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Let's Rename the Explorer: Torpedo!

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18 minutes ago, FR739 said:


Sales do not dictate the quality of a vehicle.  I think there was ample time to give the benefit of the doubt but these results show that its no longer warranted.  
 

And it’s not just the Explorer. It’s the Escape and the Lincoln variants. It’s well know quality took a huge step backwards under Hackett but I didn’t think it was this bad.  Thankfully I think Farley will get this under control.  He’s already reversed some of thinks Hackett did and hopefully that continues.  Having a minimum profit percentage at the expense of everything else is not a good idea.  

I knew quality suffered because Hackett never mentioned it once, that I can recall, it’s something that has to be talked about all the time or it falls in a heap that dealers can fix later. I was hoping that the huge loss Ford took in Q4 last year was the ass kick that Ford needed to mend their ways. They took another big hit in Q2 this year right when the pandemic reall started to bite hard.

Edited by jpd80

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40 minutes ago, FR739 said:

It’s the Escape


You've brought that up a few times yet I've seen absolutely nothing involving problems with 2020 Escapes (or Corsair for that matter). Even if you were counting the PHEV problems in Europe they traced that back to a supplier manufacturing problem I believe and likewise they wisely delayed production of those over here for a model year while it gets sorted out. 

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1 hour ago, FR739 said:

And it’s not just the Explorer. It’s the Escape and the Lincoln variants.

See my post from yesterday in the similar Lincoln thread.  My sisters Explorer XLT was built August 2019 and my daughters Escape 2.0 Titanium was built this June... both were defect free and they absolutely love them.  Our Aviator GT was built December 5th 2019 and hasn't been back to the dealer for anything.  The fit and finish is perfect.  If we still trusted anything CR prints we would have missed out on three fantastic 2020 Ford products, and in my case I would have missed out on the finest vehicle I have ever had the pleasure to experience.  My dealer sent these pics shortly after it was unloaded and I picked it up the same day, they didn't have to fix or adjust anything.

 

IMG_3499.jpg

IMG_3503.jpg

IMG_3507.jpg

Edited by CoolScoop

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46 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


You've brought that up a few times yet I've seen absolutely nothing involving problems with 2020 Escapes (or Corsair for that matter). Even if you were counting the PHEV problems in Europe they traced that back to a supplier manufacturing problem I believe and likewise they wisely delayed production of those over here for a model year while it gets sorted out. 

IMO, it takes a lot of guts to hit the pause button and avoid problems but I’m glad that Ford did that, they need the PHEV to be right first time.

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1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


You've brought that up a few times yet I've seen absolutely nothing involving problems with 2020 Escapes (or Corsair for that matter). Even if you were counting the PHEV problems in Europe they traced that back to a supplier manufacturing problem I believe and likewise they wisely delayed production of those over here for a model year while it gets sorted out. 


Outside of this conversation I’m not sure I have. 
 

But my comments are directly related to the quality results linked in the first post.  The numbers don’t lie.  And to dismiss quality issues because you don’t like the source is foolish.  If there weren’t issues the vehicle would fair better.  

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6 minutes ago, FR739 said:


Outside of this conversation I’m not sure I have. 
 

But my comments are directly related to the quality results linked in the first post.  The numbers don’t lie.  And to dismiss quality issues because you don’t like the source is foolish.  If there weren’t issues the vehicle would fair better.  


Im not dismissing anything, it literally effects my livelihood. All I'm saying is I haven't heard of any issues with Escape or Corsair outside of the PHEV stuff in Europe. 

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1 hour ago, CoolScoop said:

See my post from yesterday in the similar Lincoln thread.  My sisters Explorer XLT was built August 2019 and my daughters Escape 2.0 Titanium was built this June... both were defect free and they absolutely love them.  Our Aviator GT was built December 5th 2019 and hasn't been back to the dealer for anything.  The fit and finish is perfect.  If we still trusted anything CR prints we would have missed out on three fantastic 2020 Ford products, and in my case I would have missed out on the finest vehicle I have ever had the pleasure to experience.  My dealer sent these pics shortly after it was unloaded and I picked it up the same day, they didn't have to fix or adjust anything.

 

IMG_3499.jpg

IMG_3503.jpg

IMG_3507.jpg

Nice.  Is your aviator a job2?  My wife’s aviator is a job2 that we bought just before Christmas last year.  Hasn’t been back for service.  Probably due for an oil change soon.  It is a great car.  I never test drove or rode in it until after we bought it.  Went by my wife’s opinion that I would like driving it. She was correct.

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4 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

All I'm saying is I haven't heard of any issues with Escape or Corsair outside of the PHEV stuff in Europe. 

 

The main problem areas for both 2020 Escape and 2020 Corsair in the latest CR reliability survey are as follows. Corsair and Escape owners reported problems in these areas at a much higher frequency compared to the average 2020 car or light truck.

