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Let's Rename the Explorer: Torpedo!

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5 minutes ago, CoolScoop said:

No recalls yet... knock on wood!  Yep, the Aviator looks awsome in Blue Diamond


Love Blue Diamond and Ocean Blue.  Not loving Flight Blue (too dark) and Blue Atlas (too bright) on the Corsair.  I guess it’s between Red Carpet and Ceramic Pearl.  I love Red Carpet but it’s the wife’s car and she historically prefers white/silver/grey.

 

We sat in the Corsair yesterday and found it quite roomy - almost as big as Nautilus inside.  The 24 way seats were nice.  Just have to decide on the power train.

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31 minutes ago, kyle said:

They are not nitpicking! They look at data that consumers have supplied-not CR staff and share that with the public. Their is no conspiracy theory here and obviously the data supplied by the consumer is correct. For whatever reason, the Edge, has a good quality rating and pretty easy to see why.....they've had minor changes to that vehicle over the past 10 years and over time been able to improve the quality of the product. 


If it's really that big of an issue why hasn't literally ANYONE else published a piece about it? 

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20 minutes ago, akirby said:

 I love Red Carpet but it’s the wife’s car and she historically prefers white/silver/grey.

Red Carpet is the same color as Ford's Rapid Red, both are color code D4.  My daughters new Escape Titanium is Rapid Red and it's drop dead gorgeous in that color.  The gloss black roof and grill and dark grey/almost black lower plastic trim really contrast well with it.  It was a $400 option on the Escape because it's a tinted clear coat paint, but it was worth the extra cost!

Edited by CoolScoop

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15 minutes ago, CoolScoop said:

Red Carpet is the same color as Ford's Rapid Red, both are color code D4.  My daughters new Escape Titanium is Rapid Red and it's drop dead gorgeous in that color.  The gloss black roof and grill and dark grey/almost black lower plastic trim really contrast well with it.  It was a $400 option on the Escape because it's a tinted clear coat paint, but it was worth the extra cost!


I have yet to see something that doesn't look good in that color. It even grew on me with Ranger. Best shade of red Ford has come out with in decades. 

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1 hour ago, kyle said:

Warranty costs are thru the roof and going to be hard to reduce much for the foresable future with new product launches, which always are more problematic early on. 

I think some of that will improve under Farley but he's not a miracle worker and Ford has never really put quality and reliability as a top priority, throughout their lineup.

 


I’m not sure why people get so defensive over this.  It’s not a bad thing to acknowledge that there are issues and attempt to fix them.  Ford should not get a free pass for how bad a lot of their recent new vehicles are/were.  But they should be given credit when those numbers improve.  I don’t really believe what any PR puppet says (Levine talking about internal surveys, etc) because the proof will be when the numbers come up.  Also this isn’t surprising. How many articles have been written on the abysmal quality of the (specifically) Chicago products?  This was coming.  
 

Ford themselves even acknowledge that, to put it bluntly, their quality sucks with talking about warranty costs in some sort of earnings call.  
 

For me, it’s most frustrating that, clearly, Ford knows how to get it right.  Specifically with trucks (although they should get the Ranger right as they had been making it for 7ish years before they brought it here).  They can do it.  But, for whatever reason, they abandoned their tried and true methods for the new Lincolns as well as the Escape and Explorer.  Thankfully now that Hackett is gone, I see Ford getting back to their tried and true methods of design, launching, and production and I think these numbers will improve.  

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3 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I have yet to see something that doesn't look good in that color. It even grew on me with Ranger. Best shade of red Ford has come out with in decades. 

I agree... it's a stunning red.  I admired a Mazda in a very similar color at my bus park and ride lot but Rapid Red/Red Carpet is even better, it didn't take long for my daughter to decide what color Escape to get.  We had to go out of state to find a Titanium 2.0 with premium package in Rapid Red.

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2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Ok so literally one publication who's job it is to nitpick. Got it. 

 

No sir, you didn't "get it". kyle did, and provided a good explanation earlier in this thread. You should also read the Car Reliability FAQ at CR. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/consumer-reports-car-reliability-faq/

Edited by rperez817

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4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

A hybrid buyer is not your average buyer, they're inclined to be more knowledgeable about the product they're buying

No issues with my new Escape hybrid other than back up camera. Can't speak for the 1.5 turbo motor Escapes and their 8 speed trans. Have to say, I would have bought another Crosstrek over the 3 cylinder Escape. No contest. Only Escape I like is the hybrid and maybe the 2.0 SEL with towing package. And the premium package is well worth the money.

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1 hour ago, kyle said:

Ford has never really put quality and reliability as a top priority, throughout their lineup. 

