Ford December 2017 Sales results

[jpd80]

I am reading absolutely nothing into those numbers when the new models are BARELY on lots yet...

You should because Nav and Expy started in October August/September and have been selling every one they get

in record time buyers want the new model and they are waiting for it. Sure the model mix is always rich in the beginning,

that's the way Ford always starts off but I suspect that we will see strong volumes this year.

 

problem is while Ford build 33K Super Duty and 5K Expedition, there's less than 2K production space for Navigator.

 

Edit,

I was wrong Production switched in August / September and the sell down of '17 Navigator is all but complete

with only 200 odd left with dealers so December marks the first month with mostly '18 Navigators.

Edited January 3, 2018 by jpd80

[Pioneer]

Nimitz?

 

 

Sure, we could do carrier classes.

 

Yorktown, Enterprise and Lexington.

 

There is a Ranger and Ford class, but those wouldn't be used for Lincoln.

[jpd80]

Also, when you realize that nationally, dealers only have about 2,600 Expedition in stock and 1,100 of those are '18s,

I get a very good feeling about a solid up tick in sales coming this year.

 

 

Has anyone heard any more about NG Explorer / Aviator or does that continue as the great enigma?

To me that would answer a lot of questions with missing / non-performing Lincoln Utility,

and a fresh Explorer would be insanely good..

[bzcat]

With the way the MKC is packaged in size it is closer to the Q3/X1 than the GLC/Q5/X3. That is the Issue with Lincoln's SUV's they don't really lineup with the market, MKX is smaller than the GLE/X5, and the MKC feels way smaller on the inside than even the X1 or Q3 let alone a Q5/GLC/X3. MKX is even shorter than the two row RX and will be much shorter than the 3 row. I see this being fixed when the Aviator and MKC / Nautilus successors come out over the next couple years.

 

 

I'm very familiar with both MKC and Q5 (see photo below ) and I can tell you that you are absolutely off the mark. MKC was within an inch of previous gen Q5 in all dimensions inside and out and substantially larger than Q3 or X1. When the MKC came out, it was right in the middle of the market in terms of size but since that time, Q5, GLC, X3, and XC60 have been updated and they are all about 1.5" longer than before so MKC is now on the smaller side in the segment. There is no doubt MKC is cheaper than Q5/X3/GLC but it is not significantly smaller. It is priced similarly to RDX, NX, and XC60... a little below the Germans. I do agree that when the next gen MKC (or whatever it will be called) arrives will probably be just as big as the new Q5 again.

 

 

 

Just like the MKC, MKX (*Nautilus) is right stab in the middle of the competitive set (of 5 seat luxury SUV) in terms of size. And just for the record, it is not entirely obvious that RX is the biggest one in the class... it is longer but also the narrowest and has the shortest wheelbase. Notice in the stats below... MKX is the only one that to have either the highest or lowest number in any key exterior dimensions... Whether you rank these vehicles by length, width, height or wheelbase, MKX will come out in the middle somewhere. Do you think that is a coincidence? It's obvious that Ford designed it that way intentionally.

 

L x W x H / Wheelbase

GLE 189" x 75.8" x 70.7" / 114.8"

XT5 189.6" x 74.9" x 65.9" / 112.5"

MKX 190" x 76.2" x 66.2" / 112.2"

X5 192.4" x 76.3" x 69.4" / 115.5"

RX 192.5" x 74.6" x 67.7" / 109.8"

 

Next gen Nautilus could have optional 7 seats around 195" long while the 5 seats version should maintain the current size but styled to be more like a coupe.

 

Aviator probably should be even bigger... around 200" long.

Edited January 4, 2018 by bzcat

[fuzzymoomoo]

Has anyone heard any more about NG Explorer / Aviator or does that continue as the great enigma?

To me that would answer a lot of questions with missing / non-performing Lincoln Utility,

and a fresh Explorer would be insanely good..

All I know for sure is Aviator is a 2020 model and mules should be making an appearance soon-ish.

 

The only question is if NG Explorer is going to be launched a year earlier as in the case of 2015 Edge/2016 MKX or at the same time as in 2018 Expy/Navi.

