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Harley Lover

Ford picks Cologne plant to build new EV in Europe

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Story is based on local media reports:

Quote

Ford Motor has chosen its factory in Cologne, Germany, to build a mass-market electric car based on Volkswagen Group's MEB electric architecture, local media reports said.

The automaker will invest 1 billion euros ($1.2 billion) into the factory for EV production, according a report in the Cologne newspaper, the Koelner Stadt-Anzeiger, and other media.

Ford picked Cologne over its factory in Craiova, Romania, the Stadt-Anzeiger said, citing sources close to the automaker.

 

 

Interesting to note the significant investment into the Cologne plant - I had the mistaken impression that using MEB would mean that Ford would almost be building knock off kits from VW. That's obviously not the case, and good news for the local work force, as well as Ford's German engineering center:

Quote

Ford's MEB-based electric car is being designed and engineered at the automaker's European development center in Merkenich, near Cologne. The car is expected to go on sale in 2023.

Ford is considering whether to add a second MEB-based car, Ford of Europe President Stuart Rowley told Automotive News Europe in March.

Ford's EVs will be very different from MEB cars sold by VW, Rowley said. "We are very focused on the fact that these products will be Fords. They will look like a Ford, drive like a Ford, feel like a Ford and will be built by Ford," he said.

Ford has said it expects to deliver more than 600,000 MEB-based vehicles in Europe over a six-year period starting in 2023.

 

 

We need to start keeping a running total of Ford's plant EV announcements. 

 

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/ford-picks-german-plant-build-new-ev-reports-say?utm_source=breaking-news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20201130&utm_content=hero-headline

Edited by Harley Lover

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Man, that’s great news for Europe and Rest of the World markets,

so much input from Ford means that the vehicle will be very different 

to its VW cousins.

I hope that they go with a second MEB based vehicle to hit home

the change in direction, refreshing that it’s actually happening.

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From what I can tell the MEB platform that Ford is going to be using is just like any other platform sharing they’ve done with say Mazda-it will use VWs skateboard (motor and batteries), but the rest of it will be Ford or at least Ford tuned to their specifications. 

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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

From what I can tell the MEB platform that Ford is going to be using is just like any other platform sharing they’ve done with say Mazda-it will use VWs skateboard (motor and batteries), but the rest of it will be Ford or at least Ford tuned to their specifications. 

That's sort of the way they were going to go with the canceled Rivian-derived BEV flagship. Rivian skateboard but everything else FMC designed. Difference was it was going to come off of Rivian's line.

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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

From what I can tell the MEB platform that Ford is going to be using is just like any other platform sharing they’ve done with say Mazda-it will use VWs skateboard (motor and batteries), but the rest of it will be Ford or at least Ford tuned to their specifications. 

Correct, the top hat is where the noticeable distinction begins, all the things that are seen, touched, felt and sat in and smelled all come from a Ford factory. That visual DNA extends to the ride, the feel, the performance and handling.

 

people who were thinking that the Ford MEBs  would be a sad clown, badge engineered copy of something produced over at VW are in for a rude shock.

 

 The only reservation I have is VW switch gear, if Ford uses its own switchgear then I think they’ll pull this off as a very special vehicle.

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My understanding is the Rivian is still a go, it just won’t be a Lincoln.

 

There were rumors of a NA MEB based mini-Mach-E. Anyone see anything about that recently?

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7 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

That's sort of the way they were going to go with the canceled Rivian-derived BEV flagship. Rivian skateboard but everything else FMC designed. Difference was it was going to come off of Rivian's line.

I’m hoping that Jim Farley rethinks and reverses that decision, I think that Ford and Lincoln  needs to fill up the armoury with lots of good BEVs to battle in the future. I think it would serve Ford  wel to have as many options as possible.

Edited by jpd80

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I’m wondering if the F150 BEV will be lower range, and if Ford didn’t decide to use the Rivian platform for a range topping truck instead of a Lincoln. BEV Truck is a more worthwhile battle for Ford than luxury BEV IMHO. 

