Autoextremist om Ford

[Deanh]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2020 at 8:39 AM, Bob Rosadini said:

I've mentioned this  before-are electronically activated valves that exotic?  think of the moving parts that are eliminated in terms of manufacturing cost, assembly cost, maintenance cost ,  as well as parasitic loss?

I look at history of diesels where literally  you had a mechanical injector and now you have injectors that vary the spray during the injection cycle!

 

The only reason I see ICE's as dead is the Silicon Valley crowd has convinced the likes of Bill Ford and Hackett that ANYTHING electric must be better.  Will a motor in each wheel be ultimately more efficient than conventional power trains?  For sure-but why not at a measured pace?  The road to the cliff is crowded with lemmings right now-give  them room?

I personally think its pandering...god forbid all the do good Greenies thinking Electric cars are the answer to EVERYTHING, actually take notice of the Environmental damage caused by mineral mining ( by diesel belching machinery )  not to mention the required deforestation, or the fact the Minerals are GASP...shipped in tankers that are apex polluters, from FOREIGN countries we will become fully dependent on for battery materials. Lets not forget the effects  of increased Electrical Grid usage, that right now is completely inadequate during heat waves ( we have blackout galore when everyone needs A/C ) or disposal of said Batteries once their lifespan is complete. All this whilst ICE vehicles are cleaner than they ever have been, are somewhat more affordable than BEVs with a proven track record.....Ill be the first to admit ultimately I don't know what the answer is, but IMO BEVS are NOT the answer...they have their issues as outlined, but ultimately its about following the $$$$, someones getting REALLY wealthy off this

[silvrsvt]

31 minutes ago, Deanh said:

I personally think its pandering...god forbid all the do good Greenies thinking Electric cars are the answer to EVERYTHING, actually take notice of the Environmental damage caused by mineral mining ( by diesel belching machinery )  not to mention the required deforestation, or the fact the Minerals are GASP...shipped in tankers that are apex polluters, from FOREIGN countries we will become fully dependent on for battery materials. Lets not forget the effects  of increased Electrical Grid usage, that right now is completely inadequate during heat waves ( we have blackout galore when everyone needs A/C ) or disposal of said Batteries once their lifespan is complete. All this whilst ICE vehicles are cleaner than they ever have been, are somewhat more affordable than BEVs with a proven track record.....Ill be the first to admit ultimately I don't know what the answer is, but IMO BEVS are NOT the answer...they have their issues as outlined, but ultimately its about following the $$$$, someones getting REALLY wealthy off this

 

The thing is that getting oil out of the ground has the same issues as your talking about with mining. Not to mention environmental damage caused by spills etc. 

Most charging will be done in the evenings and overnight when demand for AC isn't as great due to lower temps.

Batteries ARE recyclable-but remains to see if its economically feasible to do so and will hopefully lessen the demands for materials.  

BEVs should become more affordable, but lets keep in mind the average cost of a new vehicle is $41,263 and well a Mach E starts at $42,895.

The big thing that alot of people are forgetting about is that BEVs (once the tech matures) will be far more profitable for car companies then ICE cars...the complexity of making a BEV is much less...you have a motor or two that can replace an 8 or 10 speed or more transmission and increasingly complex gas powered engines with turbos and exotic fuel injectors that cost $$$. 

Its just progress and once BEVs have 300-500 mile range and can recharge to 80% of that in 10-15-20 minutes, ICE cars don't really have a chance in the grand scheme of things. 

[FordBuyer]

53 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The thing is that getting oil out of the ground has the same issues as your talking about with mining. Not to mention environmental damage caused by spills etc. 

Most charging will be done in the evenings and overnight when demand for AC isn't as great due to lower temps.

Batteries ARE recyclable-but remains to see if its economically feasible to do so and will hopefully lessen the demands for materials.  

BEVs should become more affordable, but lets keep in mind the average cost of a new vehicle is $41,263 and well a Mach E starts at $42,895.

The big thing that alot of people are forgetting about is that BEVs (once the tech matures) will be far more profitable for car companies then ICE cars...the complexity of making a BEV is much less...you have a motor or two that can replace an 8 or 10 speed or more transmission and increasingly complex gas powered engines with turbos and exotic fuel injectors that cost $$$. 

Its just progress and once BEVs have 300-500 mile range and can recharge to 80% of that in 10-15-20 minutes, ICE cars don't really have a chance in the grand scheme of things. 

 

In other words, SOLID STATE batteries will be the game changer going forward. Until then, BEV's have their issues.....long charging times, too heavy, prone to fires, lack of charging infrastructure, limited range, and so on.

 

Recently, Mark Phelan of Detroit paper reviewed his experience driving a Mach E up into Northern MI to his cottage. Myriad problems charging. He even had to use his bike up there to get around. In many parts of the country, there is little to no charging stations. Check out his story/experience. 

