JTL2017 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 https://www.motortrend.com/cars/lincoln/navigator/2020/2020-bmw-x7-2021-cadillac-escalade-lincoln-navigator-mercedes-benz-gls-class-3-row-luxury-suv-comparison-test-review/ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTL2017 Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 I really like the Navigator but I was surprised with this result. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 I think this test really validates Ford's decision to use 3.5 EB as the only engine for Navigator. Cadillac lost mainly because its 6.2 V8 can't keep up with the endless power of Lincoln. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 I expected the Escalade to win. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Not bad to win the segment *before* your MCE hits... 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTL2017 Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I expected the Escalade to win. Same. I thought the technology would’ve put the Escalade on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 10 minutes ago, PREMiERdrum said: Not bad to win the segment *before* your MCE hits... I'm still wondering if it's going to get more than an increased center screen size inside. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 First Bronco Sport and now Navigator. Did Farley open up the checkbook to Motor Trend? 1 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, akirby said: First Bronco Sport and now Navigator. Did Farley open up the checkbook to Motor Trend? He opened the checkbook to let the engineers and designers do their thing... and probably a few comp'd martini lunches with the MT folks. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, akirby said: First Bronco Sport and now Navigator. Did Farley open up the checkbook to Motor Trend? LOL so cynical ? I think really, this is again Ford's PR team at work. If this was a few years ago, Motor Trend would have spent 2 pages talking about how old the Navigator is vs. the three fresh entries. Instead, the age if Navigator is a passing sentence. Same with Bronco Sport... no doubt they would have hammered Ford for the plastic steering wheel on the Bronco Sport and how it is a symptom of Ford's cost cutting. Instead, it was one sentence and they went on to tell you how great is the rest of the car. Investment in PR pays off in the long run. You don't change perception by only making better products. You have to actively herd the media into repeating it for you. Edited February 8, 2021 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 I read it this morning and was surprised being that this iteration is on its final leg. This may sound hokey, but I think this is the Navigator being what Lincoln is and not trying chase something it isn’t. This should be Lincoln’s bread and butter...and it is. I can’t wait to see what they come up with for the refresh. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dequindre Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 You can't go wrong with the Navigator or Escalade. I'm just glad to see American luxury automakers dominating at least one segment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlcorbett Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Surprising, but this is the first comparo with the black label and another suv other than the escalade. There was one where a bl was up against the last gen escalade plat, but that was in 2018. Ford has an opportunity to rele separate itself by taking the refresh seriously and tightening up some of these complaints, these complaints are universal for every critic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Bronco Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 My father just cross shopped all these brands. We test drove the GLS, Cadillac XT6, Aviator and BMW X7. At the time the new Escalade wasn't out but he wanted something smaller anyways... hence why we looked at the Aviator and the XT6. There was a long time there where I really thought he would go with the Mercedes or the BMW but at the end of the day, the Lincoln Aviator interior and price point was too much. He has an Ocean Drive Blue Aviator on the way.... just in time to match my Area 51 Bronco ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) The Navigator would have scored even better if Lincoln didn't force Black Label vehicles to ride on rubber band wheels (ok, that's hyperbole, but still big wheels with harder-riding low-profile tires). I am so tired of automakers forcing them on customers if they want options available only in the high trim. Fine if buyers want them, but hey, at least give them a choice. Noted from the article: " 'The Lincoln suffers the same fine ride quality issue as the Cadillac,' Evans said. 'Both cars suffer the same big-wheels/skinny-sidewalls syndrome, but you feel it more in the Lincoln.' " Ok, I can understand it if the vehicle is a sports car, but as the article noted, "Whereas there's an unmistakable sporty pretense to the way the BMW, Cadillac, and Mercedes drive, the Navigator harkens back to an almost forgotten era where sporty cars were sporty and luxury cars were truly luxurious." (...and the article meant that in a good sense.) Edited February 9, 2021 by Gurgeh 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 15 hours ago, jcartwright99 said: I read it this morning and was surprised being that this iteration is on its final leg. This may sound hokey, but I think this is the Navigator being what Lincoln is and not trying chase something it isn’t. This should be Lincoln’s bread and butter...and it is. I can’t wait to see what they come up with for the refresh. Lincoln was kind of forced into this, but I think it was for the best. GM was trying to force Caddy to be a German Luxury fighter when they should have just pursued their own