Let's Rename the Explorer: Torpedo!

[ZanatWork]

...right into the hull of Ford's quality ratings.

Mazda first, Explorer Worst.

[akirby]

If they can’t fix CAP maybe they should just rebuild Flat Rock and move it all there.

[fuzzymoomoo]

26 minutes ago, akirby said:

If they can’t fix CAP maybe they should just rebuild Flat Rock and move it all there.

Selfishly I would hate this just because of the increased truck and train traffic around my house. Trucks coming out of FRAP already DGAF about oncoming traffic. Nearly every time I drive by there a truck pulls out in front of me, often times there's absolutely nobody else around. 

[kyle]

Has Ford ever been on the "BOTTOM" of this list?  Very embarassing when you are worse than Tesla and hopefully a big gut check. I'm looking forward to seeing how much they improve in the next year or two under Farley. This has to be a major major priority. 

[jasonj80]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Selfishly I would hate this just because of the increased truck and train traffic around my house. Trucks coming out of FRAP already DGAF about oncoming traffic. Nearly every time I drive by there a truck pulls out in front of me, often times there's absolutely nobody else around. 

We need to move more stuff by trains, there are too many trucks on the road as is. It seems that train traffic as all but evaporated in the past 5 years. I used to get stopped all over by trains around the area and now very seldom see or hear one. Ford/GM/FCA  don't move much by rail anymore; everything is just trucked around form plant to plant. 


The majority of truck drivers in of late  are just horrid drivers don't pay attention, don't really care and drive like absolute A*******. From not passing when they get in the left lane, to just pulling out in front of you, running red lights, tailgating, to drifting over into an adjacent lane when they are driving. The Gravel/Dirt haulers that don't cover their loads and speed as fast as possible with the double tandem trailers swaying as they go 85 down the interstate are just insane.

[fuzzymoomoo]

33 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

We need to move more stuff by trains, there are too many trucks on the road as is. It seems that train traffic as all but evaporated in the past 5 years. I used to get stopped all over by trains around the area and now very seldom see or hear one. Ford/GM/FCA  don't move much by rail anymore; everything is just trucked around form plant to plant. 

There was a rumor I saw on a railfan forum  not long ago that supposedly CN was looking to sell off Flat Rock yard and the line heading southwest out of it. Not sure what will come of it or who would by it since CN would retain both lines coming in from the other side. 
 

The NS line East of me is still pretty active, though I hear about half as many trains coming through as I used to pre-COVID lockdown. Traffic does seem to be picking up a little bit. They just replaced the rails on that one over the summer all the way through at least Wyandotte. 
 

The Conrail shared asset line through Wayne is still very busy and several times a day (while I'm at work that is) I hear NS shuttling cars around the line that cuts through the MAP complex (those 2 lines bisect each other just east of the plant). 

[blwnsmoke]

Not surprised, been saying it for months.  The explorer is plagued with issues.  Transmissions, electrical...   It is all over FB and the forums.  Every day I see another person posting.. and with pictures to prove it.

[paintguy]

How would Engines and Transmissions change if production of the vehicle is not at CAP?  At CAP, there is much to learn from the launch process of Explorer. Just because everyone reports "green" status at every step of the process, doesn't make it so.

[FR739]

I don’t think this is surprising at all.  There are some the deny there is any issues with the Chicago vehicles but ever since introduction they have been a disaster.  
 

I don’t know what Ford did differently with this very important vehicle launch but suffice to say they need to never do it again.  The true test will be when they launch some of the upcoming vehicles if they experience the same level of quality issues.  I’m very cautiously optimistic.  
 

Im surprised to see the Escape being as problematic as it is.  I haven’t heard of many issues but then perhaps the Explorer is stealing some of that spotlight (and not in a positive way). 
 

 

[351cid]

8 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

We need to move more stuff by trains, there are too many trucks on the road as is. It seems that train traffic as all but evaporated in the past 5 years. I used to get stopped all over by trains around the area and now very seldom see or hear one. Ford/GM/FCA  don't move much by rail anymore; everything is just trucked around form plant to plant. 


The majority of truck drivers in of late  are just horrid drivers don't pay attention, don't really care and drive like absolute A*******. From not passing when they get in the left lane, to just pulling out in front of you, running red lights, tailgating, to drifting over into an adjacent lane when they are driving. The Gravel/Dirt haulers that don't cover their loads and speed as fast as possible with the double tandem trailers swaying as they go 85 down the interstate are just insane.

Trouble with trains is that they operate on 19th century time lines. No one wants to wait 9 days for their delivery when a truck does it in 3.

 

This is where I wished I could defend my profession; but alas, I cannot. Several storms converged to hit the trucking industry. My entertainment at night is watching these modern day "truck drivers" attempt to park without tearing up hell & half of Georgia. The driving schools are turning out Commercial licenses like fake money. Then add in that society is degrading in the respect department as well as we are being micro managed by big brother (electronic logs).

 

With this being said....if the trucks stop; so will your life style. Every product you use comes to the retailer on a truck.

[351cid]

If Ford wants to survive, they better pick it up on the quality front. How the hell can you ask the prices for the junk they pedal? They might ought to put more focus on quality of today than focusing on electric Mustangs. Future products are important; but not if your reputation is shit. 

[jpd80]

Whatever is happening on the quality side doesn't seem to be  affecting sales that much.

Even with covid stoppages, Explorer sales were 21,000 last month and 181k for 10 Mths

and on track for 220,000 for the year.