  • Body Integrity: Examples. Squeaks, rattles, wind noises, loose or cracked seals and/or weather-stripping, air and water leaks.
  • Power equipment: Examples. Cruise control, clock, warning lights, body control module, keyless entry, wiper motor or washer, tire pressure monitor, interior or exterior lights, horn, gauges, 12V power plug, remote engine start, alarm or security system
  • Transmission minor: Examples. Gear selector or linkage, leaks, transmission computer, transmission sensor or solenoid, clutch adjustment, rough shifting, slipping transmission.
  • In car electronics: Examples. Radio, speakers, GPS, communication system, display screen freezes or goes blank, phone pairing (e.g. Bluetooth), voice control commands, steering wheel controls, portable music device interface, backup or other camera/sensors.

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1 hour ago, FR739 said:


Sales do not dictate the quality of a vehicle.  I think there was ample time to give the benefit of the doubt but these results show that its no longer warranted.  
 

And it’s not just the Explorer. It’s the Escape and the Lincoln variants. It’s well know quality took a huge step backwards under Hackett but I didn’t think it was this bad.  Thankfully I think Farley will get this under control.  He’s already reversed some of thinks Hackett did and hopefully that continues.  Having a minimum profit percentage at the expense of everything else is not a good idea.  


From a business standpoint it’s only a big problem if warranty costs are too high or it affects sales.   Otherwise it’s just an annoyance and a small hit to customer satisfaction.  It is super annoying though,

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1 hour ago, CoolScoop said:

See my post from yesterday in the similar Lincoln thread.  My sisters Explorer XLT was built August 2019 and my daughters Escape 2.0 Titanium was built this June... both were defect free and they absolutely love them.  Our Aviator GT was built December 5th 2019 and hasn't been back to the dealer for anything.  The fit and finish is perfect.  If we still trusted anything CR prints we would have missed out on three fantastic 2020 Ford products, and in my case I would have missed out on the finest vehicle I have ever had the pleasure to experience.  My dealer sent these pics shortly after it was unloaded and I picked it up the same day, they didn't have to fix or adjust anything.

 

IMG_3499.jpg

 

 


What color is that?  I saw a Flight Blue Aviator today and it was much darker than I expected.  This looks a lot lighter.

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1 hour ago, akirby said:


What color is that?  I saw a Flight Blue Aviator today and it was much darker than I expected.  This looks a lot lighter.

It's the now discontinued Lincoln Blue Diamond / Ford Blue Metallic.  Here's a pic when it's clean:

 

0_PicsArt_03-28-10.53.07~2.jpg

Edited by CoolScoop

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10 minutes ago, CoolScoop said:

It's the now discontinued Lincoln Blue Diamond / Ford Blue Metallic.  


I wonder if Atlas Blue is close.  Hard to tell online and there weren’t any at the dealer.

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1 hour ago, akirby said:


I wonder if Atlas Blue is close.  Hard to tell online and there weren’t any at the dealer.

Not sure about Atlas Blue, I think its lighter and brighter (sportier) ... here's another pic of Blue/Blue Diamond without sun:

 

1606019897277_1606019893373_1606019888701_1606019879053_1606019876451_0_20200308_193239~2.jpg

Edited by CoolScoop

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1 hour ago, slemke said:

Nice.  Is your aviator a job2?  My wife’s aviator is a job2 that we bought just before Christmas last year.  Hasn’t been back for service.  Probably due for an oil change soon.  It is a great car.  I never test drove or rode in it until after we bought it.  Went by my wife’s opinion that I would like driving it. She was correct.

Yes, 2020 Job 2 builds for Explorers and Aviators started around 8/19/2019.  But Aviator Grand Touring production didn't start until the first week of December.

Edited by CoolScoop

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

The main problem areas for both 2020 Escape and 2020 Corsair in the latest CR reliability survey are as follows. Corsair and Escape owners reported problems in these areas at a much higher frequency compared to the average 2020 car or light truck.

  • Body Integrity: Examples. Squeaks, rattles, wind noises, loose or cracked seals and/or weather-stripping, air and water leaks.
  • Power equipment: Examples. Cruise control, clock, warning lights, body control module, keyless entry, wiper motor or washer, tire pressure monitor, interior or exterior lights, horn, gauges, 12V power plug, remote engine start, alarm or security system
  • Transmission minor: Examples. Gear selector or linkage, leaks, transmission computer, transmission sensor or solenoid, clutch adjustment, rough shifting, slipping transmission.
  • In car electronics: Examples. Radio, speakers, GPS, communication system, display screen freezes or goes blank, phone pairing (e.g. Bluetooth), voice control commands, steering wheel controls, portable music device interface, backup or other camera/sensors.

My daughter's Escape didn't have any of these issues... but being a June build, it was well into Job 3 production.  We've had fleets of each generation of Escapes at work since the early boxy models so I've driven them all extensively... and IMO the new 2020s are light-years better in every way than even the last Gen models.