[bzcat]

We've already seen Explorer mules so that points to it coming out first. So 2019 model? So we should be it at Chicago or NY Auto Show...?

[fuzzymoomoo]

We've already seen Explorer mules so that points to it coming out first. So 2019 model? So we should be it at Chicago or NY Auto Show...?

Those were platform mules with current bodies on them

[jpd80]

Those were platform mules with current bodies on them

Those Attribute prototypes can also serve as early HVAC mules gaining a lot of data early,

given Explorer's strong sales, i wonder if new body is not to different to what we have now.

 

Is Ford preparing it other profit engine room (RWD Explorer) for a spectacular relaunch.....

Edited January 4, 2018 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

Those Attribute prototypes can also serve as early HVAC mules gaining a lot of data early,

given Explorer's strong sales, i wonder if new body is not to different to what we have now.

 

Is Ford preparing it other profit engine room (RWD Explorer) for a spectacular relaunch.....

They were literally current bodies riding on the new CD6 platform as PD confirmed.

 

To your point, the Aviator drawing I saw tells me the general shape of the Explorer isnt likely to change a whole lot from what it is now.

Edited January 4, 2018 by fuzzymoomoo

[rmc523]

They were literally current bodies riding on the new CD6 platform as PD confirmed.

 

To your point, the Aviator drawing I saw tells me the general shape of the Explorer isnt likely to change a whole lot from what it is now.

 

I mean, can they really change it that much anyway?

 

Those Attribute prototypes can also serve as early HVAC mules gaining a lot of data early,

given Explorer's strong sales, i wonder if new body is not to different to what we have now.

 

Is Ford preparing it other profit engine room (RWD Explorer) for a spectacular relaunch.....

 

My overlay showed it was a RWD vehicle.

[jasonj80]

 

 

I'm very familiar with both MKC and Q5 (see photo below ) and I can tell you that you are absolutely off the mark. MKC was within an inch of previous gen Q5 in all dimensions inside and out and substantially larger than Q3 or X1. When the MKC came out, it was right in the middle of the market in terms of size but since that time, Q5, GLC, X3, and XC60 have been updated and they are all about 1.5" longer than before so MKC is now on the smaller side in the segment. There is no doubt MKC is cheaper than Q5/X3/GLC but it is not significantly smaller. It is priced similarly to RDX, NX, and XC60... a little below the Germans. I do agree that when the next gen MKC (or whatever it will be called) arrives will probably be just as big as the new Q5 again.

 

 

 

 

Just like the MKC, MKX (*Nautilus) is right stab in the middle of the competitive set (of 5 seat luxury SUV) in terms of size. And just for the record, it is not entirely obvious that RX is the biggest one in the class... it is longer but also the narrowest and has the shortest wheelbase. Notice in the stats below... MKX is the only one that to have either the highest or lowest number in any key exterior dimensions... Whether you rank these vehicles by length, width, height or wheelbase, MKX will come out in the middle somewhere. Do you think that is a coincidence? It's obvious that Ford designed it that way intentionally.

 

L x W x H / Wheelbase

GLE 189" x 75.8" x 70.7" / 114.8"

XT5 189.6" x 74.9" x 65.9" / 112.5"

MKX 190" x 76.2" x 66.2" / 112.2"

X5 192.4" x 76.3" x 69.4" / 115.5"

RX 192.5" x 74.6" x 67.7" / 109.8"

 

Next gen Nautilus could have optional 7 seats around 195" long while the 5 seats version should maintain the current size but styled to be more like a coupe.

 

Aviator probably should be even bigger... around 200" long.

Sorry shoikd have clarified a bit more. I was surprised how much smaller the MKC and MKX feel on the inside and that is a design issue. Im only 61 and no one could sit behind me in the MKC. I do really like the MKX form some angles, they got much better in fit and finish after the first model year though the back seat still has a few cheap bits.( like an actual climate control system adjustment)

 

The MKC to me looks bigger on the outside than on the inside. The cargo area on the MKC also seems very small compared to even the Escape.

 

Also seeing this photo make me realize how much similar they are in some ways.

Edited January 4, 2018 by jasonj80

[fuzzymoomoo]

Im only 61 and no one could sit behind me in the MKC.

