Jump to content

None






ANTAUS

Ford Explains Why it Offers a V8 in F150

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, snooter said:

Who cares about the generic, false pretense bronco.....it should have had a small v8 option from the start....there is something to be said about a simplistic and reliable vehicle...techno garbage is something that portrays nothing but problems the moment you drive it off the lot


Its hilarious that you think a coyote is simplistic and reliable.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Sevensecondsuv said:

 

That's not true per the actual numbers posted earlier in this thread (and if you want more proof youtube is full of comparison tests).  The actual pecking order for 0-60 times from slowest to fastest is 3.3L -> 2.7EB -> 5.0L -> 3.5EB -> 3.5EB HO.  And then in the 1/4 mile, the 5.0L and 3.5EB are essentially tied.


I was going by this article from 2015 that had the 2.7 faster than the 3.5 but that’s thats

 

https://www.carscoops.com/2015/04/cr-finds-27l-ecoboost-v6-ford-f-150-is/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, akirby said:


That’s true.  Smaller turbos spin up very fast just off idle which is why there is no lag,  the trade off is they run out of steam around 5500 rpm.

The 3.5LEB delivers 90% of its peak torque at just 1700 rpm.  Anything you think is turbo lag is either the ETC delay or transmission.

Here’s the tricky thing though, with a 10-speed automatic, that need for an abundance of torque at or below the converter stall point is a lot less critical. When you mash the throttle, the gearbox ensures that you get to the power band and stay in it. 
 

I found this amazing because at full throttle, you’re using horsepower from peak torque rpm to max horsepower rpm plus about 10% beyond.

this is where an atmo 5.0 that revs a lot higher than the EBV6s could theoretically out accelerate them by having more HP available in that range.

 

it’s just a thought as a way to offer different flavours to F150.....

Edited by jpd80

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never alluded to coyote...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, snooter said:

I never alluded to coyote...


So which other “small V8” did you expect them to use?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, akirby said:

 

I believe the 2.7LEB F150, 3.5LEB F150, 3.5LEB Powerboost hybrid and the 3.5LEB HO Raptor are all faster than the 5.0L V8.

 

Yes it sounds great but the ecoboosts have instant torque and no turbo lag - let me repeat that, no turbo lag - and can easily be tuned for a lot more power.  And it gets better fuel economy when not driven hard.

Your last sentence says it all.  I've heard some say it should be called.." 'Eco or Boost".  I think guys that bitch about economy always have their foot in  it. I and my two sons currently have 5 EB's...Two Expeditions, a  Ranger, A 150, and my 3.0 MKZ.  Gone from fleet, my SHO and an EB Mustang.

 

On the subject of the  5.0, there have been several "surveys" that showed up on You Tube in which Ford service techs were asked to choose an engine they would choose for if they were buying a 150 and the 5.0 was always the winner. I do believe "simplicity" was always the reason.

 

And as you mention  torque, I have to say I liked my 3.5 SHO more than the 3.0.  No doubt the 3.0 is a beast but I'm an easy driver.  If you try to upshift with the paddle shifters it will NOT grab a higher gear until it is ready.  The 3.5?  It would grab a gear and keep pulling from like 1200 RPM.

 

And if I were to buy a 150?..It would be a 5.0-with a set of Flow Master duals😎.  I may be old but I have memories.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

On the subject of the  5.0, there have been several "surveys" that showed up on You Tube in which Ford service techs were asked to choose an engine they would choose for if they were buying a 150 and the 5.0 was always the winner. I do believe "simplicity" was always the reason.

 

 

Of course your going to want to work on something  "simpler" so you can get through it quicker and move on to another job and make more $$$

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what about a 5.0L V8 with Turbos, would that make the media happy? Or even it's customers....?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, ANTAUS said:

So what about a 5.0L V8 with Turbos, would that make the media happy? Or even it's customers....?

 

I'm all for combining maximum displacement with maximum boost.  Don't care if it's turbos or positive displacement blowers - they each have their plusses and minuses.

 

The godzilla is going to make four-figure HP pickups "normal" and attainable for the average enthusiast once the blower kits become widely available.  We're only at the very beginning yet with that engine.  The coyote block and bottom end is good for roughly 900 I hear.  So far the godzilla bottom end is looking good for 1500+, gotta love cast iron.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, jpd80 said:

You know, it's interesting that the F150 version of the Coyote was always around 60 hp less than the Mustang version.

That lack of top end power is exactly why the Coyote can't stand out, it's the very reason why it has DOHC.

So yes, Ford does kind of knobble it's V8 to steer the conversation towards the EBV6.

I think you have it backwards based on the trap speeds. The Ecoboost engines run out of steam fairly quickly, the 5.0 doesn't. I know first hand, I own vehicles with both engines.