Edited by CoolScoop

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6 hours ago, akirby said:


I wonder if Atlas Blue is close.  Hard to tell online and there weren’t any at the dealer.

 

The Atlas Blue is much brighter. 

Screenshot 2020-11-22 053816.jpg

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18 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


And that's not even a Ford problem, it's a supplier problem. 

 

Does the average consumer make that distinction? 

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31 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Does the average consumer make that distinction? 

A hybrid buyer is not your average buyer, they're inclined to be more knowledgeable about the product they're buying

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8 hours ago, akirby said:


From a business standpoint it’s only a big problem if warranty costs are too high or it affects sales.   Otherwise it’s just an annoyance and a small hit to customer satisfaction.  It is super annoying though,

I understand that the '21s are now over 50% of dealer inventory, the sell down is going well.

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Why should a company like Ford, having been in business since 1903,  have to improve quality?  THEY SHOULD ALREADY BE THERE!  THEY SHOULD BE ON THE TOP!  Is it just me?

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9 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

The main problem areas for both 2020 Escape and 2020 Corsair in the latest CR reliability survey are as follows. Corsair and Escape owners reported problems in these areas at a much higher frequency compared to the average 2020 car or light truck.

  • Body Integrity: Examples. Squeaks, rattles, wind noises, loose or cracked seals and/or weather-stripping, air and water leaks.
  • Power equipment: Examples. Cruise control, clock, warning lights, body control module, keyless entry, wiper motor or washer, tire pressure monitor, interior or exterior lights, horn, gauges, 12V power plug, remote engine start, alarm or security system
  • Transmission minor: Examples. Gear selector or linkage, leaks, transmission computer, transmission sensor or solenoid, clutch adjustment, rough shifting, slipping transmission.
  • In car electronics: Examples. Radio, speakers, GPS, communication system, display screen freezes or goes blank, phone pairing (e.g. Bluetooth), voice control commands, steering wheel controls, portable music device interface, backup or other camera/sensors.


Ok so literally one publication who's job it is to nitpick. Got it. 

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12 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Maybe time to take a breath and with how many Explorers being sold are problematic compared to the 20,000 odd being sold every month?

No matter how few, some problems are inexcusable but we need to look at that in respect to how many are sold to happy customers with no serious issues.

 

The internet is notorious for being a repository of bad news that gets magnified to the point where folks believe everything they read. All of our information is trust based, we trust what others are saying because it’s either single point first hand experience or comes from other sources those folks believe to be true. All I’d ask is that people keep an open mind......

 

Some validity to what you are saying but the bottom line is this is Ford's own fault and will have to pay the price. And you could say sales are strong but who knows, how many lost sales have occurred? Warranty costs are thru the roof and going to be hard to reduce much for the foresable future with new product launches, which always are more problematic early on. 

I think some of that will improve under Farley but he's not a miracle worker and Ford has never really put quality and reliability as a top priority, throughout their lineup. They've had a few vehicles that have done well but that is in the minority and I'm not sure why. You would think with the Ford family still controlling the company that they would at least give a shit about their own brand. But than again, this is the same family that owns the Lions:)

 

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1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Ok so literally one publication who's job it is to nitpick. Got it. 

 

They are not nitpicking! They look at data that consumers have supplied-not CR staff and share that with the public. Their is no conspiracy theory here and obviously the data supplied by the consumer is correct. For whatever reason, the Edge, has a good quality rating and pretty easy to see why.....they've had minor changes to that vehicle over the past 10 years and over time been able to improve the quality of the product. 

 

CoolScoop-glad to know that you've not had any issues (not any recalls either?)  and that color is gorgeous. 

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1 hour ago, Joe771476 said:

Why should a company like Ford, having been in business since 1903,  have to improve quality?  THEY SHOULD ALREADY BE THERE!  THEY SHOULD BE ON THE TOP!  Is it just me?


Quality is a business decision.  It requires continual investment of time and resources as well as (usually) longer product development timelines.  Very few companies make quality the highest priority because it’s simply too expensive.  Most companies strive for a balance of quality and speed and cost.  Ford has either gambled on cost cutting hoping that big problems don’t happen or as we saw with Explorer gambled on speed (not shutting down production long enough for a problem free launch).   When you gamble sometimes you lose.  Loss of knowledge and experience due to retirements and layoffs also plays a part.

 

Ford knows how to play it safe - look at F series.  I suspect Bronco will be the same just like Ranger.  Hopefully they can slow down a little and make quality a higher priority in 2021 and beyond.

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56 minutes ago, kyle said:

CoolScoop-glad to know that you've not had any issues (not any recalls either?)  and that color is gorgeous.

No recalls yet... knock on wood!  Yep, the Aviator looks awsome in Blue Diamond... and with all of the chatter about how bad the 2020s are and how everyone should wait to see if CR gives their all important blessing to the 2021 models, the fact that Blue Diamond has been discontinued for '21 gives us a good reason to be glad we didn't wait!

Edited by CoolScoop

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