ehaase Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 RMC just posts too much. He's not the expert that akirby, PremierDrum, Fuzzymoomoo, and JPD80 are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02MustangGT Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 There is considerable evidence from Wrangler and pickups that most buyers want 4 doors not 2. Thats not an opinion, its a fact. Huh? Citation needed...probowler said he would like to see a 4 door with rear suicides. Why wouldnt that sell. Tell me ole wise one? And dont cite the FJ Cruiser as evidence. That was 5+ years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) There is considerable evidence from Wrangler and pickups that most buyers want 4 doors not 2. Thats not an opinion, its a fact. Well i would like a long wheel-base 2 door...heep only made em 2 years and demand is high, prices used are high when you can find em....but yea 4 doors sell.....i would bet only 15ish of bronc owners opt for 2 door..i blame the city folk fir this..98% of heep owners have never even so much as went down a woods trail.... Edited March 16, 2018 by snooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 RMC just posts too much. He's not the expert that akirby, PremierDrum, Fuzzymoomoo, and JPD80 are. Ha.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 RMC just posts too much. He's not the expert that akirby, PremierDrum, Fuzzymoomoo, and JPD80 are. Im flattered but Im far from an expert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 There is considerable evidence from Wrangler and pickups that most buyers want 4 doors not 2. Thats not an opinion, its a fact. Huh? Citation needed...probowler said he would like to see a 4 door with rear suicides. Why wouldnt that sell. Tell me ole wise one? And dont cite the FJ Cruiser as evidence. That was 5+ years ago. Its fact that the majority of Wranglers sold today are 4 door unlimited models. Ill look up the chart when I get home from work in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02MustangGT Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Im all for posting up insider information but this cool guy club on the other hand...I respect Fuzzy and Deanh because they actually work for Ford (or dealer). I have a brother-in-law that works in robotics/automaton in the automotive industry. For BMW, Benz, Chrysler, Ford, etc. I have insider information as well. Do I post it here as fact? No...thats my choice. Some folks here think they own Ford and know the market, with zero facts to back it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02MustangGT Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Yep not disputing the fact that 4 door Wranglers sell more than 2 doors. Thats not the point Fuzzy. The point is what about a 4 door Bronco with rear suicide doors. Whats wrong with that? Nothing...it would be the only vehicle of its kind in the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Well i would like a long wheel-base 2 door...heep only made em 2 years and demand is high, prices used are high when you can find em....but yea 4 doors sell.....i would bet only 15ish of bronc owners opt for 2 door..i blame the city folk fir this..98% of heep owners have never even so much as went down a woods trail.... Like I said, Ill find the chart when I get home from work in the morning, but you can probably use the Wrangler numbers to get an idea of what the market for a 2 door Bronco will be. I have a hard time thinking that 2 different wheelbases would be built seeing as the Ranger has the same wheelbase in both of its configurations, but I suppose its possible. As an example, my 2 door 2008 Focus is nearly identical to the 4 door version in dimension, with the difference being the length of the doors to compensate the 2 missing doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Yep not disputing the fact that 4 door Wranglers sell more than 2 doors. Thats not the point Fuzzy. The point is what about a 4 door Bronco with rear suicide doors. Whats wrong with that? Nothing...it would be the only vehicle of its kind in the market. And thats probably why it wont get made, too many questions as to what the demand really would be. Its a huge risk in development cost for potentially not that big of a return. Clearly the numbers make sense for a traditional 2 and 4 door offering. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) FJ Cruiser had them but T6 already has them on the Ranger Supercab so not a big stretch to develop for Bronco Not saying that Bronco will have suicide doors, but the tech is available Just like four doors from Ranger and Everest are available Edited March 16, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Crazy idea, what about a 3 door like the old Mazda RX-8? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 RMC just posts too much. He's not the expert that akirby, PremierDrum, Fuzzymoomoo, and JPD80 are. Ok bud.... So because I'm active on the board and interested in the company, I post too much and am not an "expert", as if I contribute nothing? I've contributed plenty of information with news and tidbits from the few sources I have. You have a problem with my activity on here, put me on your ignore list if you don't like my posts. I love how there are about 4 or 5 members here who make statements that are actually opinions...but its posted as is if its a fact. Like RMC. No. It wouldnt be very popular. Nobody wants them anymore. Yes, in your opinion because YOU have zero interest. That does not equate to EVERYONE. You're right. That's why every manufacturer has 2 door with suicide doors available. That's why Ford considered dropping the suicide doors on the F-150 with the last redesign - because everyone wants them! That's why GM offers them on their trucks....oh wait, they don't. Toyota....nope. I shouldn't have used the word "nobody". Sure, there's a buyer for everyone, but that doesn't mean it makes sense for Ford to offer it. If a reasonable amount of buyers wanted it (enough to make it worth developing), it would be offered. Obviously Ford and 99% of the rest of the industry feel that offering that type of setup isn't worth offering. The reality is, most Broncos won't even go offroad, and most buyers would prefer the everyday usefulness of 4 full doors compared to having a suicide door setup. My point is - 4-doors with suicide setup has been tried, and 4-full doors have vastly won out where both have been offered. