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Car & Driver 2020 Explorer vs. Telluride Comparison

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16 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

My only problem with the Car and Driver comparo is that that the was 49k. At that point why not use a base Explorer Limited? Fully loaded Koreans or XLT Explorer just seems at little off. Also, why wasn't a Honda or Toyota in here? It just seems the Korean twins have the price beat on everything. 

 

Just looked at the order guide, and the Limited model also has standard most of the features they were complaining Explorer didn't have vs. the competition.

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45 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Like I just said, I'm wondering how much of market buying is going on with lower pricing and buying advertising from the media....

 

Competitive pricing and catchy advertisements on TV, online, and print certainly help. But ultimately, product excellence is what counts here, and Hyundai/Kia nailed that with Palisade and Telluride.

 

Their first attempt to enter the midsize SUV market in the U.S. (Hyundai Veracruz and Kia Borrego) was a flop.

Second attempt (Hyundai Santa Fe/Santa Fe XL) got them in the game.

Third attempt (Hyundai Palisade & Kia Telluride) hit a home run.

Edited by rperez817

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38 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Like I just said, I'm wondering how much of market buying is going on with lower pricing and buying advertising from the media....

 

Looks like they are still offering the 60/100K warranty on them too.

 

HRG

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21 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Looks like they are still offering the 60/100K warranty on them too.

 

HRG

 

That 100k warranty is only if you follow their ridiculous maintenance schedule. Not sure if it has to been done by a dealer or authorized shop. 

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32 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

That 100k warranty is only if you follow their ridiculous maintenance schedule. Not sure if it has to been done by a dealer or authorized shop. 

Under the Magnuson-Moss act, they can't require a dealership.  They can require schedules, and specs to fluids.  But if those are met by any shop, or even the customer doing it themselves, they have to cover the Warranty.  So if you documented the oil you used and the dates, that will apply.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

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37 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

That 100k warranty is only if you follow their ridiculous maintenance schedule.

 

Which aspect of their maintenance schedule do you find ridiculous?  The only thing that really stands out to me is the valve clearance inspection at 60K or 6 years, which should easily be covered if there's a $5K savings up-front.

 

HRG

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2 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Pretty sure the South Korean's aren't seeing $11K signing bonuses,,,,,

 

HRG

Think about what you just wrote.......I mean really think about it.

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2 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Pretty sure the South Korean's aren't seeing $11K signing bonuses,,,,,

 

HRG

Double post...sorry

Edited by CKNSLS

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2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Like I just said, I'm wondering how much of market buying is going on with lower pricing and buying advertising from the media....

 

Maybe as much as those who have read the new model launch of the Explorer has been a disaster.

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1 hour ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

That 100k warranty is only if you follow their ridiculous maintenance schedule. Not sure if it has to been done by a dealer or authorized shop. 

 

There is nothing ridiculous about Hyundai/Kia maintenance schedules. For Palisade and Telluride, normal maintenance consists of oil changes & tire rotations every 7.5k miles, cabin air filter every 15k,  engine air filter every 30k, spark plug replacement at 100k, engine coolant replacement at 120k. Plus the usual inspection of components. HotRunrGuy correctly indicated one inspection Hyundai mentions at 60k is valve clearance. Drive belt condition inspection is also mentioned at the same interval. Those aren't unusual though.

 

Also, Hyundai & Kia are no different from any other manufacturers in terms of requiring owners not abuse their vehicles in order to obtain warranty coverage. 

 

Basically, the main differences between Hyundai and Kia's standard new vehicle warranties and those of Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, GM are as follows.

  • Hyundai/Kia warranty simply lasts longer for the original owner
  • The full length of the Hyundai/Kia powertrain and bumper to bumper warranties are not transferable to subsequent owners outside the original owner's household

VW used to have an even better bumper to bumper warranty (6 years, 72k miles). But they reduced it to 4 years or 50k miles for 2020.

Edited by rperez817

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3 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

My only problem with the Car and Driver comparo is that that the was 49k. At that point why not use a base Explorer Limited? Fully loaded Koreans or XLT Explorer just seems at little off. Also, why wasn't a Honda or Toyota in here? It just seems the Korean twins have the price beat on everything. 

