Note to Ford: No cars on showroom floor means less SUV sales

[akirby]

The Edge and Fusion with the same engine would be a better comparison.

27 vs. 24 combined. Still not a significant difference.

 

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39294&id=39545

[fordmantpw]

27 vs. 24 combined. Still not a significant difference.

 

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39294&id=39545

 

If you drive on average 15k miles/year, that's a difference of 70 gallons of fuel a year between the two vehicles. If gas prices were to double and instantly shoot from $2.50 to $5/gallon, the difference in the increased gas prices between the two would be $15/month. Peanuts when compared to a new car payment.

[atomcat68]

 

If you drive on average 15k miles/year, that's a difference of 70 gallons of fuel a year between the two vehicles. If gas prices were to double and instantly shoot from $2.50 to $5/gallon, the difference in the increased gas prices between the two would be $15/month. Peanuts when compared to a new car payment.

 

But yet, that's why some people will pick import cars over Ford. Even we on this website have berated ford for not getting the fuel economy of competitors for the same difference. I still think it would have been better for Ford to keep at least one sedan model.

 

A while ago I was a car salesman, and I've had a couple of customers choose a competitor car for a payment of one dollar a month less.

[fordmantpw]

 

But yet, that's why some people will pick import cars over Ford. Even we on this website have berated ford for not getting the fuel economy of competitors for the same difference. I still think it would have been better for Ford to keep at least one sedan model.

 

While that is true, is it worth it if you aren't making any (much) money? And they are keeping the Focus, which is just a sedan on (very small) stilts.

 

 

 

A while ago I was a car salesman, and I've had a couple of customers choose a competitor car for a payment of one dollar a month less.

 

Well, there's just nothing you can do for those folks. It very well may have been 60 months instead of 48 too. Those people you just can't win over, no matter what you do...

[Joe771476]

Gentlemen.....All your points are well taken, but I also wonder about how they'll meet CAFE standards without the higher MPG cars. Actually I really don't care about CAFE standards and Trump is trying to lessen the MPG burden on the mfrs. anyway. Bottom line is all I care about is Ford prospering, and I just don't think it's a good move. I hope I'm wrong! But while I think about it, today's MPG ratings really don't impress me. With all the technology, they really haven't improved significantly. I could eke out on a good day 31 MPG on secondary 45 MPH average speed roads with a 1985 Cadillac 4.1 L V8 (I inherited, never would have bought one) and my 2001 Taurus V6. My wife -- against my wishes -- leased a 1996 Nissan Sentra for like $150 a month and THEY paid the property taxes, so I couldn't blame her! But I got 52 MPG with that car; it had something like a free wheeling 5th gear where the RPM's would drop to like 1000. Today's MPG ratings are nothing to brag about.

[rmc523]

Gentlemen.....All your points are well taken, but I also wonder about how they'll meet CAFE standards without the higher MPG cars. Actually I really don't care about CAFE standards and Trump is trying to lessen the MPG burden on the mfrs. anyway. Bottom line is all I care about is Ford prospering, and I just don't think it's a good move. I hope I'm wrong! But while I think about it, today's MPG ratings really don't impress me. With all the technology, they really haven't improved significantly. I could eke out on a good day 31 MPG on secondary 45 MPH average speed roads with a 1985 Cadillac 4.1 L V8 (I inherited, never would have bought one) and my 2001 Taurus V6. My wife -- against my wishes -- leased a 1996 Nissan Sentra for like $150 a month and THEY paid the property taxes, so I couldn't blame her! But I got 52 MPG with that car; it had something like a free wheeling 5th gear where the RPM's would drop to like 1000. Today's MPG ratings are nothing to brag about.

 

By having larger vehicles, the standards to reach are lower.

 

Also, along with the technology, there's also a lot of additional safety and creature comforts built into the vehicles, which add a lot of weight, which mean lower MPGs.

[Deanh]

hybris and BEV drivetrains will give Fords upcoming armada better mileage than the sedans they have today...so moot point really. Sedans only advantages are possibly weight and Aero....