 

I would say BEV is only car for retirees who put low miles on it, but 2nd car only for families who put many miles on car including frequent trips to cottage,etc. Maybe that is why BEV's are not good sellers compared to ICE. 

 

[mackinaw]

11 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

Recently, Mark Phelan of Detroit paper reviewed his experience driving a Mach E up into Northern MI to his cottage. Myriad problems charging. He even had to use his bike up there to get around. In many parts of the country, there is little to no charging stations. Check out his story/experience......

 

Actually Henry Payne of the Detroit News wrote the article.  Where Payne went (Charlevoix) is the area of northern Michigan where I live.  

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/henry-payne/2021/08/05/payne-turning-heads-chasing-chargers-up-north-mustang-mach-e/5450267001/

[Deanh]

3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The thing is that getting oil out of the ground has the same issues as your talking about with mining. Not to mention environmental damage caused by spills etc. 

Most charging will be done in the evenings and overnight when demand for AC isn't as great due to lower temps.

Batteries ARE recyclable-but remains to see if its economically feasible to do so and will hopefully lessen the demands for materials.  

BEVs should become more affordable, but lets keep in mind the average cost of a new vehicle is $41,263 and well a Mach E starts at $42,895.

The big thing that alot of people are forgetting about is that BEVs (once the tech matures) will be far more profitable for car companies then ICE cars...the complexity of making a BEV is much less...you have a motor or two that can replace an 8 or 10 speed or more transmission and increasingly complex gas powered engines with turbos and exotic fuel injectors that cost $$$. 

Its just progress and once BEVs have 300-500 mile range and can recharge to 80% of that in 10-15-20 minutes, ICE cars don't really have a chance in the grand scheme of things. 

I will sit back and remain unconvinced...spills as such are relatively rare and its a coin toss as to whats more damaging...deforestation and mining or oil production (which by the way wont stop even if ICE deplete ) and now we have gone back to shipping oil into the US via OPEC.....and Im also  typing on my Plastic keyboard....oil isn't just for Automobiles...far from it...I personally think ICE vehicles will be here for a LOT longer. BEVs will make definite in roads , but the premise of them being significantly less taxing on the environment is a complete fallacy....how much of that power is produced by pollution burning powerplants...ARG! Theres a significantly better way of looking after the Planet...cut the population and the related consumption...wear a bloody condom....lol...problems population and the related consumption, wretched excess and all those individual carbon footprints tallying up...

Edited August 19, 2021 by Deanh

[CKNSLS]

9 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Autoextremist's latest rant from August 17, 2021 is one of those few times when it is 100 percent accurate. Looks like he calmed down this week. In the rant, Autoextremist talks about the automotive industry as a whole in handling the chip shortage, NHTSA's investigation of Tesla's Autopilot feature, "sound and fury" from a Dodge Charger Hellcat, and Ford's Bronco launch fiasco among other topics. Rants - Autoextremist.com ~ the bare-knuckled, unvarnished, high-electron truth...

 

Excerpts from Autoextremist's comments about Ford Bronco launch. His phrase "unmitigated disaster of stupefying proportions" describes things perfectly.

 

 

Of course the (Ford) "regulars" on this board are excellent "excuse makers".......

Edited August 20, 2021 by CKNSLS

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, CKNSLS said:

Of course the (Ford) "regulars" on this board are excellent "excuse makers".......

 

And the same guy has an axe to grind because Ford kicked him the curb and quit paying him for his "services". Not to mention the Bronco and anything related to it is a license to print money. 

 

And if you want to keep calling out moderators, you can enjoy a vacation from the site too. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by silvrsvt

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, CKNSLS said:

Of course the (Ford) "regulars" on this board are excellent "excuse makers".......

 

Bronco's launch - namely the top issue - has been bungled.  Sure.  How many times can that be said?  There are reasons it happened, and solutions.  Regardless, it's beating a dead horse at this point.

Edited August 20, 2021 by rmc523

[rperez817]

10 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Bronco's launch - namely the top issue - has been bungled.  Sure.  How many times can that be said?  There are reasons it happened, and solutions.  Regardless, it's beating a dead horse at this point.

 

Autoextremist's phrase "unmitigated disaster of stupefying proportions" describing Bronco launch should be said as often as anyone on this site pleases.

 

Anyway, what really needs to die is Ford's dysfunctional organizational culture that tolerates making the same mistakes over and over and over. Autoextremist is 100% correct about that, though I disagree with what he said in his June 5, 2021 rant where he called Jim Farley a "consummate bullshit artist". Farley has shown at both Toyota and Ford that he's a good businessman. But he has a lot of work ahead of him continuing Jim Hackett's efforts to get Ford "fit". 

[rmc523]

36 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Autoextremist's phrase "unmitigated disaster of stupefying proportions" describing Bronco launch should be said as often as anyone on this site pleases.

