AGR Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 1:03 PM, silvrsvt said: Forgot that the Ti models went that high-which is another reason why a $39k Escape ST would be a non starter. Just look at the Fusion Sport-never a big seller and it was around the same price. I think the sub $40k market isn’t conducive to a sporty product that can make money, because the Escape is sold more or less at a price point around $30k. The Bronco Sport should hopefully push that higher because of the cashe will help push pricing higher because of its bigger brother. I’d rather see them offer an Escape Sport model with a better suspension and some different wheels and styling. Make it a $2-3500 markup and it should sell decently and keep margins up. An Escape Sport with sport suspension and the 2.0 EB/auto with paddle shifters would be good enough for most people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 11 hours ago, AGR said: An Escape Sport with sport suspension and the 2.0 EB/auto with paddle shifters would be good enough for most people. The thing is that alot of people don't know how powerful even the last gen 2.0L ecoboost is in the Escape-My parents have a 13 Ti FWD that chirps the tires no problem and my wife's 2017 AWD has no issues accelerating or dealing with traffic on the highway. I just wonder how much suspension tuning there is that can be done to improve the ride without compromising comfort with it. I still see small compact CUVs as mid size sedan replacements and performance models in that segment have never been a big seller. The orginal SHO and maybe the Grand National come to mind, but one was pretty expensive and the other was a coupe. Given the target market is younger professionals and that segment not being really into cars generally (painting with a board brush), I still don't see how it can be practical, given Ford's lack of success with the RS (which a Escape ST would be slighter cheaper then) or even to a lesser point the Focus ST...which topped out under the Escape Ti in pricing. They seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place with pricing...they can't bring in something cheap and good...the Ecosport is just ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 I was really hoping for an Escape ST with a tuned 2.3EB & AWD. It could have been fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMSA-XJR9 Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 56 minutes ago, NLPRacing said: I was really hoping for an Escape ST with a tuned 2.3EB & AWD. It could have been fun. Escape RS? ? (Using recent Focus RS drivetrain/AWD system, but maybe with a flappy paddle gear box instead of the manual?!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 5 hours ago, silvrsvt said: The thing is that alot of people don't know how powerful even the last gen 2.0L ecoboost is in the Escape-My parents have a 13 Ti FWD that chirps the tires no problem and my wife's 2017 AWD has no issues accelerating or dealing with traffic on the highway. I just wonder how much suspension tuning there is that can be done to improve the ride without compromising comfort with it. I still see small compact CUVs as mid size sedan replacements and performance models in that segment have never been a big seller. The orginal SHO and maybe the Grand National come to mind, but one was pretty expensive and the other was a coupe. Given the target market is younger professionals and that segment not being really into cars generally (painting with a board brush), I still don't see how it can be practical, given Ford's lack of success with the RS (which a Escape ST would be slighter cheaper then) or even to a lesser point the Focus ST...which topped out under the Escape Ti in pricing. They seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place with pricing...they can't bring in something cheap and good...the Ecosport is just ok. I saw Focus STs everywhere here, though I realize I'm not in a "normal" market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 30 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I saw Focus STs everywhere here, though I realize I'm not in a "normal" market. I used to see a decent amount of them but they’ve seems to have disappeared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Apparently they're going to come out with a Puma ST in Europe: https://www.autoblog.com/2020/05/01/ford-puma-st-crossover-200-horsepower/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 For the life of me, I can't figure out why Puma was never planned to be sold in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 3 hours ago, bzcat said: For the life of me, I can't figure out why Puma was never planned to be sold in the US. How profitable are sub compact cuvs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 16 hours ago, T-dubz said: How profitable are sub compact cuvs? EcoSport raises its hand. They'd make more on a Puma than EcoSport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 2 hours ago, rmc523 said: EcoSport raises its hand. They'd make more on a Puma than EcoSport. The price point of the Ecosport is entry level product for the NA market. The Puma would slot too close to the Escape in price to be profitable IMO. I guess Ford is aiming at the high low end and mid-mid range for its new products? The Bronco Sport, Maverick Pickup should be all over $25K starting price. Unless Ford is still planning on coming out with another CUV for SA/NA market that will slot between the Escape and Ecosport or be a better fit for the entry level market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 3 hours ago, rmc523 said: EcoSport raises its hand. They'd make more on a Puma than EcoSport. Isn’t the Ecosport also manufactured in India? That probably helps it turn a profit (I’d guess a small one). Subcompact suvs aren’t as popular as other size vehicles either. If you have kids, you aren’t looking at one of these. They are probably a bit more popular in urban areas with lots of small parking spots and single people. I just don’t see the need for vehicles that small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 On 4/28/2020 at 1:21 PM, AGR said: An Escape Sport with sport suspension and the 2.0 EB/auto with paddle shifters would be good enough for most people. Yet Ford sees fit to build and sell Corsair with the 2.3 EB, Also the latest Focus ST has the 2.3 EB and it's pretty good.