jpd80 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 There are more freestanding Caddy dealers than Lincoln. Now show me an Acura/Honda or Lexus/Toyota dealer in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 (edited) I understand that it's harder to sell Lincoln products side by side with Ford product but it doesn't seem to bother Ford, maybe they prefer more profitable sales going to Ford and actually rig the game to make sure it does. Elsewhere in the world, Multi-franchises on the one dealership are very popular and doesn't seem to affect respective brand sales but i get that the US takes a while to catch on... Nearly Half Of Cadillac Dealers Sold Less Than 50 Cars Last Yearby Sean Szymkowski — Jan 18, 2018 The Detroit Free Press reported on Tuesday that de Nysschen said half of its dealers reported the minimal sales figures. Cadillac currently operates 924 dealerships across the United States; 463 dealers sold less than 50 cars. The Cadillac President has carefully worked to include smaller dealerships in future plans without overwhelming them with the need for more investments. Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/01/nearly-half-of-cadillac-dealers-sold-less-than-50-cars-last-year/#ixzz58obxGPca Edited March 4, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 There are more freestanding Caddy dealers than Lincoln. Now show me an Acura/Honda or Lexus/Toyota dealer in the US. Show me an Acura or Lexus dealer that existed before 1986. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 What's different enough to convince a customer to choose the Nautilus? Revel Audio (two levels) More comfortable seats (this is what sold us) Upgraded interior materials Black Label More sound deadening Push button transmission Better warranty, free pickup and delivery for all service CCD Suspension LED headlamps 360 degree camera Adaptive HID headlamps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Revel Audio (two levels) More comfortable seats (this is what sold us) Upgraded interior materials Black Label More sound deadening Push button transmission Better warranty, free pickup and delivery for all service CCD Suspension LED headlamps 360 degree camera Adaptive HID headlamps All true, but those are mostly for a Reserve or Black Label customer. Edge has the new B & O system, 360 camera, wireless charging, WiFi hotspot and I'm pretty sure LED headlamps.A customer shopping Premier to lower end Select will probably be seeing same engine choices, both seat 5, both have same cargo layout. That type of customer probably has price closer to the top of their list instead of a few more features. I like the Nautilus, but I would be buying Reserve or Black Label and price is further down my priority list. With the products soon to be released, Id probably be most enthusiastic about the Edge ST because its different and will be more powerful than the Edge Elite or Nautilus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Show me an Acura or Lexus dealer that existed before 1986. Why should that matter to a Customer? Part of owning a luxury vehicle is a luxury experience both at the time of sale and service. For most Lincoln stores you dont get that. Both our local Lexus and Acura stores have built ground up replacement stores within the last decade. My Mom has had nothing but Lexus vehicles (mixture of RX/GX) since the first model year RX (99?). Shes due to replace her RX, but has grown tired of Lexus marginally updating their vehicles, and would like something bigger. My parents stopped at the local Ford/Lincoln store primarily to look at the Explorer Platinum and the salesman was rude and was missing a tooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 All true, but those are mostly for a Reserve or Black Label customer. Edge has the new B & O system B&O is the same as the old Sony system and nowhere near the Revel system in sound quality. You didn’t qualify your statement as to trim level. There are plenty of reasons to upgrade to Nautilus if you care about luxury features and comfort/quality. There are also plenty of people who would be just as happy in an Edge Titanium. Doesn’t mean Nautilus is redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Why should that matter to a Customer? Part of owning a luxury vehicle is a luxury experience both at the time of sale and service. For most Lincoln stores you dont get that. Both our local Lexus and Acura stores have built ground up replacement stores within the last decade. My Mom has had nothing but Lexus vehicles (mixture of RX/GX) since the first model year RX (99?). Shes due to replace her RX, but has grown tired of Lexus marginally updating their vehicles, and would like something bigger. My parents stopped at the local Ford/Lincoln store primarily to look at the Explorer Platinum and the salesman was rude and was missing a tooth. I guess you missed the point but you actually explained it later in your answer. Because those were new brands and because there weren’t a lot of pre-existing Honda, Toyota or Nissan dealers (compared to Ford or GM dealers) it was easy for them to demand separate dealerships. Ford/Lincoln dealerships date back to the 50s/60s and even older way before separation was an issue. And Ford can’t force dealers to change. Had Ford killed Lincoln and started a new brand they too could have demanded new dealerships and a different experience. But they’re stuck with the old dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 We had an outstanding freestanding Lincoln dealer until Ford killed it. Lincoln ended up with the Ford store I go twenty miles out of my way to avoid (my dealer unfortunately doesnt sell Lincoln). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Had Ford killed Lincoln and started a new brand they too could have demanded new dealerships and a different experience. But theyre stuck with the old dealers. The stores that the local Acura and Lexus replaced are newer than the Lincoln store that remains. Why should the fact that Ford seemingly has its hands tied matter to a customer? I know Lexus would treat me better, but you know poor Ford has no choice but to treat me worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 The stores that the local Acura and Lexus replaced are newer than the Lincoln store that remains. Why should the fact that Ford seemingly has its hands tied matter to a customer? I know Lexus would treat me better, but you know poor Ford has no choice but to treat me worse. <sigh> Nobody said it should matter to customers. You said that you never see Honda/Acura dealers and I was simply explaining why. If Honda and Acura brands existed back in the 50s like Ford and Lincoln you would absolutely see Honda/Acura dealers today. It may sound like an excuse that Ford can’t control dealers but it’s true. Blame state legislators for protecting dealerships. All Ford can do is ask, beg, plead or offer financial assistance. What do you think Ford should do that isn’t illegal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Im not saying Ford can or should do anything- just explaining that one reason to buy an RDX/MDX, NX/RX over a Honda or Toyota is the dealership experience. For most the Lincoln