 

Anyway, what really needs to die is Ford's dysfunctional organizational culture that tolerates making the same mistakes over and over and over. Autoextremist is 100% correct about that, though I disagree with what he said in his June 5, 2021 rant where he called Jim Farley a "consummate bullshit artist". Farley has shown at both Toyota and Ford that he's a good businessman. But he has a lot of work ahead of him continuing Jim Hackett's efforts to get Ford "fit". 

 

It can be said over and over again if someone wants, but repeating it endlessly doesn't necessarily contribute anything to the conversation.

[slemke]

10 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The thing is that getting oil out of the ground has the same issues as your talking about with mining. Not to mention environmental damage caused by spills etc. 

Most charging will be done in the evenings and overnight when demand for AC isn't as great due to lower temps.
Batteries ARE recyclable-but remains to see if its economically feasible to do so and will hopefully lessen the demands for materials.  

BEVs should become more affordable, but lets keep in mind the average cost of a new vehicle is $41,263 and well a Mach E starts at $42,895.

The big thing that alot of people are forgetting about is that BEVs (once the tech matures) will be far more profitable for car companies then ICE cars...the complexity of making a BEV is much less...you have a motor or two that can replace an 8 or 10 speed or more transmission and increasingly complex gas powered engines with turbos and exotic fuel injectors that cost $$$. 

Its just progress and once BEVs have 300-500 mile range and can recharge to 80% of that in 10-15-20 minutes, ICE cars don't really have a chance in the grand scheme of things. 

Strip mining vs drilling have different impacts.  We just shouldn’t forget that there are environmental costs associated with both.  Electric vehicles aren’t the panache politicians portray them to be.

 

Charging at night has an impact on the electric grid as more homes rely on heat pumps….and solar panels aren’t producing electricity.  If your night time electricity comes a natural gas powered generator, why not just run the car on natural gas and cut out the middle man?
 

Electric cars will only be more profitable if consumers are willing to pay the premium.  Otherwise, the margins will be razor thin similar to compact economy cars.

[rperez817]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

And the same guy has an axe to grind because Ford kicked him the curb and quit paying him for his "services".

 

Autoextremist grinds his axe on the whole automotive industry. It's not something that Ford made him do. He lodged personal attacks on many senior executives at automakers and suppliers all around the world.

[akirby]

12 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

Of course the (Ford) "regulars" on this board are excellent "excuse makers".......

It’s not our fault that you and several others can’t tell the difference between an excuse and a reason.

 

Webasto was contracted to build the tops and they failed to deliver.  Ford trusted them because they currently supply similar production tops for Jeep.

 

Ford gave them a difficult design and they subsequently changed the design and provided new tooling.

 

Ford did not allow enough time to inspect the production tops before Bronco production.  They took a big risk that the tops were ok based on the pre production prototypes and they lost that bet.

 

Ford is ultimately responsible for the problem.

 

Now can we please stop the arguments about who is responsible?

[akirby]

9 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Autoextremist grinds his axe on the whole automotive industry. It's not something that Ford made him do. He lodged personal attacks on many senior executives at automakers and suppliers all around the world.

But he is especially harsh on Farley and always will be and we all know why.  It’s personal.

[rperez817]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

But he is especially harsh on Farley

 

Autoextremist also attacked Farley's predecessor as Ford CEO, Jim Hackett, as well as Tesla CEO Elon Musk, in the same way. But the individual that Autoextremist attacked to the greatest extreme is the late Sergio Marchionne. Even when Marchionne was in critical condition after shoulder surgery, Autoextremist disparaged him. And around the world Marchionne was considered one of the "boldest business leaders of his generation" and was a very good businessman.

 

Autoextremist does what he does in his weekly rants mostly for entertainment purposes with a lot of self puffery. Occasionally though he will share insights about the automotive industry that are 100% accurate.

Edited August 20, 2021 by rperez817

[rmc523]

12 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Autoextremist grinds his axe on the whole automotive industry. It's not something that Ford made him do. He lodged personal attacks on many senior executives at automakers and suppliers all around the world.

 

Sure, and we have to remember he's also trying to get clicks so has to write sensationalized articles to get attention ( today's "journalism" ).  Aside from that, though, he does have his few specific targets that he continually goes after - Musk, Sergio, Farley.  While the general discussion points about the targets are often warranted, he does have a known/obvious grudge against Farley in particular for the reasons mentioned, not just taking a sensationalized view of the situation.

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by akirby

[FordBuyer]

13 hours ago, slemke said:

Strip mining vs drilling have different impacts.  We just shouldn’t forget that there are environmental costs associated with both.  Electric vehicles aren’t the panache politicians portray them to be.

