What If Ford Treated Other Products Like the F150?

[Harley Lover]

I think we all agree that the F150 product is Ford's crown jewel. Because Ford has (rightly so) recognized the F150's importance, we can all see the confidence built into the product because Ford will spare no effort to make the F150 the best product in its category. Those efforts affect all areas of the product in a positive way. I don't think anyone here disputes that.

 

What if Ford applied the same approach, the same... heart - to other products in the product line? What would Ford do differently for each product? For example, Explorer. Would the next gen lose 3-400 pounds? Would it get PIH or hybrid capability? What kind of "surprise and delight" features might Ford add?

 

Same question for Escape. Same question for Edge. And so on.

 

Would Ford offer more significant refreshes than what we have been seeing?

 

I would be interested in reading your thoughts about this. The F150 shows what Ford can do when motivated. Why not do the same for other products?

[jpd80]

Consider this, Expedition has now grown to 120" wheelbase minimum.

Not saying it is but just consider the possibility of Explorer being a 116" alloy body BOF - a downwards extension of F150 Expedition?

Yeah, I know that sounds a lot like a Ford Tahoe so perhaps my Explorer is also a touch narrower too...(and think of the Aviator..)

 

I wonder if such a move to RWD AWD and using F150 power train could catapult a NG Explorer back to its former position

as most popular Ute in North America... I recon it could work and be huge home run for Ford...

 

For the rest,

3-row Edge could become the next gen replacement for the current D3 Explorer and Escape below it could grow to Equinox size.

That would open up another gap for SWB compact between Ecosport and the new larger Escape. Lots of opportunities there for

both North America and ROW markets.

Edited September 5, 2017 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

Explorer and Aviator will not be BOF, just stop with that right now.

[jpd80]

Explorer and Aviator will not be BOF, just stop with that right now.

Well he did say, what if Ford treated other products like F150......

I just thought of the obvious extension to the cash cow route....

Edited September 5, 2017 by jpd80

[Anthony]

Flip side: What if other products sold like the F-150?

[2b2]

Flip side: What if other products sold like the F-150?

egg - chicken - egg - chicken - rinse/repeat

 

with the Bronco coming ( & I haven't given up yet on 2 variants: 2d 4d )

+ thinking of Raptor-izing everything as a top-tough trim level...

 

...would anyone care if FCA took Jeep down to DavyJone's with them?

- - - - -

&

we gonna have a corollary thread for IF Fomoco cared about cars like they do about the Mustang??

[Harley Lover]

 

we gonna have a corollary thread for IF Fomoco cared about cars like they do about the Mustang??

 

I asked about "other products", so absolutely cars are in the mix. And while Ford has been treating the Mustang better lately, that has not always been the case.

[Harley Lover]

Maybe I should simplify this: in the way that Ford ensures that the F150 is best in class, what would Ford need to do to its other products to push them into that category?

[Fgts]

Maybe I should simplify this: in the way that Ford ensures that the F150 is best in class, what would Ford need to do to its other products to push them into that category?

IIRC, one story I read on to be on the S/D development team is almost paramilitary like (have to physically workout, attending monster truck shows, dress in 501 gear, etc) IMO the product shows, you get in a Focus after an S/D and can't believe it's from the same company.

 

Recently Ford split into 2 engineering groups that is just trucks and CUV/cars. As someone mentioned before I hope Ford do treat all there cars like it's a Mustang and get the fire lit underneath them.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Well he did say, what if Ford treated other products like F150......

I just thought of the obvious extension to the cash cow route....

you do it by offering best in class options, capabilities and a dynamite marketing campaign.

 

Not by reverting to 1970s construction techniques because it's cheaper.

Edited September 6, 2017 by fuzzymoomoo

[ANTAUS]

That is a good question, I will say in some scales they might be limited with "One Ford", while a product can be stellar in one region, they are left to "tweak" it for another and lose the focus on making it "best" for another because certain things don't "translate" well across ponds. F150 obviously is the poster child in N.A. in that regard. Then you have "Fusion" where for obvious reasons might not be as luxurious as Mondeo, but we have Lincoln while they don't (they have Mondeo Vignale), so I would say this question and topic would be intense and deep if you really wish to study it more...