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I know that Lincoln truck never sold in great numbers but I wish they’d try again with the modern stuff, it might surprise.....

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2 hours ago, sullynd said:

There were rumors of a NA MEB based mini-Mach-E. Anyone see anything about that recently?

 

I don't see the point in NA-small cars don't sell very well and if they do, its because they are cheap. 

 

Unless Ford is planning on a higher end small CUV that slots into the B slot or maybe as a entry level Lincoln CUV?

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4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I’m hoping that Jim Farley rethinks and reverses that decision, I think that Ford and Lincoln  needs to fill up the armoury with lots of good BEVs to battle in the future. I think it would serve Ford  wel to have as many options as possible.


i agree.  I want to see that Lincoln BEV that Rivian was to build

Edited by rmc523

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5 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I don't see the point in NA-small cars don't sell very well and if they do, its because they are cheap. 

 

Unless Ford is planning on a higher end small CUV that slots into the B slot or maybe as a entry level Lincoln CUV?

 

It's just a matter of time that C-size CUVs transition to EV - I can't see how Ford will even attempt to make another generation of Escape that has an ICE up front. We are seeing a wave of D-size EV CUVs in 2021 which can support the $40-$60k price point. In another 2 or 3 years, with stabilized volume on existing EV, you will see another wave of $25k-$40k EV CUVs. The 2025 CAFE, even in its modified form, pretty much requires wholesale fleet adoption of EVs and PHEVs other than vehicles with large footprints (i.e. fullsize pickup trucks). This is why I kept saying 2021~22 is probably the last possible time frame you will see ICE only new vehicles like Bronco come on to the market. I know this forum is full of climate change deniers and EV non-believers but this change is inevitable... Plug-in vehicles (EV and PHEV) sales exceeded 12% in EU in October. Plug-in vehicle sales are about to cross 10% of total sales in California in 2020. These are significant benchmarks and there is no sign the market trend is going to reverse. I feel pretty confident to predict that we will probably see 20% in Europe and 15% in California by the end of 2021, and probably 1/3 and 1/4 by the end of 2022 - and basically 75~80% by end of 2025 in both. The rest of the US will trail California but not that far behind.

Edited by bzcat

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2 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

It's just a matter of time that C-size CUVs transition to EV - I can't see how Ford will even attempt to make another generation of Escape that has an ICE up front. 

I was under the impression that the MEB was on the smaller end of the C market or B sized product. Plus I think Ford would want to protect that part of its profilo since they have so many products based off its own C platform, instead of depending on VW. 
 

as for EV adoption-IMO we are still 8-10 years out for widespread adoption. Given the simple fact that people are keeping cars longer and there is still a ton of range issues (real or imagined) and charging issues for people living in higher density housing. 

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Remember those analysts that thought Ford should sell off European operations.

 

I guess they forgot of who really controls the company. The family was never going to let that happen. 

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2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

I was under the impression that the MEB was on the smaller end of the C market or B sized product. Plus I think Ford would want to protect that part of its profilo since they have so many products based off its own C platform, instead of depending on VW. 
 

as for EV adoption-IMO we are still 8-10 years out for widespread adoption. Given the simple fact that people are keeping cars longer and there is still a ton of range issues (real or imagined) and charging issues for people living in higher density housing. 

I think that C2 will eventually give way to MEB in some areas, especially since the MEB chassis is independent of the top hats that Ford will be developing 

 

Also, VW Caddy replacing Transit Connect in the near future.

 

It feels like Ford is going back to some regionalism, I think that’s good because one size/ style doesn’t suit all markets, not when you ask premium prices.