Thats a problem with every single Ford C-platform vehicle

[02MustangGT]

NG Explorer should be the big surprise at NAIAS.

[jpd80]

NG Explorer should be the big surprise at NAIAS.

Yes please, bring it on.

[ice-capades]

As I recall the ads I saw, while Chebbie was giving everybody employee pricing and Fiasco was dumping piles of cash on the hoods of their vehicles, Ford was only offering 0% financing. I don't recall seeing anything else from Ford or Lincoln.

 

Same here. Ford relied on just the 0% financing and did nothing for year end incentives.

[jpd80]

 

Same here. Ford relied on just the 0% financing and did nothing for year end incentives.

Must be hard selling an all too similar vehicle to return buyers and explaining why it now costs much more..

 

Doubly so tfor Lincoln Utility buyers especially now that they know the new grilles are on the way....

Edited January 4, 2018 by jpd80

[rmc523]

 

Same here. Ford relied on just the 0% financing and did nothing for year end incentives.

 

It sounds like their incentive spending/programs has/have been terrible since Mulally left. Sounds like everything that worked was thrown out the door for who knows why?

[Pioneer]

 

Same here. Ford relied on just the 0% financing and did nothing for year end incentives.

They were pretty nice on the Escape. Nice enough for me to take the loss on a 14 month old 2017 and trade up to a 2018.

[Kev-Mo]

Toyota, meanwhile, is claiming that the Camry recently scored its "best-ever sales month" in December with 43,331 units sold.

 

The scientific conclusion that can be drawn from this is: The more body creases and sharp angles in the grille - to the point of hideousness, the more your cars will sell! Yes, you too Honda Accord!

[grbeck]

The new Camry, yes, but the new Accord is not an ugly car.

[silvrsvt]

 

It sounds like their incentive spending/programs has/have been terrible since Mulally left. Sounds like everything that worked was thrown out the door for who knows why?

 

Given what has been coming out of Ford as of late makes me really wonder if anything truly changed-people where just biding their time till he left to revert back to the "Old" Ford

[silvrsvt]

The new Camry, yes, but the new Accord is not an ugly car.

 

Its not a pretty car either...looks like a hatchback here

 

[akirby]

 

Given what has been coming out of Ford as of late makes me really wonder if anything truly changed-people where just biding their time till he left to revert back to the "Old" Ford

 

I think that might be true if Fields simply allowed people to go back to their old ways and didn't provide top down direction and demand compliance. However I get the feeling that Fields was actually driving a lot of these decisions - just in a completely different direction than Mulally. Either way it's his responsibility.

[Kev-Mo]

 

Its not a pretty car either...looks like a hatchback here

 

 

Agreed - Not a pretty car. Trying way too hard, a la Camry. Like an aged Hollywood Actress after her 30th plastic surgery -just keep pulling and stretching and creasing...but apparently it works for the masses.

 

I recently rented a well appointed Fusion Ecoboost - everyone who came near that car complimented it and the performance was outstanding. I find it extremely hard to believe that this Honda or a Camry is in any way a better car than the Fusion. Maybe a bit more room in the back seat, but "better" - I'm not buying that. I think that Honda and Toyota have the luxury of their customers not cross-shopping. They simply go to a Toyota or Honda Dealer on a Saturday and buy a car. They have no idea what else even exists.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Kev-Mo

[akirby]

 

Agreed - Not a pretty car. Trying way too hard, a la Camry. Like an aged Hollywood Actress after her 30th plastic surgery -just keep pulling and stretching and creasing...but apparently it works for the masses.

 

I recently rented a well appointed Fusion Ecoboost - everyone who came near that car complimented it and the performance was outstanding. I find it extremely hard to believe that this Honda or a Camry is in any way a better car than the Fusion. Maybe a bit more room in the back seat, but "better" - I'm not buying that. I think that Honda and Toyota have the luxury of their customers not cross-shopping. They simply go to a Toyota or Honda Dealer on a Saturday and buy a car. They have no idea what else even exists.

 

But they probably would cross shop if the Camcord they were looking at was exactly like their 6 yr old model that they currently own. You don't get past 200K units without a lot of repeat buyers and you don't get those unless you change the tophat to at least make it look and feel different.