 

Honda most likely wasnt used because it has lost all the comparos it has been apart of.  The new toyota hasnt beem released either to dealers or for first tests.  The cx9 has already beaten the atlas traverse and acadia, but the enclave was supposed to be the best of the trio.  Ford probably sent them the xlt because it wouldve been difficult to source a ltd trim below the 50k range.

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17 minutes ago, Dlcorbett said:

Ford probably sent them the xlt because it wouldve been difficult to source a ltd trim below the 50k range.

The more likely scenario is that Ford believes the Explorer XLT is a better vehicle (which is up for debate) OR....that was the only Explorer on hand that didn’t require shipment to Flat Rock for repairs....lol.  

Edited by 02MustangGT

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4 hours ago, akirby said:

 

Easy to do if you're underpricing the market by $5K -$10K.

Why is that so easy?   Hyundai is turning a profit on a vehicle that apparently has better qualities than competing vehicles.  Sounds like you are excusing Ford for not building a product that is BETTER than the competition at a price point that is more relative.  The general consensus around is that Ford needs to push the Explorer pricing upmarket to support the platform sharing with Aviator.  We will all know soon enough if that strategy works.  

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September production figures,

Vehicle...................Sept'19........Sept '18

Ford Taurus.......................0..............3,657
Chicago (C).....................0............3,657

Ford Explorer............19,885............29,001
Lincoln Aviator...........3,070.....................0
Chicago (T)............22,955...........29,001

Total Chicago........22,955............32,658    

 I think they're getting on top of issues now.

 

Edited by jpd80

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1 hour ago, 02MustangGT said:

Why is that so easy?   Hyundai is turning a profit on a vehicle that apparently has better qualities than competing vehicles.  Sounds like you are excusing Ford for not building a product that is BETTER than the competition at a price point that is more relative.  The general consensus around is that Ford needs to push the Explorer pricing upmarket to support the platform sharing with Aviator.  We will all know soon enough if that strategy works.  

And you know profit margin because...????

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1 hour ago, 02MustangGT said:

Why is that so easy?   Hyundai is turning a profit on a vehicle that apparently has better qualities than competing vehicles.  Sounds like you are excusing Ford for not building a product that is BETTER than the competition at a price point that is more relative.  The general consensus around is that Ford needs to push the Explorer pricing upmarket to support the platform sharing with Aviator.  We will all know soon enough if that strategy works.  

 

Hyundai/Kia also don't have the same legacy costs as GM or Ford either.
 

Pricing of the Explorer is NOT at all out of line with everyone, but the Kia/Hyundai products.

 

Traverse

 traverse.PNG.e9b01b8b6267dd2cb4a674477842c48f.PNG

Enclave

Encalve.PNG.8f533c3804d108ca4ecdf5600866c10e.PNG

Pilot

passport.PNG.6ef9bcce3977db9c38db7786f87db065.PNG

Highlander

highlander.PNG.2132adff9bb57f1fd9ef3ba2d1f58cc2.PNG

 

Telluride

telluride.PNG.00b7b83dd0a1b1c8d176ebf861ab886a.PNG

 

Palisade

Palaside.PNG.48c10900a31f0ef2610776df241dd0c0.PNG

 

Explorer
explorer.PNG.4806018f475229b4e0278de03bd8050a.PNG

Edited by silvrsvt

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2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

There is nothing ridiculous about Hyundai/Kia maintenance schedules. For Palisade and Telluride, normal maintenance consists of oil changes & tire rotations every 7.5k miles, cabin air filter every 15k,  engine air filter every 30k, spark plug replacement at 100k, engine coolant replacement at 120k. Plus the usual inspection of components. HotRunrGuy correctly indicated one inspection Hyundai mentions at 60k is valve clearance. Drive belt condition inspection is also mentioned at the same interval. Those aren't unusual though.

 

Also, Hyundai & Kia are no different from any other manufacturers in terms of requiring owners not abuse their vehicles in order to obtain warranty coverage. 

 

Basically, the main differences between Hyundai and Kia's standard new vehicle warranties and those of Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, GM are as follows.