Edited by jpd80

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8 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

It's just a matter of time that C-size CUVs transition to EV - I can't see how Ford will even attempt to make another generation of Escape that has an ICE up front. We are seeing a wave of D-size EV CUVs in 2021 which can support the $40-$60k price point. In another 2 or 3 years, with stabilized volume on existing EV, you will see another wave of $25k-$40k EV CUVs. The 2025 CAFE, even in its modified form, pretty much requires wholesale fleet adoption of EVs and PHEVs other than vehicles with large footprints (i.e. fullsize pickup trucks). This is why I kept saying 2021~22 is probably the last possible time frame you will see ICE only new vehicles like Bronco come on to the market. I know this forum is full of climate change deniers and EV non-believers but this change is inevitable... Plug-in vehicles (EV and PHEV) sales exceeded 12% in EU in October. Plug-in vehicle sales are about to cross 10% of total sales in California in 2020. These are significant benchmarks and there is no sign the market trend is going to reverse. I feel pretty confident to predict that we will probably see 20% in Europe and 15% in California by the end of 2021, and probably 1/3 and 1/4 by the end of 2022 - and basically 75~80% by end of 2025 in both. The rest of the US will trail California but not that far behind.

 

I don't know if there are climate change "deniers" here, as much as being more realistic with analysis of it - in that it's been a "sky is falling next year" thing for 20-30 years (first global cooling, then it's global warming, now it's just "climate change").  Not to get off on a tangent, but I believe it's both naturally cyclical and that we have an effect.  I see deforestation as a big problem, and that obviously affects the climate because of oxygen/co2 production/"scrubbing".  Plus the fact that EVs are not all roses - maybe they're cleaner on an individual level vs ICE emissions, but that ignores the additional power generation needed (which, I'm sorry, is not all coming from renewable - not feasible right now) and the mining for the elements to make the batteries - factors that are conveniently ignored by EV supporters.  I'm not against EV, just the negatives need to be pointed out too, and not ignored.

 

As for EV adoption - naturally percentages will increase from the 0 they started at.......but when you have governments subsidizing their sales, and mandating EVs, obviously sales will have to increase and have "no sign the market trend is going to reverse" - government literally won't allow it lol.  Or you can still buy or have an ICE but you can't drive it to X, Y, Z locations...

point is - it's not 100% organic growth.

 

6 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

I was under the impression that the MEB was on the smaller end of the C market or B sized product. Plus I think Ford would want to protect that part of its profilo since they have so many products based off its own C platform, instead of depending on VW. 
 

as for EV adoption-IMO we are still 8-10 years out for widespread adoption. Given the simple fact that people are keeping cars longer and there is still a ton of range issues (real or imagined) and charging issues for people living in higher density housing. 

 

This is a big issue too.  A buddy of mine was considering a Tesla, but lives in an older condo building, with nowhere to charge it.  It just really ties in to the overall electric/charging/infrastructure issue.

Edited by rmc523

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17 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

I was under the impression that the MEB was on the smaller end of the C market or B sized product. Plus I think Ford would want to protect that part of its profilo since they have so many products based off its own C platform, instead of depending on VW. 
 

as for EV adoption-IMO we are still 8-10 years out for widespread adoption. Given the simple fact that people are keeping cars longer and there is still a ton of range issues (real or imagined) and charging issues for people living in higher density housing. 

 

MEB is scalable from B-segment to E-segment just like VW's other platforms. ID.3 is C-segment Golf size hatchabck. ID.4 is a large C or small D CUV like Tiguan.  ID.5 is the coupe version of ID.4. There is an ID.2 planned which is B-segment Polo size hatchback. And ID.Buzz which is a C-segment retro van, and ID.Vizzion, which is a D-segment wagon to replace Passat. 

 

Ford is primarily interested in using MEB for B and C segment vehicles as it plans to use its own Model E platform for D and E segment CUVs. MACH E is the same size as ID.4 or ID.5 and the known future models planned for production in North America are all D (Edge) or E (Explorer) segment size. 