 

9 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

5.0L V8 in the previous gen F-150 delivered performance very close to the two EcoBoost V6 options (slightly better than 2.7L, slightly worse than 3.5L), and significantly better than the 3.3L gasoline V6. Here are some numbers Motor Trend got for 2018 F-150 in the TOTY testing that year.

  • 3.3L V6 4x2 Supercab. 0-60 in 7.6s, quarter mile in 15.9s @ 88.2 mph
  • 2.7L V6 Ecoboost 4x4 Supercrew. 0-60 mph in 7.0s, quarter mile in 15.5s @ 89.5 mph
  • 5.0L V8 4x4 Supercrew. 0-60 mph in 6.3s, quarter mile in 14.7s @ 96.6 mph
  • 3.5L V6 Ecoboost Raptor Supercab. 0-60 mph in 6.0s, quarter mile in 14.7s @ 91.4 mph
In addition to better soundtrack, the V8 has more linear power delivery compared to the Ecoboost engines. This may be an important consideration to some pickup truck customers.
 
Of course once the BEV F-150 comes out, all of this will be a moot point.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, jpd80 said:

You know, it's interesting that the F150 version of the Coyote was always around 60 hp less than the Mustang version.

That lack of top end power is exactly why the Coyote can't stand out, it's the very reason why it has DOHC.

So yes, Ford does kind of knobble it's V8 to steer the conversation towards the EBV6.

You would have a stronger point if the HO 3.5EB wasn’t available with 450hp, or the 460hp Mustang didn’t get such terrible gas mileage.  I was checking the fuel economy numbers on the Mustang GT convertible 6 speed and it was atrocious.  The ‘21 coyote f150 was similar or better in the combine.  Ford could increase the power on either one (and the 2.7) if they wanted.  Cafe is dictating the tune.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Of course your going to want to work on something  "simpler" so you can get through it quicker and move on to another job and make more $$$

Well "simpler" yes because of the "PITA" factor.  As for making more $$, I'm assuming Ford has standard hours for most tasks?   More complicated the task, more time allowed.  Now for the inexperienced, if it's flat rate, for sure you will want the less complicated task-until you gain some experience and then start tracking with the allowed time.

 

I would agree given the choice would I want three easy jobs for my shift vs one tough one but again doesn't the system set standards accordingly?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, hand-filer said:

I think you have it backwards based on the trap speeds. The Ecoboost engines run out of steam fairly quickly, the 5.0 doesn't. I know first hand, I own vehicles with both engines.

No, I'm kinda agreeing with you.

What I'm saying is that if you gave the F150 coyote say, another 60 hp at the top end by letting it run to 7,000,

it would top end the Ecoboost V6s like crazy. Once you're underway at full throttle, all that bottom end torque

under 3500 revs doesn't get used, only what the engines have above 4,000 to its shift point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

First, to be clear, I am not fighting with you or anyone else that wants a V8. I guess I am just wanting an explanation, as why they would choose the V8 over ecoboost/powerboost.  It's clear the Powerboost is the top dog but yet I'm getting no explanation as to why other than "just because it's a V8" or "it sounds better". These are similar types of responses that we got from the panther mafia. That's fine as people can like what they want but it seems like there isn't a quantifiable reason,  more of a personal preference like color.

 

Unfortunately, sometimes the only way to get what you really want is to vote with your wallet. Sometimes patience is rewarded.

 

12 hours ago, akirby said:

 

No, he's whining about people who know they can't get a V8 but choose to go to the Bronco website and facebook groups and complain about it over and over and over.   And then complain about everything else that doesn't fit their idea of a 100% custom Bronco.   If you want custom go build it yourself.

 

You have to remember though, that many of those voices were the same ones asking over and over for Ford to bring back the Bronco.... going back over a decade now. If it wasn't for those vocal and opinionated fans... we might only have the Bronco Sport today, or worse... no new Bronco at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

You aren't kidding. I really dislike that forum. I've never seen such whiners. I literally go there for the build pictures and try to not read anything. People over there tend to inflate their wants onto everyone else. It's like Ford owes them a customized Bronco with the options exactly the way they want it. But but Jeep put in a V8...

 

 

LOL Just like here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, akirby said:

Smaller turbos spin up very fast just off idle which is why there is no lag

 

Smaller turbos have lower rotational inertia than larger ones, and this indeed helps reduce turbo lag. But because this inertia isn't zero, and because friction and compressor load are inherent to the turbo's components, turbo lag is present in all current EcoBoost engines though not as noticeable as with first generation EcoBoost. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, probowler said:

 

Unfortunately, sometimes the only way to get what you really want is to vote with your wallet. Sometimes patience is rewarded.