 

Well said kyle sir. The closest Ford came to making quality and reliability of its entire product lineup a priority at all was during the first few years of Alan Mullaly's term as CEO. 2007-2010. 

 

The other 2 major U.S. domestic automakers, GM and Tesla, also never made quality and reliability throughout their entire product lineups a top priority. But as I mentioned in the other CR reliability survey thread, reliability isn't the top priority for many automotive consumers either. 

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1 minute ago, FordBuyer said:

No issues with my new Escape hybrid other than back up camera. Can't speak for the 1.5 turbo motor Escapes and their 8 speed trans. Have to say, I would have bought another Crosstrek over the 3 cylinder Escape. No contest. Only Escape I like is the hybrid and maybe the 2.0 SEL with towing package. And the premium package is well worth the money.

 

Good to hear your Escape Hybrid has been treating you well FordBuyer sir. Ford appears to be in agreement with you about the appeal of hybrid powertrain in Escape. The 2021 Escape order guide indicates that hybrid is now available on all trims except the base S.

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23 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

No sir, you didn't "get it". kyle did, and provided a good explanation earlier in this thread. You should also read the Car Reliability FAQ at CR. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/consumer-reports-car-reliability-faq/


Yeah I'm not going to do that. Literally one publication says there's any problems (all of which you cited can literally happen at any time with any model at any company, not just Ford) and suddenly the sky is falling. No, I'm not going to take the bait. 

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1 hour ago, FR739 said:


I’m not sure why people get so defensive over this.  It’s not a bad thing to acknowledge that there are issues and attempt to fix them.  Ford should not get a free pass for how bad a lot of their recent new vehicles are/were.  But they should be given credit when those numbers improve.  I don’t really believe what any PR puppet says (Levine talking about internal surveys, etc) because the proof will be when the numbers come up.  Also this isn’t surprising. How many articles have been written on the abysmal quality of the (specifically) Chicago products?  This was coming.  
 

Ford themselves even acknowledge that, to put it bluntly, their quality sucks with talking about warranty costs in some sort of earnings call.  
 

For me, it’s most frustrating that, clearly, Ford knows how to get it right.  Specifically with trucks (although they should get the Ranger right as they had been making it for 7ish years before they brought it here).  They can do it.  But, for whatever reason, they abandoned their tried and true methods for the new Lincolns as well as the Escape and Explorer.  Thankfully now that Hackett is gone, I see Ford getting back to their tried and true methods of design, launching, and production and I think these numbers will improve.  


Nobody gave them a free pass at all.  But at the same time it’s not a disaster.  Read my post above for the explanation on why it’s happening.  Unless Farley slows down product development and launches in favor of more engineering and more testing it will continue.

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5 hours ago, jpd80 said:

A hybrid buyer is not your average buyer, they're inclined to be more knowledgeable about the product they're buying

 

Dear god, what a bunch of baloney. Let's take a survey of Toyota Prius buyers, or better yet, the current purchasers of RAV-4 hybrids, and let's see if they truly are more knowledgeable. Baloney.

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1 hour ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Dear god, what a bunch of baloney. Let's take a survey of Toyota Prius buyers, or better yet, the current purchasers of RAV-4 hybrids, and let's see if they truly are more knowledgeable. Baloney.

Well, Rav4 hybrid  buyers seem fine with only being able to get about 8 gallons into a 15 gallon fuel tank. I scratched Rav 4 off my list when I was looking because of that problem only. And CRV has had oil dilution problems and according to many Honda never fixed the problem totally. So scratched that off my possible list. So I was down to another Crosstrek or Escape hybrid. Easy choice as Escape hybrid won hands down. After 7 months of ownership, even though I liked my Crosstrek, I even like my Escape more. The Crosstrek PHEV is overpriced, overweight, undercargoed, and under ranged.

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2 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Dear god, what a bunch of baloney. Let's take a survey of Toyota Prius buyers, or better yet, the current purchasers of RAV-4 hybrids, and let's see if they truly are more knowledgeable. Baloney.

You're the one saying they're not so the burden is on you, off you go with that survey.

A lot of Toyota owners come from generational families that grew up with Toyota products,

it's almost natural that those folks would be exposed to ideas like hybrids and more open

to considering a hybrid.......what, you think those massive hybrid sales are coincidence?

 

No I kid, they're probable more aware than knowledgeable

Edited by jpd80

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3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Yeah I'm not going to do that. Literally one publication says there's any problems (all of which you cited can literally happen at any time with any model at any company, not just Ford) and suddenly the sky is falling. No, I'm not going to take the bait. 


I’ll sum it up up for you then. 
 