 

 

Edited by bzcat

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1 hour ago, bzcat said:

 

MEB is scalable from B-segment to E-segment just like VW's other platforms. ID.3 is C-segment Golf size hatchabck. ID.4 is a large C or small D CUV like Tiguan.  ID.5 is the coupe version of ID.4. There is an ID.2 planned which is B-segment Polo size hatchback. And ID.Buzz which is a C-segment retro van, and ID.Vizzion, which is a D-segment wagon to replace Passat.

 

 

 

There's also ID.6 for China.

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The major issue with electric cars that I fear as a city planner is that when they become cheaper/comparable to operate as a ICE, they could worsen sprawl. That would led to further deforestation, habitat loss, greater impervious surfaces, pollution, loss of water quality, etc.

 

Truly a double-edged sword I am afraid. 

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47 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

The major issue with electric cars that I fear as a city planner is that when they become cheaper/comparable to operate as a ICE, they could worsen sprawl.

 

Good point ausrutherford sir. In addition to the automotive industry moving to electric vehicles, they are also moving to autonomous vehicles and mobility services. That may reduce the number of personally owned and operated automobiles. When combined with good urban planning that emphasizes high density population and employment centers, that may mitigate sprawl. Or at least ensure that it doesn't become much worse than it is now. 

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54 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

The major issue with electric cars that I fear as a city planner is that when they become cheaper/comparable to operate as a ICE, they could worsen sprawl. That would led to further deforestation, habitat loss, greater impervious surfaces, pollution, loss of water quality, etc.

 

Truly a double-edged sword I am afraid. 

That's going to happen anyway, the cars might as well be EVs to lessen the environmental impact. One of the biggest losers coming out of the pandemic will be mass transit. 50 commuters sitting/standing in a bus or subway car doesn't seem appealing anymore to most people.

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29 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Good point ausrutherford sir. In addition to the automotive industry moving to electric vehicles, they are also moving to autonomous vehicles and mobility services. That may reduce the number of personally owned and operated automobiles. When combined with good urban planning that emphasizes high density population and employment centers, that may mitigate sprawl. Or at least ensure that it doesn't become much worse than it is now. 

 

You're totally wrong of course. IF vehicles ever truly become autonomous, there will be MORE traffic and MORE sprawl. People will live farther out because they can. Living 50 miles from work? No problem! If the car's doing the driving, I can watch TV, play video games or even take a nap. People that can't or won't drive will be able to ride anywhere by themselves. That crowded shopping or entertainment district will get more crowded once you can be dropped off by your car and it parks itself. And the 17 million people who buy new cars in a typical year will continue to do so. Which of course creates a similar number of used cars.  To convert a large number of commutes to autonomous taxis is simply not feasible. You would need a very large fleet of taxis that for at least 75% of them, would mean sitting idle 20 hours a day. That's a great way to go broke.

Edited by AGR

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The other factor is this-since COVID happened, people who can work from home will most likely still be working at home, since it been proven that people can do there jobs effectively. With that said, that might actually drive down the amount of cars on the road...I was actually thinking about selling my car now (since I go into work maybe 2 times a month, if that) since I barely use it and I'd get more $$$ towards my down payment on my Bronco. But my wife started a new job and she has to use her car every day now, so that shot that idea down. 

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43 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Good point ausrutherford sir. In addition to the automotive industry moving to electric vehicles, they are also moving to autonomous vehicles and mobility services. That may reduce the number of personally owned and operated automobiles. When combined with good urban planning that emphasizes high density population and employment centers, that may mitigate sprawl. Or at least ensure that it doesn't become much worse than it is now. 

 

Good urban planning only goes as far as the local politicians are willing to push it.

 

Unfortunately, whether republican or democrat, that only happens in a minor few jurisdictions.

 

Why? Housing loans and the property tax system in almost every state incentivize sprawl.

 

Also, autonomous vehicles will likely make commute times shorter for the vehicles will be able to drive faster yet safer than human drivers would feel comfortable with and accidents would be drastically reduced. 

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