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All Stellantis brands will be funded for next 10 years

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Stellantis CEO says brands have 10 years to prove their worth (detroitnews.com)

 

Stellantis brands.

  • Abarth
  • Alfa Romeo
  • Chrysler
  • Citroën
  • Dodge
  • DS
  • Fiat
  • Fiat Professional
  • Jeep
  • Lancia
  • Maserati
  • Mopar
  • Opel
  • Peugeot
  • Ram
  • Vauxhall

 

"All 14 brands of Stellantis NV will have a decade of support and funding to prove their ability to rebound or grow, and their products will be developed in the regions where they are sold, CEO Carlos Tavares said Thursday. 



"For the time being, we love them all," Tavares said from his home in Portugal during an Automotive News World Congress webinar. "Each (brand) CEO has 10 years for which I am telling him or her that he has the funding, the ability to build his long-term business plan and plan for the different product launches and technologies to make the brand grow or rebound and create value for the company."

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Sounds like PR spin to me. I can't believe for a minute they won't find justification to cut the ranks in just a few years.

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So basically Chrysler/Dodge's current products will be around unchanged for another 10 years and then kaput?

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1 hour ago, ice-capades said:

Sounds like PR spin to me. I can't believe for a minute they won't find justification to cut the ranks in just a few years.


If not they’re not very smart.  No way they can justify keeping both dodge and Chrysler for the next 10 years.  I’m sure the same is true for the European brands.

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10 minutes ago, akirby said:

I’m sure the same is true for the European brands.

 

Vauxhall in particular seems doomed. Currently that brand is only used in one country.

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Vauxhall only requires minimal investment compared to other brands, just badges. They would make a RHD version no matter whether it's an Opel or Vauxhall. Its future is obviously tied to Opel's. The big problem is the mainstream European brands. How do you rationalize Peugeot, Citroen, Fiat and Opel/Vauxhall? In the premium segment, Lancia is down to a single model in one country, DS is mostly a synthetic brand, and trying to build Alfa Romeo into a big volume premium brand has been a money pit. I think that trying to rebuild Dodge and Chrysler while keeping them differentiated is the least of Stellantis' problems. The main issue  in North America is that while Dodge is the stronger brand, the company has always been CHRYSLER, or had Chrysler in its name.

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Maserati has been hurting for years. They want to be viewed as a high end brand, but folks that are willing to spend 100k+ on a luxury vehicle rather buy other brands. CNBC has a good video about Maserati, and how they plan to get back to some level of respect. Check it out here. Given the issues laid out in the video, I doubt 10 years is really needed to determine if Maserati is worth saving.

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On 5/15/2021 at 2:05 PM, rperez817 said:

 

Vauxhall in particular seems doomed. Currently that brand is only used in one country.

And Lancia as well which is only sold in Italy.

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On 5/15/2021 at 1:56 PM, akirby said:


If not they’re not very smart.  No way they can justify keeping both dodge and Chrysler for the next 10 years.  I’m sure the same is true for the European brands.

I can at least see a case for keeping Chrysler if they badge engineer Peugeot, Citroen, DS, or Opel products for the American market, and not sell those brands here and keep Chrysler as a North American brand.

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3 hours ago, atomcat68 said:

I can at least see a case for keeping Chrysler if they badge engineer Peugeot, Citroen, DS, or Opel products for the American market, and not sell those brands here and keep Chrysler as a North American brand.

 

Then ditch Dodge.  Still no reason to have both.

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I'd say that Chrysler has got to go for sure. It's a joke of a car company. Stand-up comedians have literally done jokes about that fake looking phantom Chrysler created years back, and Chrysler vehicles always need repairs. I think Dodge has a solid fan base. The Hell Cat seems to be a really popular trim. 

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5 hours ago, akirby said:

 

Then ditch Dodge.  Still no reason to have both.

 

In related news, Stellantis announced a replacement brand for Dodge, named Hellcat Motors.   Lol.

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28 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

In related news, Stellantis announced a replacement brand for Dodge, named Hellcat Motors.   Lol.


That would make more sense.

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The biggest issue with Chrysler and Dodge is one is a wannabe Luxury car or premium (like Mercury or Buick) nameplate that has almost no products and Dodge is akin to what Pontiac was before it got killed off. 