[jasonj80]

Flip side: What if other products sold like the F-150?

There is no reason to think if the Escape wasn't class leading in every respect like the F-150 is that they wouldn't sell over 400K of them in a year. Ford had a great product in 2012 when the NG Escape launched, and was finally gaining share in a booming market. It had poor reliability, a poor crash test, a lack of updates, poor real world mileage, and way to many options -- when the updated 2017 came out it was farther behind, expensive, and looked like the old version. The sticker and option pricing seems better for the '18. But When looking at the CR-V/Rouge/CX-5 its hard to see why you'd choose an Escape other than the 2.0L ecoboost if you want to tow.

 

[tbone]

dress in 501 gear

 

 

Did you mean 511 tactical gear or did you mean Levi jeans?

 

I'll kidding aside, if we are being intellectually honest, Ford pulls out all the stops when it comes to the F series development, which they do not do the same for all the other models.

 

I understand the margins on the F series perhaps can allow for that, and there are monetary limitations in the development of the other vehicles, however I think they can do a lot better than the half assed attempts on several of the last refreshes. If they carried the same intensity in the development of those vehicles as they do the trucks, perhaps they would be at the front of all those segments instead of the middle or rear.

[2b2]

...Then you have "Fusion" where for obvious reasons might not be as luxurious as Mondeo, but we have Lincoln while they don't (they have Mondeo Vignale), so I would say this question and topic would be intense and deep if you really wish to study it more...

 

I don't know/follow enough about numbers and markets BUT

1-IF the U.S car mainstream car market is in decline BUT

2-IF the Mondeo markets elsewhere are better (relatively)

would that be reason enough to engineer the nextgen for Vignale/Lincoln level(s) of refinement??

this ^

is along the lines of a

about designing for the top-grade makes everything feel better & a better value

[ANTAUS]

And then you have examples like the current Expy, still loved by auto journalist, still wins comparos. Ecoboost, space, 3rd row seating thanks to independent suspension, has everything going for it, but lags in sales behind the Tahoenaliban. But that could be other reasons, Tahonaliban has a loyal following, more of them in rental/fleet sales. At least the timing is right to improve things with the newer one, don't think GM is going to rest on that.

 

But then we have as mentioned before, Escape, in a hot segment and sales dropping because improvements have been lackluster and mediocre. I think they gave up on the Focus once they saw the tranny issues started popping up. Taurus is in a dying segment, so I get that one. Flex didn't receive they welcoming they expected (wonder how many got fired for that). Explorer and Mustang i see they are focused on tweaking and improving so I do think they are trying with those products.

[jpd80]

you do it by offering best in class options, capabilities and a dynamite marketing campaign.

 

Not by reverting to 1970s construction techniques because it's cheaper.

Replace "because it's cheaper" with "scales of economy" and it could make sense.

 

From the outset,

I know that the NG Explorer will be unitary but it's just interesting to explore the possibilities

 

A well designed larger Unitary RWD / AWD Explorer would put Ford right at the fore front,

the construction process is not as crucial as the points you said : - capability, option & features.

 

Alloy + BOF Explorer was just a tongue in cheek bitch slap of GM's Full Sized SUV offerings and a way of

getting more larger Utiltiy production without needing another dedicated plant.by growing Explorer and Edge

but yeah, Ford could quite easily achieve all of that with a properly sized larger Unitary Explorer, that name is gold.

Edited September 6, 2017 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

Chicago is already going to need a major retool for NG Explorer/Aviator. I think investing upwards of $1 Billion into a second plant to convert it to BOF right after doing it at MAP at a cost of $900 Million+ would definitely qualify as cost prohibitive. Not to mention the hit on the CAFE numbers a BOF Explorer would surely have.

Edited September 6, 2017 by fuzzymoomoo

[jpd80]

I'm not arguing for an Alloy body Explorer, it was a way to take the piss on GM's dedicated BOF plant.

Jeep has shown that a nice large Unitary Grand Cherokee is more than acceptable, I just hope that Ford

was paying attention and runs with that idea all the way to the bank.