-CR sends surveys to consumers.  
-They received 329,000 responses. 
-All data was collected in the 2020 calendar year 

-Each model has between 200 and 300 samples on average. 
-They weight “major” issues heavier than others (vehicle being taken out of service for repair)

 

And let’s be honest.  It’s not one source, specifically for the Chicago vehicles.  There’s a member here that shared his experiences with those vehicles from a service standpoint (must be a tech or service manager).  Their username slips my memory right now.  

 

 

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58 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

Well, Rav4 hybrid  buyers seem fine with only being able to get about 8 gallons into a 15 gallon fuel tank. I scratched Rav 4 off my list when I was looking because of that problem only. And CRV has had oil dilution problems and according to many Honda never fixed the problem totally. So scratched that off my possible list. So I was down to another Crosstrek or Escape hybrid. Easy choice as Escape hybrid won hands down. After 7 months of ownership, even though I liked my Crosstrek, I even like my Escape more. The Crosstrek PHEV is overpriced, overweight, undercargoed, and under ranged.

Every manufacturer has faults and issues, some are bigger deals than others

and it's sad to think more than a few people find out the hard way that certain

vehicle faults seem to defy remedies. I really feel for anyone going through that.

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6 minutes ago, FR739 said:


I’ll sum it up up for you then. 
 

-CR sends surveys to consumers.  
-They received 329,000 responses. 
-All data was collected in the 2020 calendar year 

-Each model has between 200 and 300 samples on average. 
-They weight “major” issues heavier than others (vehicle being taken out of service for repair)

 

And let’s be honest.  It’s not one source, specifically for the Chicago vehicles.  There’s a member here that shared his experiences with those vehicles from a service standpoint (must be a tech or service manager).  Their username slips my memory right now.  

 

 

CR is more concerned with faults and things gone wrong instead of say, a positive outcome after being fixed.

And let's not kid ourselves that My Ford Touch problems saw Ford and Lincoln get dinged heavily over faults

with an infotainment system....so much for weighting issues.

 

Also same company that gave Tesla 103 out of 100 and then retracted a few months later...

Edited by jpd80

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8 hours ago, jpd80 said:

A hybrid buyer is not your average buyer, they're inclined to be more knowledgeable about the product they're buying

You and I must know very different Hybrid buyers. Almost all of the hybrid buyers I know would drive a toaster if it would get them to work; they don’t give a rip about the cars themselves. 

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43 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Also same company that gave Tesla 103 out of 100 and then retracted a few months later...

 

That's the road test score for 2012 Model S, not the reliability rating. Road test scores are based on evaluation by CR's own employees of specific cars and trucks driven at CR's test track and on surrounding roads. The survey data for the reliability ratings by contrast don't come from CR employees, but from CR members/subscribers who own specific cars and trucks.

 

Details about road test score vs other scores for cars at CR. https://www.consumerreports.org/cars-what-goes-into-consumer-reports-overall-score-for-cars/

Edited by rperez817

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2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

Well, Rav4 hybrid  buyers seem fine with only being able to get about 8 gallons into a 15 gallon fuel tank. I scratched Rav 4 off my list when I was looking because of that problem only.

 

This issue is confirmed by the 2020 CR car reliability survey. 2019 and 2020 RAV4 owners reported "fuel system" problems at a much higher frequency than the average 2019 and 2020 vehicles. In addition to the fuel tank issue you described, there were many reports of faulty fuel pumps as well in RAV4 which eventually led to a safety recall.

 

Fuel system problems dragged down RAV4's overall reliability rating to the lowest of any current Toyota model, though it's still close to average for all cars in the CR survey.

Screenshot 2020-11-22 at 4.22.49 PM.png

Edited by rperez817

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25 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

That's the road test score for 2012 Model S, not the reliability rating. Road test scores are based on evaluation by CR's own employees of specific cars and trucks driven at CR's test track and on surrounding roads. The survey data for the reliability ratings by contrast don't come from CR employees, but from CR members/subscribers who own specific cars and trucks.

 

Details about road test score vs other scores for cars at CR. https://www.consumerreports.org/cars-what-goes-into-consumer-reports-overall-score-for-cars/

So let me get this right, the data comes from CR members and subscribers, not the entire sales population?

 

what actual sample size do they use?

 

Edited by jpd80

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18 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

So let me get this right, the data comes from CR members and subscribers, not the entire sales population?

 

what actual sample size do they use?

 

I still remember whe CR wouldn't recommend the Ford Probe, but did the Mazda version built st same plant, platform and drivetrain. I believe CR did the same to the Mazda derived Escort vs the Mazda version. That's when I didn't trust CR conclusions anymore. 

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57 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

So let me get this right, the data comes from CR members and subscribers, not the entire sales population?

 

what actual sample size do they use?

 


Yes they only survey subscribers who may not be the most objective.  But the sample size is 200-300 out of 180k vehicles which is tiny.

Edited by akirby

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