 

Neither brand has that great a of a reputation IMO.

 

Personally I'd focus on Ram and add a few crossover based Ram products that are shared with Jeep and kill Chrysler and Dodge off. At least what is what the market seems like what it wants. 

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Posted (edited)

10 years is not a plan... it is Stellantis waving the white flag at European nationalism and deciding to do nothing. This is the same problem Sergio had with Fiat and he couldn't fix it so he merged the problem with Chrysler. And PSA has the same problem after it took over Opel and so they "fix" it by merging with FCA and kick the can down the road. But this is truly a case of 2+2=5 kind of problem... it gets bigger and more difficult to solve.

 

First, the problem is strictly an European one. Stellantis doesn't have an issue with overlapping brands in North America. It operates only two dealer networks here: Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram and Alfa Romeo/Maserati. And there is very little product overlap... e.g. there is no Ram sedan or Alfa Romeo pickup trucks, and there is no Chrysler SUV or Jeep minivan so Stellantis is not wasting money duplicating 4 identical cars. Fiat is the only redundant brand here and it is on the way out.


Now let's go to Europe and unpack the problem. Stellantis has 4 mainstream brands: Peugeot, Citroen, Opel/Vauxhall, and Fiat. Vauxhall is not a "brand" per se because it is just British Opel - it doesn't have any unique models so no need to think of it as something separate. With 4 mainstream brands, you see the real problem here - they are designing and selling 4 of the same cars in each segment and they are competing with each other rather than with Ford, VW, Renault, Toyota, and Hyundai. If this reminds you of GM in North America before the bankruptcy, well, it is because that is what's happening. The mainstream market in Europe is shrinking... there is no room for 4 brands from one manufacturer. Ford has one, VW has two (VW and SEAT) with one being regionally focused in southern Europe, Hyundai has two, and Renault-Nissan has two.

 

Logically, you would downgrade one of the 4 mass market brands to a budget brand, and focus on the strongest remaining mass market brand and leave the other two as niche special/regional brands. The problem gets dicey because French chauvinism and Italian obstructionism inevitably get in the way. For example, there is no political outcome that is possible for Stellantis to downgrade Peugeot's role as the main brand for the group even though you can make a pretty good argument that Opel/Vauxhall is better suited as the stronger mainstream brand to maintain/build up because Germany and UK are still two largest market in Europe. So let's go with the fact that Peugeot is untouchable and try to figure out what to do with the rest.

 

Opel/Vauxhall had a clear identity before GM sold it to PSA - it was a mainstream brand competing with Ford, VW, Toyota, Hyundai, and ahem... Peugeot. Under PSA, the plan was to change Opel/Vauxhall into a "green" car brand focused on hybrid and EV. The problem is PSA didn't anticipate EU to bring out the ban hammer so soon on diesel which is a core Peugeot brand attribute... so now every brand in Europe is a "green" car brand focused on hybrid and EV. So Opel/Vauxhall will need a new identity. Stellantis is basically saying we are not going to try... in 10 years, it will be someone else's problem.

 

Citroen made sense when it was part of PSA: Peugeot for the masses and Citroen for people who think handlebar mustache is ok. But then PSA took all the fun out of Citroen when they separated DS sub-brand from Citrone and things make even less sense now with Citroen as part of Stellantis competing with not just Peugeot but also Opel and Fiat. For Citroen to carve out a niche, Stellantis needs to let it be weird Citroen again and that means reabsorbing DS and make that part of Citroen. 

 

Fiat is now known in Europe as a brand that sells Panda, 500 and vans. So logically, this one should be downgraded from mainstream market to the budget segment to focus on small and affordable cars. Like Renault's Dacia or VW's Skoda. But good luck convincing the Italians still in Stellantis that they should take a back seat to Peugeot and Opel.