 

 

You have to remember though, that many of those voices were the same ones asking over and over for Ford to bring back the Bronco.... going back over a decade now. If it wasn't for those vocal and opinionated fans... we might only have the Bronco Sport today, or worse... no new Bronco at all.


You’re forgetting one simple fact - the 5.0 V8 won’t fit from the factory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Here’s the tricky thing though, with a 10-speed automatic, that need for an abundance of torque at or below the converter stall point is a lot less critical. When you mash the throttle, the gearbox ensures that you get to the power band and stay in it. 
 

I found this amazing because at full throttle, you’re using horsepower from peak torque rpm to max horsepower rpm plus about 10% beyond.

this is where an atmo 5.0 that revs a lot higher than the EBV6s could theoretically out accelerate them by having more HP available in that range.


This is a good point.  I bet you’d get better results with the EB by shortshifting and keeping it below 5000 while the 5.0 would be better closer to redline. I’ll have to see where my 3.5eb shifts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, akirby said:


That’s true.  Smaller turbos spin up very fast just off idle which is why there is no lag,  the trade off is they run out of steam around 5500 rpm.

The 3.5LEB delivers 90% of its peak torque at just 1700 rpm.  Anything you think is turbo lag is either the ETC delay or transmission.


He drives a Ranger. From what I've read and been told by people who have one is sometimes it takes a second for the transmission to catch up with the engine. Explorer owners with the 2.3EB have reported the same thing. Apparently the 10 speed doesn't quite mesh up with the 4 cylinder engines as well as it does with the bigger V6s and V8s. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

He drives a Ranger. From what I've read and been told by people who have one is sometimes it takes a second for the transmission to catch up with the engine. 

 

Thank you fuzzymoomoo sir. The combination of turbo lag in the engine + transmission programming is noticeable, but not annoying. Even though power delivery in my 2019 Ranger is not as smooth and linear as my old 2004 Ranger with a non-turbo 2.3L and 5-speed manual, the new Ranger has almost twice the horsepower and is more peppy.

 

Autonation Ford's service department applied 2 transmission software updates to my Ranger during regular maintenance appointments. Those helped a little bit, but did not completely cure the issue you mentioned or the occasional rough 1-2 upshift or 2-1 downshift. But I've learned to live with it, as have my family members who use the truck for our business. It's not a big deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I were to buy an F-150, it would most certainly be a V-8. I am basing this more on my son in-law's experience with his '13 3.5EB F-150 (155K) an my friend's son's '15 3.5EB F-150 (131K). Both trucks, while they run like a striped ape; have numurous reliability issues. Seems like higher mileage EB's continually throw codes that require visits to the dealer doctor. My old '04 F-250 with 6.8 (192k) keeps chugging on as does my neighbors '10 5.4L F-150 (160K). My Coyote only has  75k, so it has a while before it enters "high mileage" catagory.

 

Our '13 2.0 EB seems to be holding up well at 132K. Same friend's daughter has a '16 Escape with 1.6 EB that had to have the engine replaced at 118K.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me personally in the F150, the 2.7EB is more than fast enough.  It has a power curve I live better than the V8.  And can turn as good or better FE for most of my daily driving. 

 

My problem is I want a Lariat.  I'd have to just about special order a Lariat to get a 2.7 as the lot only has 3.5's.  So I guess I'll just have to live with the lowly 3.5EB.  🙂  Not that I'm replacing my 2003 Screw just yet.  It only has 93k miles on it.  I don't need anything more at the moment...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thank you fuzzymoomoo sir. The combination of turbo lag in the engine + transmission programming is noticeable, but not annoying. Even though power delivery in my 2019 Ranger is not as smooth and linear as my old 2004 Ranger with a non-turbo 2.3L and 5-speed manual, the new Ranger has almost twice the horsepower and is more peppy.

 

Autonation Ford's service department applied 2 transmission software updates to my Ranger during regular maintenance appointments. Those helped a little bit, but did not completely cure the issue you mentioned or the occasional rough 1-2 upshift or 2-1 downshift. But I've learned to live with it, as have my family members who use the truck for our business. It's not a big deal.

 

FBD3EA86-F6C1-4A8D-800B-D1660AF696AE.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, 92merc said:

 

My problem is I want a Lariat.  I'd have to just about special order a Lariat to get a 2.7 as the lot only has 3.5's.  So I guess I'll just have to live with the lowly 3.5EB.  🙂  


That was exactly my situation but on a XLT.  I would have ordered the 2.7 but didn’t want to wait and only found 2 trucks in the area that matched my requirements and both had the 3.5eb.  Have not regretted it a bit.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×