take on Luxury and just add performance models if they truly wanted to go after the Germans on that level. Luxury cars are bought on image and what people perceive what they are-part of the reason why leased BMW 3 series and Lexus ES where so popular about 10-15 years ago. It gave someone with some means to be able to brag about owning a BMW or Lexus, due to their success with higher end products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 52 minutes ago, Gurgeh said: The Navigator would have scored even better if Lincoln didn't force Black Label vehicles to ride on rubber band wheels (ok, that's hyperbole, but still big wheels with harder-riding low-profile tires). I am so tired of automakers forcing them on customers if they want options available only in the high trim. Fine if buyers want them, but hey, at least give them a choice. Noted from the article: " 'The Lincoln suffers the same fine ride quality issue as the Cadillac,' Evans said. 'Both cars suffer the same big-wheels/skinny-sidewalls syndrome, but you feel it more in the Lincoln.' " Ok, I can understand it if the vehicle is a sports car, but as the article noted, "Whereas there's an unmistakable sporty pretense to the way the BMW, Cadillac, and Mercedes drive, the Navigator harkens back to an almost forgotten era where sporty cars were sporty and luxury cars were truly luxurious." (...and the article meant that in a good sense.) I've found that Ford's 20 and 21 inch wheel packages ride just as well as the smaller wheels thanks to suspension tuning. I can't speak for 22s and maybe the differences are more pronounced on really bad roads but I was pleasantly surprised with the 21s on our MKX. I was also unpleasantly surprised when trying to buy replacements with only one real tire choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Gurgeh said: I am so tired of automakers forcing them on customers if they want options available only in the high trim. Fine if buyers want them, but hey, at least give them a choice. Yes sir Gurgeh, I completely agree! Sadly, this lack of choice is becoming more and more widespread, and almost all automakers are guilty. ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 22" is really pushing it now if you value ride comfort. Tire technology haven't caught up with it yet but I have no doubt in 2 or 3 years time, these 22" will ride just fine. 22" is the new 20" - I remember when 20" first became normal for SUVs around 2013 and there were lots of complaints about ride comfort too but not so much now as tires got better and car makers have also learned to tune the suspension to work with these new and improved tires. In fact, 20" is almost now considered the minimal size you should accept on mid to large SUVs because anything smaller will not be able to handle the power output from crazy turbo charged engines (and to some extent, the weight) car companies are putting in their SUVs. And flashback to the mid 90s... I remember the uproar when 16" and 17" wheels became optional literally overnight on a lot of the midsize family cars like Accord and Maxima. That was when 15" was still considered a performance car wheel size in some cars and 13" and 14" were the norm. Thinking back now, you have to chuckle at the nervous hand wringing... How are people going to survive these rubber band tires and harsh rides on a family sedan! Think of the children! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 It should also be pointed out that there is a huge difference between aftermarket 20"+ wheels and factory wheels. The suspension and tires have all been tuned for the larger factory wheels. Not so with aftermarket. Going from a 18" OEM wheel to 22" aftermarket is most likely a disaster as far as ride quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FR739 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Clearly paid for right? Because it’s Motor Trend and they are very anti Ford. I know I read that somewhere. Farley must have infused the PR/advertising budget with a lot of cash. All that aside I’m not surprised by 3 and 4. But 1 and 2 really did surprise me. Objectively the Cadillac has a better interior and powertrain and subjectively I think it looks better. The Lincoln grille reminds me of a fish. It will be interesting to see if other publications are paid to...I mean....reach the same conclusion. At the end of the day, both are extremely nice vehicles that are uniquely American which is why they are so popular. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 minute ago, FR739 said: All that aside I’m not surprised by 3 and 4. But 1 and 2 really did surprise me. Objectively the Cadillac has a better interior and powertrain and subjectively I think it looks better. The Lincoln grille reminds me of a fish. Objectively, Lincoln has better powertrain. Preference for V8 is subjective. Power is power and Lincoln had oodles of it and Cadillac ran out of steam before Lincoln. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 hour ago, FR739 said: Clearly paid for right? Because it’s Motor Trend and they are very anti Ford. I know I read that somewhere. Farley must have infused the PR/advertising budget with a lot of cash. It’s a definite possibility. https://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19991027/press002043.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, akirby said: It’s a definite possibility. https://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19991027/press002043.html Damn you had to go back to almost 22 years ago? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Damn you had to go back to almost 22 years ago? LOL As far as I know you still have to submit your marketing plan along with your vehicle entry so no reason to think it's changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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