 

Now onto the supposed "premium" brands... the only real one here is Maserati and Stellantis wants it to compete with Porsche. Fine idea as long as product execution is up to snuff. Alfa Romeo is a bit of a problem child. It was never a luxury brand until Sergio said it is and everyone just had to play along pretending the Alfa doesn't make its living selling cheap FWD hatchbacks in Europe and historically was a competitor to Fiat, not a premium brand above it. For most of its history, Alfa Romeo was kind of like Mazda today... mainstream brand but with a strong bend towards fun to drive cars. Until Fiat took over Alfa, the two brands were fierce rivals in Italy and Alfa was a mainstream brand that sold commercial vans and even buses that competed with IVECO. So the current reimaging of Alfa as an Audi and BMW competitor is coming up short but there is not a lot of alternatives. Alfa cannot go back to being a mainstream brand so it has to keep pretending it is a luxury brand. 

 

DS and Lancia are both complete mess and should be abandoned. DS was originally a sub-brand of Citroen focused on avant garde styling. It was never supposed to be a luxury brand but PSA was desperate for a luxury option to compete with VW Group so they separate it from Citrone and tried to tell everyone this is a luxury brand. Except everyone can see that it is just fancy Citroen. With Alfa Romeo and Maserati in the stable now, DS has no purpose but French chauvinism means it will be kept around. For no reason. 

 

Lancia was a real luxury car brand that slot in above Fiat for most of its history. But Sergio deliberately starved the brand because Alfa Romeo was his passion project. Lancia is so damaged (selling only 1 car in Italy and nowhere else) that it is really beyond salvage. Not many people under 50 even knows this brand exist and the few that knew, probably associate it with Delta and the mid 80s when Lancia was a force in the Group A and Group B rally racing competing with Audi. It's a good story but hard to contextualize in the current market place. Even Audi doesn't talk about its rally pedigree very much and AWD is core to Audi's brand.

 

 

Edited by bzcat

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10 minutes ago, bzcat said:

10 years is not a plan... it is Stellantis waving the white flag at European nationalism and deciding to do nothing. This is the same problem Sergio had with Fiat and he couldn't fix it so he merged the problem with Chrysler. And PSA has the same problem after it took over Opel and so they "fix" it by merging with FCA and kick the can down the road. But this is truly a case of 2+2=5 kind of problem... it gets bigger and more difficult to solve.

 

First, the problem is strictly an European one. Stellantis doesn't have an issue with overlapping brands in North America. It operates only two dealer networks here: Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram and Alfa Romeo/Maserati. And there is very little product overlap... e.g. there is no Ram sedan or Alfa Romeo pickup trucks, and there is no Chrysler SUV or Jeep minivan so Stellantis is not wasting money duplicating 4 identical cars. Fiat is the only redundant brand here and it is on the way out.


Now let's go to Europe and unpack the problem. Stellantis has 4 mainstream brands: Peugeot, Citroen, Opel/Vauxhall, and Fiat. Vauxhall is not a "brand" per se because it is just British Opel - it doesn't have any unique models so no need to think of it as something separate. With 4 mainstream brands, you see the real problem here - they are designing and selling 4 of the same cars in each segment and they are competing with each other rather than with Ford, VW, Renault, Toyota, and Hyundai. If this reminds you of GM in North America before the bankruptcy, well, it is because that is what's happening. The mainstream market in Europe is shrinking... there is no room for 4 brands from one manufacturer. Ford has one, VW has two (VW and SEAT) with one being regionally focused in southern Europe, Hyundai has two, and Renault-Nissan has two.

 

Logically, you would downgrade one of the 4 mass market brands to a budget brand, and focus on the strongest remaining mass market brand and leave the other two as niche special/regional brands. The problem gets dicey because French chauvinism and Italian obstructionism inevitably get in the way. For example, there is no political outcome that is possible for Stellantis to downgrade Peugeot's role as the main brand for the group even though you can make a pretty good argument that Opel/Vauxhall is better suited as the stronger mainstream brand to maintain/build up because Germany and UK are still two largest market in Europe. So let's go with the fact that Peugeot is untouchable and try to figure out what to do with the rest.

 

Opel/Vauxhall had a clear identity before GM sold it to PSA - it was a mainstream brand competing with Ford, VW, Toyota, Hyundai, and ahem... Peugeot. Under PSA, the plan was to change Opel/Vauxhall into a "green" car brand focused on hybrid and EV. The problem is PSA didn't anticipate EU to bring out the ban hammer so soon on diesel which is a core Peugeot brand attribute... so now every brand in Europe is a "green" car brand focused on hybrid and EV. So Opel/Vauxhall will need a new identity. Stellantis is basically saying we are not going to try... in 10 years, it will be someone else's problem.