 

As we know the reason Ford went alloy in F truck and Full Size SUV was because they had to for future CAFE

and like you I doubt that a case could be made to spend more money than actually required on an alloy body

unless a larger Explorer was right on the limit.

 

Random thought, HT steel body for NG Explorer, is that a possibility?

 

Final thought,

Adding Focus to Hermosillo, an existing plant was going to cost close on $500 million,

gutting MAP CAP and adding new presses and stamps is going to push that figure even higher.

Not sure that it would reach $900 million but don't be surprised if it does - even with Unitary.

Edited September 6, 2017 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

I've always heard that the equipment at CAP is very old so they're only going to be able to delay a gut and rebuild for so long.

 

They're going to run into the same problem at FRAP before too long. A lot of the machinery there dates back to when they first became an assembly plant in the late 80s.

[jpd80]

I've always heard that the equipment at CAP is very old so they're only going to be able to delay a gut and rebuild for so long.

 

They're going to run into the same problem at FRAP before too long. A lot of the machinery there dates back to when they first became an assembly plant in the late 80s.

Yeah, I bet it's as flogged into the ground as Dearborn was before their gut and refit.

It all cost money but stretching out products now basically pays for some or all of that,

D3 has earned Ford a ton of money, it time to end it and go onto something much better..

 

I remember Ford sayng that switching to alloy didn't cost that much because everything had

to be replaced anyway, maybe that same reasoning allows the use of affordable HT Steel

at CAP that gives a decent reduction in weight without the use of more expensive Aluminum.

Edited September 6, 2017 by jpd80

[Jqa1824]

Why are we talking about "alloys?" Steel is an alloy. Pretty much every car on the planet is an "alloy."

[Trailhiker]

Lets start by offering REAL grill options on other vehicles. We don't need half a dozen like the F-150, but give people some self customization options.

 

Without Mercury in the fold anymore, people don't have much option if they do not like the look of the Ford. Many people bought the SABL when the ovoid re-stlyed Taurus came out. Many people prefered the look of the Cougar over the T-bird, and the same could be said for the Mountaineer and Mariner.

If you want loyal customers to stay loyal, give them choices or watch them run to the competition.

Real differentiation for trim levels is where I would start.

[silvrsvt]

Lets start by offering REAL grill options on other vehicles. We don't need half a dozen like the F-150, but give people some self customization options.

 

Without Mercury in the fold anymore, people don't have much option if they do not like the look of the Ford. Many people bought the SABL when the ovoid re-stlyed Taurus came out. Many people prefered the look of the Cougar over the T-bird, and the same could be said for the Mountaineer and Mariner.

If you want loyal customers to stay loyal, give them choices or watch them run to the competition.

Real differentiation for trim levels is where I would start.

 

Uh I think since Ford got rid of Mercury, having something just to look different isn't a good way to sell cars.

[twintornados]

Lets start by offering REAL grill options on other vehicles. We don't need half a dozen like the F-150, but give people some self customization options.

 

Without Mercury in the fold anymore, people don't have much option if they do not like the look of the Ford. Many some people bought the SABLE when the ovoid re-styled Taurus came out. Many some people preferred the look of the Cougar over the T-bird, and the same could be said for the Mountaineer and Mariner.

If you want loyal customers to stay loyal, give them choices or watch them run to the competition.

Real differentiation for trim levels is where I would start.

.

Fixed....

[jasonj80]

Chicago is already going to need a major retool for NG Explorer/Aviator. I think investing upwards of $1 Billion into a second plant to convert it to BOF right after doing it at MAP at a cost of $900 Million+ would definitely qualify as cost prohibitive. Not to mention the hit on the CAFE numbers a BOF Explorer would surely have.

http://www.nwitimes.com/business/local/ford-to-invest-million-hire-more-at-chicago-plant/article_20ac0e97-4667-5b14-a416-464ea00b66a4.html

 

Illinois was facing some major issues with the budget and increase in taxes as well as expiration of tax credits and such for investment.There is a bill to revive them that has passed the IL House and Senate but has not been signed into law by the Governor. Ford will not make an announcement in investment without that bill approved, and if the roomers are true the Explorer is all new next year Ford might be at the press conference with him signing it touting the billion dollar investment in the state.