dealer experience is that of Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 In some cases, yes. But my Ford/Lincoln dealer picks up my Lincoln and brings it back for oil changes and other service and drops off a loaner. The waiting room isn’t super fancy but I never have to go there in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosetang Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Just had an ABSURDLY BAD experience at a Ford dealership, given that it's one of the largest nearby I'm rather shocked at how many people must be putting up with their nonsense every day. But it was not also a Lincoln, so at least they're not dragging both brands down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Just had an ABSURDLY BAD experience at a Ford dealership, given that it's one of the largest nearby I'm rather shocked at how many people must be putting up with their nonsense every day. But it was not also a Lincoln, so at least they're not dragging both brands down. I find my dealer to be very hit and miss when it comes to experiences, yet it one of the largest in town Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I find my dealer to be very hit and miss when it comes to experiences, yet it one of the largest in town My local dealer is huge and awful. I go to a smaller dealer twenty miles from my house (bought both the Flex and Edge there). They built a new store two years ago and their staff are awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 My local dealer is huge and awful. I go to a smaller dealer twenty miles from my house (bought both the Flex and Edge there). They built a new store two years ago and their staff are awesome. Probably going to switch when the time comes. Theres one thats literally within walking distance of my house were going to check out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Probably going to switch when the time comes. Theres one thats literally within walking distance of my house were going to check out I lucked out - the dealer I use had our Flex in stock, which is the only reason we originally went there. We were so happy with the whole experience we stuck with them for service and ultimately bought our Edge there too. I think part of it is its the familys only dealership so its run like a family business. The megalowmart Ford near my house is one of probably a dozen stores in that dealer network. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 As much as my dealer can come and drop off and pick up and all that, I actually enjoy going to the waiting lounge of my Lincoln dealership to just people watch. I'll do emails on my laptop, and just absorb whats going around. The employees there like my humor so they are already used to me walking in "Well this looks like heavens waiting room"... secretary loves watching what comes out of my mouth. Then I love hearing the "Oh my car has been total crapI have been coming here so many times to fix it"...then I ask the "service advisor", "What is wrong with Moses car?": hes like "His Grand Marquis has over 290K miles, he's upset because he had to replace the alternator once again"...so yeah it's interesting people watching... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 B&O is the same as the old Sony system and nowhere near the Revel system in sound quality. You didn’t qualify your statement as to trim level. There are plenty of reasons to upgrade to Nautilus if you care about luxury features and comfort/quality. There are also plenty of people who would be just as happy in an Edge Titanium. Doesn’t mean Nautilus is redundant. From post #41. Today, both offer pretty much the same features and for a customer looking at the MKX Select or lower may find the Premium Edge models nice enough. This would especially hold true if interest rates climb as some are predicting. I'm not saying the Nautilus is redundant. I'd buy it because I like all of those fancy features, but I'm far from practical when choosing a vehicle. At my age and the limited amount of driving I do,I really need an Ecosport but want a Raptor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 XT5 and Equinox are on different platforms. I knew I'd get them wrong, as I can't keep up with GM's Greek alphabet that changes every other year. XT5 is related to GMC Arcadia, Chevrolet Traverse and Buick Enclave...(E2xx replaces Theta Premium) while Equinox is related to Buick Envision and GMC Terain ( D2xx replaces Delta II and Theta) we're getting off track with the point that rmc523 was trying to convey, Lincoln Select Vs similar priced Ford Titanium variant don't have the same equipment/ features you don't get all that much on an entry level Lincoln yet, people still buy the Lincoln version. Lincoln's premium pricing is exactly why we see 15,000 Edge sales and only 2,000 MKX sales. This. My point was all across GM (and other brands), there's a "regular" brand equivalent to the luxury brand model, all with pricing structured the same way. So let's not pretend that Ford is doing something out of the ordinary. All true, but those are mostly for a Reserve or Black Label customer. Edge has the new B & O system, 360 camera, wireless charging, WiFi hotspot and I'm pretty sure LED headlamps.A customer shopping Premier to lower end Select will probably be seeing same engine choices, both seat 5, both have same cargo layout. That type of customer probably has price closer to the top of their list instead of a few more features. I like the Nautilus, but I would be buying Reserve or Black Label and price is further down my priority list. With the products soon to be released, Id probably be most enthusiastic about the Edge ST because its different and will be more powerful than the Edge Elite or Nautilus. Aside from styling, even base model Lincolns have additional sound deadening, different suspension tuning, etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) Well, the new Equinox makes the Escape look like a 1990 Escort. Need a new one ASAP. And the Eco Sport is a quick fix, but needs new version, too. Edited March 7, 2018 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) The moral to the story is that Ford either defends its older products with decent incentives and competitive lending rates or gets new product onto the market. Not doing either means sales suffer in car and utility segments where Ford could and should be doing better. Mind you, GM's big drop in sales came mainly from large Trucks, that's gotta hurt revenue and profit. GM is going to be all over the place with full size truck run out and plant changeovers this year, it's a great opportunity for F Series to really take advantage of the situation and get even more sales. Edited March 7, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadicalX Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 When will the new MKZ successor? The rear of the MKZ is seen, no change, five years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 When will the new MKZ successor? The rear of the MKZ is seen, no change, five years ago Around the same time as the Fusion, so hopefully no more than 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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