[akirby]

Gentlemen.....All your points are well taken, but I also wonder about how they'll meet CAFE standards without the higher MPG cars. Actually I really don't care about CAFE standards and Trump is trying to lessen the MPG burden on the mfrs. anyway. Bottom line is all I care about is Ford prospering, and I just don't think it's a good move. I hope I'm wrong! But while I think about it, today's MPG ratings really don't impress me. With all the technology, they really haven't improved significantly. I could eke out on a good day 31 MPG on secondary 45 MPH average speed roads with a 1985 Cadillac 4.1 L V8 (I inherited, never would have bought one) and my 2001 Taurus V6. My wife -- against my wishes -- leased a 1996 Nissan Sentra for like $150 a month and THEY paid the property taxes, so I couldn't blame her! But I got 52 MPG with that car; it had something like a free wheeling 5th gear where the RPM's would drop to like 1000. Today's MPG ratings are nothing to brag about.

Did you miss the part about every vehicle being a hybrid and/or plug in hybrid or BEV? If you replace a 24 mpg Fusion and a 28 mpg Focus with a 35-40 mpg hybrid utility I don’t see the CAFE problem.

[akirby]

If you take that 85 Cadillac and make it meet today’s emissions and crash standards you won’t see anywhere close to 31 mpg. Nor would it have half the power of today’s vehicles.

[Deanh]

I had a 69 beetle that got 40 mpgs...wouldnt pass a single test of ANY sort today....but MAN do I miss the honest simplicity

Edited May 4, 2018 by Deanh

[jpd80]

Gentlemen.....All your points are well taken, but I also wonder about how they'll meet CAFE standards without the higher MPG cars. Actually I really don't care about CAFE standards and Trump is trying to lessen the MPG burden on the mfrs. anyway. Bottom line is all I care about is Ford prospering, and I just don't think it's a good move. I hope I'm wrong!

Cars and Trucks/Utilities are treated very differently under CAFE.

The 54 mpg scare number often quoted by the press is exactly that, a raw figure used in legislation

that needs to be converted to the window sticker that applies to compact cars up to a set footprint

as defined by track x wheelbase in cu ft. That 54mpg figure becomes roughly 45 mpg but it only

applies to those smaller cars, not all the other vehicles in a manufacturer's showroom.

 

It is indeed that very toughness of CAFE towards car fuel economy that's encouraging manufacturers

to drop them and head to more profitable Utilities and crossovers with less fuel economy concerns.

Bottom line is that the more cars Ford gives up, the easier it will be for it to meet CAFE in the future.

 

But while I think about it, today's MPG ratings really don't impress me. With all the technology, they really haven't improved significantly. I could eke out on a good day 31 MPG on secondary 45 MPH average speed roads with a 1985 Cadillac 4.1 L V8 (I inherited, never would have bought one) and my 2001 Taurus V6. My wife -- against my wishes -- leased a 1996 Nissan Sentra for like $150 a month and THEY paid the property taxes, so I couldn't blame her! But I got 52 MPG with that car; it had something like a free wheeling 5th gear where the RPM's would drop to like 1000. Today's MPG ratings are nothing to brag about.

CAFE highway mileage is not done at a steady state and is far from the optimal you'll get on light cruise

For example, the highway CAFE rating for the '85 Cadillac 4.1 L is 22 mpg and the 96 Sentra is 36 mpg.

Edited May 5, 2018 by jpd80

[2005Explorer]

I'll wait and see how it all shakes out, but I still think Ford should still offer a Fusion and a Focus sedan. I'm fine with cutting the Taurus and Fiesta. Small and midsize car demand will increase if fuel gets expensive again. Some on here only talk about trying to move Ford upscale in terms of vehicles that are more expensive, but many times if you can sell an economical vehicle to a young person there is a much better chance they will be back to buy a more expensive SUV or truck when they are older and better off financially. If you let Chevy, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, etc. own the market for smaller, less expensive cars there is no guarantee when they have a family or are more financially stable they will automatically ditch the brand that served them well to buy a Ford. Ford still is and always will be a mainstream auto-brand. Going away from being a full line manufacturer might backfire on them. I'm not saying everything they are doing is wrong, but they should proceed with caution and have a Plan B.