  • Hyundai/Kia warranty simply lasts longer for the original owner
  • The full length of the Hyundai/Kia powertrain and bumper to bumper warranties are not transferable to subsequent owners outside the original owner's household

VW used to have an even better bumper to bumper warranty (6 years, 72k miles). But they reduced it to 4 years or 50k miles for 2020.

All I can go buy is past KIA warranty as I haven’t looked at their current standard. Having to replace a timing belt at 60 seems unreasonable.Many other things do as well. Just remember, nothing is for free.

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2 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

And you know profit margin because...????

Not sure what your point is?   Hyundai built a vehicle that is priced right and is making a profit.  

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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Hyundai/Kia also don't have the same legacy costs as GM or Ford either.
 

 

 

 


 

 

OR- $11,000.00 sign on bonuses........

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Just now, CKNSLS said:

 

OR- $11,000.00 sign on bonuses........

Yep.  The reference to “legacy” costs is quite the excuse.  There is no such thing as “legacy” costs.  If you believe that the costs of employing union members is going to increase profits at GM and Ford, you are mistaken.  Especially with the current landscape of the entire auto industry.  

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See the big picture,

GM sets up production of lots of utilities in Mexico, jobs growth that the UAW will never get.

Combine that with the end of car production at four US plants and GM is more profitable

than it was twelve months ago. All GM had to do was get the UAW to accept that and

move on with improved pay and benefits that pale in comparison to the huge savings

that GM has just masterminded.

 

and the whole reason for the strike was the UAW trying to get security for its 9,000

casual employees plus, getting GM to reverse its decision of closing those four

car plants...once GM convinced the UAW that only one of those plants would be

saved, I think reality set in and lots of workers are now resigned to the fact..

 

 

Edited by jpd80

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2 hours ago, 02MustangGT said:

Not sure what your point is?   Hyundai built a vehicle that is priced right and is making a profit.  


When one vehicle (or twins from the same company) are priced significantly lower than most of the competition then it’s reasonable to presume they’re selling below cost.  I’d say it’s a good short term strategy to attract buyers in a segment they haven’t competed in before,  But that’s also not sustainable.

 

If Ford dropped prices on any product by $5k sales would increase.  Simple economics.  They’re buying market share.

 

That doesn’t mean Explorer Limited and Platinum aren’t overpriced - seems they are.

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1 hour ago, akirby said:


When one vehicle (or twins from the same company) are priced significantly lower than most of the competition then it’s reasonable to presume they’re selling below cost.  I’d say it’s a good short term strategy to attract buyers in a segment they haven’t competed in before,  But that’s also not sustainable.

 

If Ford dropped prices on any product by $5k sales would increase.  Simple economics.  They’re buying market share.

 

That doesn’t mean Explorer Limited and Platinum aren’t overpriced - seems they are.

 

What puts a "hole" in your theory is that many of their models have been priced (inc. rebates) thousands less than the competition-for the last decade or more. So-according to your theory they would be losing money across the model lines-yet continue to stay in business. Don't think your theory is valid.

 

(Can someone say "Legacy costs?)

 

Back in 2017 my new Santa Fe (XL) Limited was $5,000.00 less than the Toyo/Honda equivalent.  

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13 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

 Having to replace a timing belt at 60 seems unreasonable.

I agree, but it's not something that's needed on any current model year Hyundai or Kia vehicle in the U.S., as none of them use timing belts. To clarify, one 60k mile maintenance operation is to inspect the serpentine drive belt. Not necessarily replace it. Pretty much just like what other automakers specify.

 

It is interesting that Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis still offer the best new vehicle warranties in the U.S. market, even though they don't need to. Those three brands are now the most trouble free according to J.D. Power IQS 2019.

 

2019088a.jpg

Edited by rperez817

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7 hours ago, akirby said:

If Ford dropped prices on any product by $5k sales would increase.  Simple economics.  They’re buying market share.

 

 

Maybe what we're starting to see is a change in business philosophy, where profitability is more important than volume? Less volume means less plants, less employees, less overhead. It's certainly OK for a company to sell less of a product, at a greater profit, than more product with less profit/vehicle.

 

HRG

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