 

Citroen made sense when it was part of PSA: Peugeot for the masses and Citroen for people who think handlebar mustache is ok. But then PSA took all the fun out of Citroen when they separated DS sub-brand from Citrone and things make even less sense now with Citroen as part of Stellantis competing with not just Peugeot but also Opel and Fiat. For Citroen to carve out a niche, Stellantis needs to let it be weird Citroen again and that means reabsorbing DS and make that part of Citroen. 

 

Fiat is now known in Europe as a brand that sells Panda, 500 and vans. So logically, this one should be downgraded from mainstream market to the budget segment to focus on small and affordable cars. Like Renault's Dacia or VW's Skoda. But good luck convincing the Italians still in Stellantis that they should take a back seat to Peugeot and Opel.

 

Now onto the supposed "premium" brands... the only real one here is Maserati and Stellantis wants it to compete with Porsche. Fine idea as long as product execution is up to snuff. Alfa Romeo is a bit of a problem child. It was never a luxury brand until Sergio said it is and everyone just had to play along pretending the Alfa doesn't make its living selling cheap FWD hatchbacks in Europe and historically was a competitor to Fiat, not a premium brand above it. Until Fiat took over Alfa, the two brands were fierce rivals in Italy and Alfa was a mainstream brand that sold commercial vans and even buses that competed with IVECO. So the current reimaging of Alfa as an Audi and BMW competitor is coming up short but there is not a lot of alternatives. Alfa cannot go back to being a mainstream brand so it has to keep pretending it is a luxury brand. 

 

DS and Lancia are both complete mess and should be abandoned. DS was originally a sub-brand of Citroen focused on avant garde styling. It was never supposed to be a luxury brand but PSA was desperate for a luxury option to compete with VW Group so they separate it from Citrone and tried to tell everyone this is a luxury brand. Except everyone can see that it is just fancy Citroen. With Alfa Romeo and Maserati in the stable now, DS has no purpose but French chauvinism means it will be kept around. For no reason. 

 

Lancia was a real luxury car brand that slot in above Fiat for most of its history. But Sergio deliberately starved the brand because Alfa Romeo was his passion project. Lancia is so damaged (selling only 1 car in Italy and nowhere else) that it is really beyond salvage. Not many people under 50 even knows this brand exist and the few that knew, probably associate it with Delta and the mid 80s when Lancia was a force in the Group A and Group B rally racing competing with Audi. It's a good story but hard to contextualize in the current market place. Even Audi doesn't talk about its rally pedigree very much and AWD is core to Audi's brand.

 

 

You had a lot to say. Lol. You had to be one of those dudes that struggled to keep your papers to the max page count. Haha. Sry

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Yes, it's a different problem in North America compared to Europe.   In North America it's not product duplication it's just having too many brands.   Pick Dodge or Chrysler and consolidate Dodge/Chrysler/RAM to that brand with different models.

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On 5/19/2021 at 12:05 PM, akirby said:

Yes, it's a different problem in North America compared to Europe.   In North America it's not product duplication it's just having too many brands.   Pick Dodge or Chrysler and consolidate Dodge/Chrysler/RAM to that brand with different models.


You would think they would just have Dodge at the end of the day. Chrysler is not a premium brand and only has one vehicle, a minivan with a newish name. Dodge at least has a following with “sporty/fast” vehicles with the Challenger and Charger. Even with the long term towards EV’s, you will have people that prefer sporty looking and driving cars. 
 

Rebadge the van under Dodge and bring Ram back to dodge, even as a “sub brand”. 

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Posted (edited)

Agree, Chrysler hasn't been a "premium brand" since the K-car days. I bet name will be gone by 2028.

 

Opel/Vauxhall are now just badges on French cars, nothing GM anymore. Don't expect "the return of Opel to US", ever.

 

And 'FCA' is defunct. Funny how Chrysler/Mopar/Dodge fanbois love using the term, but then complain about Fiat. 

Edited by 630land

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