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Crazy idea, what about a 3 door like the old Mazda RX-8? Just imagine MAP workers building one side as a two door and the other side as a four door 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 And thats probably why it wont get made, too many questions as to what the demand really would be. Its a huge risk in development cost for potentially not that big of a return. Clearly the numbers make sense for a traditional 2 and 4 door offering. Ford is often very risk averse, and they have a massively successful example of Wrangler, which offers both 2 and 4 door models, the latter of which vastly outsells the former. Why try to reinvent the wheel with some hybrid suicide door setup when your closest competitor has a proven formula that works. They'd, IMO, be severely limiting their market appeal going with suicide doors vs. 4 full doors. Another thing to consider with Bronco - does it have a removable top? How would that affect a suicide door setup? (I don't know, just throwing out thoughts). Also crash test ratings - a suicide setup would make passing crash tests more difficult and expensive. Now, 02MustangGT, had you argued for a 4-door suicide setup (instead of a straight 2 door), alongside a full 4 door, I could definitely get behind that idea, as THAT is a unique offering that could make the "2" door (suicide) more appealing. But a suicide vs full 4 door setup, the full setup wins hands down for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) Not sure you can easily downsize a design meant for a BOF T6 platform onto a smaller short C transverse engine crossover, but I guess anything is possible. I still think this will be in addition to the short C crossover and will be on T6. But Ive been wrong before. At least once. I think. Or maybe Im mistaken about that...... Perhaps the design was never BOF - the ancient Bronco concept wasn't. The Bronco mini could be based on a Bronco concept from before the plan of using T6 was a lock. Edited March 16, 2018 by sullynd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02MustangGT Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Thanks RMC for clarifying your opinion and providing some useful information. There is still a debate to be had here. The suicide option for rear doors could work in one of the 2 new off-road capable suvs. Not everyone, but how about a 2 door with rear access cab like doors. Similar to what was introduced in the 2004 F150 regular cab. Not sure it would work with the design, but could be a unique feature for the vehicle class. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 It’s pretty simple - there is no evidence anywhere to support a supercab style setup in between the 2 door and 4 door or as an alternative to the 4 door. The only reason Ford, GM and RAM can get away with it on full sized pickups is volume. The percentage of supercab sales is pretty low but because Ford sells almost 1M trucks a year that’s still a big number. If you apply that percentage to Bronco which probably won’t sell more than 75K - 100K/year or 1/10 it’s a very small number. This is just simple logic. Saying a supercab would be neat or that you like it is an opinion. Saying it would sell well is not an opinion and is not backed up by any other relevant facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Just imagine MAP workers building one side as a two door and the other side as a four door The suicide doors for the Supercab Ranger supposedly wont be built up on door line. Not sure how thats supposed to work, I guess Ill find out whenever I get called back to work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Perhaps the design was never BOF - the ancient Bronco concept wasn't. The Bronco mini could be based on a Bronco concept from before the plan of using T6 was a lock.’ I think the current Bronco was always T6 because it was based on sharing the platform and factory with Ranger. It’s certainly possible to switch the design to unibody and make it smaller, I’m just saying that doesn’t always work with certain designs. I’m about 50/50 right now as to which way I think it will go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Thanks RMC for clarifying your opinion and providing some useful information. There is still a debate to be had here. The suicide option for rear doors could work in one of the 2 new off-road capable suvs. Not everyone, but how about a 2 door with rear access cab like doors. Similar to what was introduced in the 2004 F150 regular cab. Not sure it would work with the design, but could be a unique feature for the vehicle class. I agree it would be a unique and neat feature. But ask yourself why Ranger, Colorado and Canyon and Wrangler don’t come with a supercab option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I agree it would be a unique and neat feature. But ask yourself why Ranger, Colorado and Canyon and Wrangler dont come with a supercab option.????? Ranger Colorado and Canyon all do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 The suicide doors for the Supercab Ranger supposedly wont be built up on door line. Not sure how thats supposed to work, I guess Ill find out whenever I get called back to work. OK I just realized there is a supercab ranger but no regular cab. In that case I’ll say a supercab bronco would be slightly more viable but I still don’t think the take rate would be high enough to warrant the trouble to build it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 ????? Ranger Colorado and Canyon all do I got confused with Regular cabs. My mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 The preview Ford showed wasn't big enough for 4-doors, so what are we thinking, a stretched LWB version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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