 

[probowler]

Torpedo eh?

 

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer the Exploder.

[FordBuyer]

14 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Whatever is happening on the quality side doesn't seem to be  affecting sales that much.

Even with covid stoppages, Explorer sales were 21,000 last month and 181k for 10 Mths

and on track for 220,000 for the year.

 

I would hope the 2021 Explorer is much better than the launch year. The 2021 Explorers I have seen seem to have goog fit and finish. And I would hope there have been enough tweaks at CAP to make the 2021 model much better than the first year model.

 

As for the 2020 Escape, I have had no problems other than back up camera. Got recall notice in mail today. Parts not ready until end of December though. Not a big deal. Still getting better mileage than adverised.....about 49.5 mpg combined. I'm surprised the Corsair doesn't have good reliability ratings coming from same plant and same platform. Go figure, but then I have never trusted CR ratings.

 

The RAV 4 has had big issues with faulty fuel tanks and suspension issues and doesn't hurt Toyota quality ratings. And CRV engines have been nightmares for many. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

24 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

As for the 2020 Escape, I have had no problems other than back up camera. Got recall notice in mail today.

And that's not even a Ford problem, it's a supplier problem. 

[92merc]

Well, they rolled out a new Escape without much issue, and Corsair as well.  So Ford is capable of doing it.  Personally, they just need to give CAP a falcon punch to the management.  Top down review of management, product quality, assembly quality...

[akirby]

27 minutes ago, 92merc said:

Well, they rolled out a new Escape without much issue, and Corsair as well.  So Ford is capable of doing it.  Personally, they just need to give CAP a falcon punch to the management.  Top down review of management, product quality, assembly quality...

They replaced the plant manager shortly after the launch.

[rperez817]

7 minutes ago, akirby said:

They replaced the plant manager shortly after the launch.

 

Now what Ford needs to do is replace the Chiraq plant itself and move production somewhere else.

[mackinaw]

I'm not defending the Explorer's dismal quality ranking, but these surveys measure the past, not the present.  You got to hope that Ford has learned a valuable lesson and has taken the necessary steps to improve quality.  Farley did mention improving quality when he took over a few weeks back.

[FordBuyer]

3 hours ago, mackinaw said:

I'm not defending the Explorer's dismal quality ranking, but these surveys measure the past, not the present.  You got to hope that Ford has learned a valuable lesson and has taken the necessary steps to improve quality.  Farley did mention improving quality when he took over a few weeks back.

Ford has stated a couple times that Explorer launch problems are now fixed. Now either Ford is telling the truth or not. And that includes Aviator and police interceptors. If police departments are pissed off about their new Explorers, I'm sure we will hear about it shortly.

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

Ford has stated a couple times that Explorer launch problems are now fixed. Now either Ford is telling the truth or not. And that includes Aviator and police interceptors. If police departments are pissed off about their new Explorers, I'm sure we will hear about it shortly.

Well, Ford would like to think that  all problems are now in the rear mirror but as we know, some problems 

submerge and reemerge from time to time depending on the efficacy of the remedies, we all hope that the

MY21 models  signal a watershed change to past problems and improved quality.

 

As you mentioned earlier, Toyota RAV4 had its share of quality problems but it's continued strong sales

is example that existing quality problems don't necessarily scare off buyers, whether or not they're even

aware of issues is another matter.....

[FR739]

6 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Now what Ford needs to do is replace the Chiraq plant itself and move production somewhere else.

I think is a logical next step. Clearly firing the plant manager has not helped as the vehicles are still extremely problematic.  
 

Or clean house with everyone.  Clearly Ford knows how to launch and build reliable products.  But why they can’t get the children at Chicago under control is beyond me.

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, FR739 said:

But why they can’t get the children at Chicago under control is beyond me.

 

I think there are issues in the organizational culture of that plant that are not present at any other Ford facility. CAP has been known for being a hotbed of racism, sexism, street gang activity, etc.

[jpd80]

Maybe time to take a breath and with how many Explorers being sold are problematic compared to the 20,000 odd being sold every month?

No matter how few, some problems are inexcusable but we need to look at that in respect to how many are sold to happy customers with no serious issues.

 

The internet is notorious for being a repository of bad news that gets magnified to the point where folks believe everything they read. All of our information is trust based, we trust what others are saying because it’s either single point first hand experience or comes from other sources those folks believe to be true. All I’d ask is that people keep an open mind......

Edited November 22, 2020 by jpd80

[FR739]

7 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Maybe time to take a breath and with how many Explorers being sold are problematic compared to the 20,000 odd being sold every month?

No matter how few, some problems are inexcusable but we need to look at that in respect to how many are sold to happy customers with no serious issues.

 

The internet is notorious for being a repository of bad news that gets magnified to the point where folks believe everything they read. All of our information is trust based, we trust what others are saying because it’s either single point first hand experience or comes from other sources those folks believe to be true. All I’d ask is that people keep an open mind......

Sales do not dictate the quality of a vehicle.  I think there was ample time to give the benefit of the doubt but these results show that its no longer warranted.  
 

And it’s not just the Explorer. It’s the Escape and the Lincoln variants. It’s well know quality took a huge step backwards under Hackett but I didn’t think it was this bad.  Thankfully I think Farley will get this under control.  He’s already reversed some of thinks Hackett did and hopefully that continues.  Having a minimum profit percentage at the expense of everything else is not a good idea.