ANTAUS Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Autoblog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Cost cutting in action right there, though I question whether a right hand drive Bronco was ever in the cards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) Correct Fuzzy, People should remember that Ford also has Everest in the RHD markets and and AFAIK, there's one planned as third vehicle on NG T6 MY2023. That vehicle could be significantly different to the current Everest, in a good way. I don't think we'll see a HEV option in Bronco, maybe they just stick to what most Folks will be wanting, V6 and EB V6? Edited December 20, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 37 minutes ago, jpd80 said: I don't think we'll see a HEV option in Bronco, maybe they just stick to what most Folks will be wanting, V6 and EB V6? Except Joe Hinrichs himself said a Hybrid Bronco is coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Turbo Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Kind of makes sense if for no other reason that the Bronco name means very little.......at least as far as people in the UK are concerned. Some might recall it being the car OJ was in during that chase.....or the race version Parnell had stolen in Gone In Sixty Seconds lol. I don't actually ever recall seeing one at a car show over here. I suspect a handful might be imported by some hardcore fans, but nothing more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 I suspect that the Troller will fulfill the RHD markets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Not having the Baby Bronco go global is a mistake, especially for Europe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, twintornados said: I suspect that the Troller will fulfill the RHD markets I wonder how long Ford will continue Troller. Perhaps there is just some delay in NG T6 going to the ROW? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 38 minutes ago, twintornados said: I suspect that the Troller will fulfill the RHD markets And I suspect that Troller is not long for this world... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) Ford has zero interest in Troller outside of Sth America, it's now a parts bin borrow from T6 as no money. "No money" or "save money" is now a big issue on all new projects, it's why Ford doesn't always do what it says. Edited December 20, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Ford has zero interest in Troller outside of Sth America, it's now a parts bin borrow from T6 as no money. "No money" or "save money" is now a big issue on all new projects, it's why Ford says one thing and does something different. Is Ford dying? That whole bottom sentence doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, probowler said: Is Ford dying? That whole bottom sentence doesn't exactly inspire confidence. No, everything is as it's always been, lots of products cover development cost and small profit but Ford really relies on trucks and Larger SUVs to make most of the profits, that's why no hurry to refresh certain products like Escape and why cars went away... Don't forget Hackett is diverting billions away from PD and into his pet projects that may or may not pan out. Zero mention of quality. Edited December 20, 2018 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Troller is Ford do Brasil's pet project. It serves purpose, but they could do a much better job of boosting it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 What happened with the Escape anyway? Wasn't it one of the best-selling compact SUVs at one point? I can understand not spending money on the Focus and Fusion, but the Escape is/was one of Fords most popular utilities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 1 minute ago, probowler said: What happened with the Escape anyway? Wasn't it one of the best-selling compact SUVs at one point? I can understand not spending money on the Focus and Fusion, but the Escape is/was one of Fords most popular utilities. It still sells pretty well but the last refresh wasn't all that much so it loses ground to newer RAV4 and Equinox. Escape sales YTD are 252K versus 282K for last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, probowler said: What happened with the Escape anyway? Wasn't it one of the best-selling compact SUVs at one point? I can understand not spending money on the Focus and Fusion, but the Escape is/was one of Fords most popular utilities. To me, the problem with "One Ford" was that no one really planned for what happened next after consoliating the platforms worldwide. It didn't help that Fields pumped the brakes more or less at the wrong time with product development either. The Escape and Kuga is old. The Kuga came out in 2008 and the North American Escape was't moved to it till 2011. Here we are almost 7 years later with basically the same product from 2008. Ford didn't see the market trends that showed a pointed increase in CUV and Truck sales that started in 2013 till it was too late. The new Escape also seems like its a victim of cost cutting (from Fields and to a lesser extent Hackett in a the pursut of higer profit margins), so who knows how it will turn out. The Automotive market future is at a crossroads and even the more successful companies aren't sure were to go to next. There is alot of pressure from investors for auto companies to act like IT Hardware companies with their corrasponding profit margins-which isn't going to happen IMO. Then add in the new players that may or may not make a dent in the market (see Tesla and others) the future is defently cloudy-but at the same time I don't think the market is going to actually change that drastrically in the next 10 years...you'll see more BEVs, but they will be in the 50K+ range, unless some pricing break throughs that drop the price down to under $40K. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) To me it feels like 2000 or 2001 when Nasser was sitting on a huge war chest of cash, trying to diversify and develop new income streams. I'm worried that Jim Hackett will keep doing more and more moves away from where Ford makes profits, mobility is a continuing quarterly black hole of red ink. Autonomous vehicles are now targeting fleets because of low actual interest by retail buyers, same goes for EVs. I think he's about to do zany deals in Europe with VW that could see around 20K staff reduction...massive preoccupation with achieving specific company profit levels..it seems at any cost.. History doesn't repeat but it sure does echo.... Edited December 20, 2018 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) Is there REALLY a rush for Ford to develop autonomous vehicles? Even electric vehicles? I just don't see the point. Let someone else spend the money, and kill people first.. because the need (and the capability) isn't there yet. Ford should focus on building quality, long-lasting, vehicles that look good and enhance Fords image. Keep a watchful eye on the competition, do (SOME) development and research and be ready to jump on the electric/robot bandwagon only when the time is right. Google right now has roads in my area that don't exist, and is missing roads that do exist.... I have no confidence that antonymous vehicles will be able to deal with snow covered, poorly maintained, missing lane marking roads for a long time. This whole antonymous vehicle fad seems like the next "Flying car" travel revolution. The fact that electric vehicles rely so much on government subsidies concerns me as well... if the time was right for this technology, we wouldn't need that. Edited December 20, 2018 by probowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 1 hour ago, probowler said: This whole antonymous vehicle fad seems like the next "Flying car" travel revolution. The fact that electric vehicles rely so much on government subsidies concerns me as well... if the time was right for this technology, we wouldn't need that. I think BEVs are about 10 years or so out from becoming common place-that isn't that far out considering how different BEV platforms are from ICE platforms. Not to mention (well Federal US Goverment) subsidies are going away sooner then later. Self Driving cars are much futher down the road-if you follow the IT industry at all you can see the same thing happening to auto industry-promises of pie in the sky to inflate stock prices. I see the same very thing happening with self driving cars that are supposed to be the next big thing and are driving some manufactures stock prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 4 hours ago, probowler said: Is Ford dying? That whole bottom sentence doesn't exactly inspire confidence. They're acting like it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assimilator Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) Escape sales are tanking for a number of reasons, but Hackett specifically addressed this as an intentional act to prepare the customer for the more expensive Escape that's replacing it. In reality I think they are also just trying to plug the holes bleeding money, and I think Escape was one of those products being sold too aggressively. They cost-cut the hell out of it for 2019, only a year before its replacement. I am getting an increasingly uneasy feeling with Ford products under Hackett's direction to extract money. What they've done to Escape in 2019 really turns my stomach personally. OneFord has largely been dismantled, and it probably had to be because the cost and development structure wasn't flexible (a lesson Ford had actually learned previously but Mullally ignored). And now Ford's regions are wildly different with only one of them making any money. Edited December 20, 2018 by Assimilator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 4 hours ago, silvrsvt said: To me, the problem with "One Ford" was that no one really planned for what happened next after consoliating the platforms worldwide. It didn't help that Fields pumped the brakes more or less at the wrong time with product development either. The Escape and Kuga is old. The Kuga came out in 2008 and the North American Escape was't moved to it till 2011. Here we are almost 7 years later with basically the same product from 2008. Ford didn't see the market trends that showed a pointed increase in CUV and Truck sales that started in 2013 till it was too late. The new Escape also seems like its a victim of cost cutting (from Fields and to a lesser extent Hackett in a the pursut of higer profit margins), so who knows how it will turn out. The Automotive market future is at a crossroads and even the more successful companies aren't sure were to go to next. There is alot of pressure from investors for auto companies to act like IT Hardware companies with their corrasponding profit margins-which isn't going to happen IMO. Then add in the new players that may or may not make a dent in the market (see Tesla and others) the future is defently cloudy-but at the same time I don't think the market is going to actually change that drastrically in the next 10 years...you'll see more BEVs, but they will be in the 50K+ range, unless some pricing break throughs that drop the price down to under $40K. https://www.engadget.com/2018/12/17/vw-id-range-and-more-info/ EVs are projected to meet cost parity with ICE cars by the 2022-23 timeframe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) BEVs have a massive perception problem, most vehicle buyers think that BEVs should be closer to the gas vehicles they replace. They expect savings in fuel consumption to be part of car maker continual improvement so good luck trying to convince most of them to pay more up front to maybe break even in four or five years time. Edited December 20, 2018 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Cost parity IS the purchase price. The price of batteries is declining faster than previously projected, thanks to not only EVs, but especially to all those portable electronic devices that we seemingly can't live without. They're also getting incrementally better all the time. The rest of the EV is already cheaper than ICE powered cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) I guarantee that we will still be taking about this issue in three years time, cost parity is a myth until Ford actually produces something like an BEV Escape for approximately $25K without govt subsidies and tax credits At least, not while Hackett keeps cutting corners to make Ford fit his goals Edited December 20, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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