[jpd80]

Ford has come a long way from the days it espoused the "super segment" consisting of Fiesta, Focus, C-Max and Escape.

Back then, Ford was happy to roatate incentives and push each product depending on where it was in the cycle.

Now all of that is history, the market has moved to Escape and utilities but I would like to see Ford do more

than just Focus Active, maybe Focus ST from Germany and either Mondeo or Taurus from China.

[2b2]

^

I'd forgotten all about Ford's cockamamie "super segment"...

...just like the suits intended

[jpd80]

Toyota is preparing two plants to build Next Gen RAV4, you watch that go to work on Camry sales.

[grbeck]

If you take that 85 Cadillac and make it meet today’s emissions and crash standards you won’t see anywhere close to 31 mpg. Nor would it have half the power of today’s vehicles.

 

 

That's assuming it would even run. The best thing that you can say about the engine in Cadillacs from that era is that it sold a lot of Lincoln Town Cars.

[grbeck]

 

 

CAFE highway mileage is not done at a steady state and is far from the optimal you'll get on light cruise

For example, the highway CAFE rating for the '85 Cadillac 4.1 L is 22 mpg and the 96 Sentra is 36 mpg.

 

Also remember that, since the 1980s, the EPA has changed the method by which it calculates gas mileage - mainly because the old method yielded overly optimistic figures.

 

Today's EPA mileage figures are more likely to be achieved by drivers in the real world.

Edited May 7, 2018 by grbeck

[J-150]

Toyota is preparing two plants to build Next Gen RAV4, you watch that go to work on Camry sales.

Its already their top selling model in Canada.

[jpd80]

Its already their top selling model in Canada.

And with two RAV4 plants in future, that tells me it will be their top selling model in the US.

[grbeck]

And with two RAV4 plants in future, that tells me it will be their top selling model in the US.

 

At Honda, the Civic and CR-V are running neck-and-neck for the brand's top-selling spot for this calendar year.

 

Both are comfortably ahead of the Accord.

[jasonj80]

The CR-V will be Honda's best selling model this year, The Rav4 will be Toyota's, Rouge will be Nissan's, and out side of Pickup's Escape and Equinox will be Ford and GM's. I don't know where the market is going to stop, but most people I know that have midsized sedans have switched over to compact SUV's as replacements.

Also there are a ton of next gen Escapes running around Dearborn. I wonder if Ford will do a special launch for it like they did the Explorer in 2010. With the rate the market is changing the Escape/Kuga is going to be Ford's most important passenger model around the world, after the F-series.

[jpd80]

The CR-V will be Honda's best selling model this year, The Rav4 will be Toyota's, Rouge will be Nissan's, and out side of Pickup's Escape and Equinox will be Ford and GM's. I don't know where the market is going to stop, but most people I know that have midsized sedans have switched over to compact SUV's as replacements.

 

Also there are a ton of next gen Escapes running around Dearborn. I wonder if Ford will do a special launch for it like they did the Explorer in 2010. With the rate the market is changing the Escape/Kuga is going to be Ford's most important passenger model around the world, after the F-series.

 

I wonder if it's likely that NG Escape could be built in two places, Louisville and also overflow at Hermosillo with C2 SWB Utility

If it really hits the sweet spot of the market, Ford will probably need to build a ton of them like Toyota is with RAV4

Edited May 8, 2018 by jpd80

[2b2]

I have No idea if Louisville deserves an elevated status but

imho, it could become a sorta neoWixom with the MKC's: larger/sportier + tauter/entry;

[ one of those being the new Lincoln after the Aviator & BY 2020 ]

Maverick; & high-end Escapes [& any other pricey[er] C2 spinoffs]...

with Mexico being the main source for mid&lower-end Escapes

Edited May 8, 2018 by 2b2

[jpd80]

To be true to Hackett's plan of minimizing costs, that would seem most logical

to build products in two plants across appropriate cost bases for high and low series.

That gives necessary volume and perception of better models being American made.

[2b2]

^ & besides the *perception* benefits,

it helps Louisville's margins & hopefully supports its quality

Edited May 8, 2018 by 2b2