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 On 4/28/2020 at 2:11 PM, silvrsvt said: I used to see a decent amount of them but they’ve seems to have disappeared Kids buy them and beat the crap out of them. Most are probably in a pick a part before the payments are finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 15 hours ago, MKX1960 said: Kids buy them and beat the crap out of them. Most are probably in a pick a part before the payments are finished. Thats exactly what I was thinking also-these types of cars don't have long lifespans because they are used hard and put away wet or crashed into a pole lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 On 5/2/2020 at 5:35 PM, T-dubz said: Isn’t the Ecosport also manufactured in India? Yes sir T-dubz, the Ford India plant in Tamil Nadu is one assembly site for EcoSport. Others are the Ford Romania plant in Craiova, the Ford Brazil plant in Camacari, and the Changan Ford JV in China. EcoSport was also assembled at AutoAlliance Thailand until 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 On 5/3/2020 at 1:32 AM, jpd80 said: Yet Ford sees fit to build and sell Corsair with the 2.3 EB, Also the latest Focus ST has the 2.3 EB and it's pretty good.... But the Corsair also has a much higher price point too. The Corsair Reserve starts at $49K with the 2.3L Ecoboost. You can get into the seat of an Edge ST for that much or for a little more, an Explorer ST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: But the Corsair also has a much higher price point too. The Corsair Reserve starts at $49K with the 2.3L Ecoboost. You can get into the seat of an Edge ST for that much or for a little more, an Explorer ST. Not everyone wants a big SUV. You can make the same exact argument for any Escape trim level vs. Edge. The price spread is pretty consistent across the range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 Quick Google search shows the Corsair 2.3EB is a 6.5 0-60, while the Edge ST is 6.1 seconds. So fairly close. I'd argue the Corsair will be a better car luxury wise. And I personally would rather have the smaller vehicle. But that is subjective. Personally, I'm waiting to see what the Corsair GT is going to come back acceleration wise. If it's the same as the 2.0EB, I think that may be my next car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, bzcat said: Not everyone wants a big SUV. You can make the same exact argument for any Escape trim level vs. Edge. The price spread is pretty consistent across the range. Right, but also not many takers (outside of the luxury market) for a say a $42-45k price performance version of a 27K CUV either. I don't see at least in the US, going by past history how an Escape ST would be successful at a 40K price point. The Focus ST is a bit different since it was around $25K or so-decent increase over the base model, but still "affordable" The Fusion ST (don't ever recall seeing one on the road to be honest) was in the mid to high 30K range and didn't sell either. I can see possibly a higher end Bronco Sport or maybe the EcoSport or whatever replaces it as a performance version, as long as its under $35K or less. Edited May 4, 2020 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 I'm sure any Ford Performance C2 resources are focused on Bronco Sport at this point rather than Escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 We’re in a watch and see market now, I can understand no 2.3 ST in Escape when a new Edge is on the way, lots of other new products coming too, so maybe a time to gauge interest and sales interaction before any further changes. as others have said, the 2.0 EB may be sufficient for most, maybe hybrids will be where the action is in the next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 On 5/2/2020 at 5:35 PM, T-dubz said: Isn’t the Ecosport also manufactured in India? That probably helps it turn a profit (I’d guess a small one). Subcompact suvs aren’t as popular as other size vehicles either. If you have kids, you aren’t looking at one of these. They are probably a bit more popular in urban areas with lots of small parking spots and single people. I just don’t see the need for vehicles that small. A lot of people buy Souls, HRVs, CHRs and whatever the other competition is called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, rperez817 said: Will be interesting to see how long sales take to recove Edited May 5, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted May 5, 2020 Author Share Posted May 5, 2020 11 hours ago, rmc523 said: A lot of people buy Souls, HRVs, CHRs and whatever the other competition is called. CHR - 10k sold, $21,295 base price RAV4 - 97k sold $25,950 base price HRV - 19k sold, $20,820 base price CRV - 71k sold, $25,050 base price Soul - 20k sold, $17,490 base price ecosport - 13k sold, $19,995 base price escape - 48k sold, $24,885 base price Looks like this size vehicle is good for 80-100k units a year. Compared to 200-400k for compact SUVs. Having 2 vehicles in this category doesn’t make any sense. Replacing Ecosport with puma might be ok, but from what I’ve heard, it’s more premium so it would cost more. If it cost more, then it would be more expensive then it’s competition and closer to the escape in price. If it stays the same price as the Ecosport, then ford probably wouldn’t be making as much money off it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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