 

Charging at night has an impact on the electric grid as more homes rely on heat pumps….and solar panels aren’t producing electricity.  If your night time electricity comes a natural gas powered generator, why not just run the car on natural gas and cut out the middle man?
 

Electric cars will only be more profitable if consumers are willing to pay the premium.  Otherwise, the margins will be razor thin similar to compact economy cars.

 

So far, there is no proof that consumers will buy BEV's in great numbers. Most that have bought BEV's are upper income that want to go green.....limited numbers. Looks like Mach E will top out in 3,000-5,000 range. The Lightning will probably do better if Ford's supply chain can do better. But even there ICE rules. 

[FordBuyer]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Autoextremist also attacked Farley's predecessor as Ford CEO, Jim Hackett, as well as Tesla CEO Elon Musk, in the same way. But the individual that Autoextremist attacked to the greatest extreme is the late Sergio Marchionne. Even when Marchionne was in critical condition after shoulder surgery, Autoextremist disparaged him. And around the world Marchionne was considered one of the "boldest business leaders of his generation" and was a very good businessman.

 

Autoextremist does what he does in his weekly rants mostly for entertainment purposes with a lot of self puffery. Occasionally though he will share insights about the automotive industry that are 100% accurate.

 

He seems to be a guy who holds a grudge for decades. We all knew someone like that at sometime in our lives. 

[rmc523]

47 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

So far, there is no proof that consumers will buy BEV's in great numbers. Most that have bought BEV's are upper income that want to go green.....limited numbers. Looks like Mach E will top out in 3,000-5,000 range. The Lightning will probably do better if Ford's supply chain can do better. But even there ICE rules. 

 

Mach E isn't the best example, though, as it's supply limited this year too - wasn't 50k worldwide the limit, with half that going overseas?   25k/12 = 2,083.

 

Not saying you're wrong, just that it can't necessarily get to its full potential this year both because of initial limitations, and of course chip related issues on top of that.

[Deanh]

1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

 

He seems to be a guy who holds a grudge for decades. We all knew someone like that at sometime in our lives. 

well....when the last part of your moniker is "extremist"...what do you expect...lol...obviously an angry man...!

[akirby]

I think with 300 mile ranges and overnight charging and $30k pricing and more utilities and trucks we’re at the point where a lot of people will consider a BEV as a second or third vehicle if they can charge at home.  That could get sales up to 20%-25%.  To get beyond that will require lower prices and easier faster public charging,

[FordBuyer]

20 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Mach E isn't the best example, though, as it's supply limited this year too - wasn't 50k worldwide the limit, with half that going overseas?   25k/12 = 2,083.

 

Not saying you're wrong, just that it can't necessarily get to its full potential this year both because of initial limitations, and of course chip related issues on top of that.

 

Price limits volume sales. The Mach E basically starts in $50,000 range. At luxury dealer near me sits a 2019 Model 3 for $50,000, and it has been sitting there for months at that price. The Bolt is stuck at 2,000/month and it is more affordable. It's going to take a huge federal gas tax or prohibition of ICE sales to get consumers to buy BEV's in huge numbers. 

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

He seems to be a guy who holds a grudge for decades. We all knew someone like that at sometime in our lives. 

 

On his website, Autoextremist claims to have a "22-year career in automotive marketing and advertising", with a lot of self puffery of course. It must not have been a good career because he continually lashes out against the automotive industry. Maybe lashing out like that with crude personal attacks against dozens of executives in the automotive industry is a money maker for Autoextremist.

[Deanh]

59 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Price limits volume sales. The Mach E basically starts in $50,000 range. At luxury dealer near me sits a 2019 Model 3 for $50,000, and it has been sitting there for months at that price. The Bolt is stuck at 2,000/month and it is more affordable. It's going to take a huge federal gas tax or prohibition of ICE sales to get consumers to buy BEV's in huge numbers. 

I think the issue...and the biggest hurdle is basically peoples impatience....if you have to charge a car for hours to obtain any sort of credible driving range it instantly changes the dynamic to said vehicle being a second "rum around car".,.,..and thats even if it has 300 miles range...I think that "fear" is BEVs biggest hurdle...say what you want, but 10 minutes in a gas station filling up is convenient, simple and non time consuming and there Gas Stations are everywhere. I toyed with a Mach E for the  wifes as a she basically drives 30 miles a day...in THAT  scenario it makes perfect sense...but cost and the fact that an SUV fits our needs better so B Sport it was...now if there was a plug in version of the Sport  I would have gone that route.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Deanh

[Deanh]

10 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

On his website, Autoextremist claims to have a "22-year career in automotive marketing and advertising", with a lot of self puffery of course. It must not have been a good career because he continually lashes out against the automotive industry. Maybe lashing out like that with crude personal attacks against dozens of executives in the automotive industry is a money maker for Autoextremist.

clickbait...and the public gobbles up confrontational gossipy articles …..