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akirby

Ford warns dealers about F150 Lightning orders

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On 1/12/2022 at 10:14 AM, FordBuyer said:

 

Mullinax has about 20 Broncos and about all are used as demos to be sold later after some light miles. And I would guess be sold for much higher price than sticker. Expect them to do the same with Lightning. Seems to be the model for mega dealers. Looks like Mullinax does this with the Mach E also. 

 

Sounds like Ford Courtesy Transportation Program vehicles that have to be in service for a specific time period and mileage before they can be sold. Dealers are subject to chargebacks and other fines for violating terms of the program. 

Edited by ice-capades
typo

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16 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Which is weird since Ferrari owners/buyers are traditionally sticklers for NOT putting miles on their cars. 

the Dealer would register vehicles and pay taxes etc on THEIR aquisation cost and then bump pricing up...the cars were literally never driven..

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16 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

Sounds like Ford Courtesy Transportation Program vehicles that have to be in service for a specific time period and mileage before they can be sold. Dealers subject to chargebacks and other fines for violating terms of the program. 

Wish I could believe that...we were told with our Mach E mannequins they had to be in-service for 6 months and then 2 months in we were informed they could be sold and subsequently were....I swear...ever since Fauchi became a Ford Employee, the rules change daily.....hes also in charge of release dates and Vin visibility ( too soon?....lol )

Edited by Deanh

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I dont  understand where the word "ethical" went. Despite the world seemingly collapsing, dealerships are still charging over MSRP. I just find it odd how if you got MSRP you got a "deal"

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3 hours ago, DillyDally said:

I dont  understand where the word "ethical" went. Despite the world seemingly collapsing, dealerships are still charging over MSRP. I just find it odd how if you got MSRP you got a "deal"


Is it unethical to take a big discount or big rebates when supply is far greater than demand?    My F150 was over $10K below MSRP.  Was that unethical?  Can’t have it both ways.

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57 minutes ago, akirby said:


Is it unethical to take a big discount or big rebates when supply is far greater than demand?    My F150 was over $10K below MSRP.  Was that unethical?  Can’t have it both ways.

Guess ethical wasnt the right word and you make a fair point. Just seems that one is helping people the other is scalping people, but you do you. If MSRP is the price, you'd think thats the adjusted price for features, inflation, etc. Seems as if dealers are deciding what the prices should be for Ford which is strange. Just my opinion though

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19 minutes ago, DillyDally said:

Guess ethical wasnt the right word and you make a fair point. Just seems that one is helping people the other is scalping people, but you do you. If MSRP is the price, you'd think thats the adjusted price for features, inflation, etc. Seems as if dealers are deciding what the prices should be for Ford which is strange. Just my opinion though


You can’t scalp or gouge somebody when the purchase is 100% voluntary.  It’s not like gasoline or food.

 

Let’s say you’re a dealer who normally sells 100 cars a month and you only get 10.  And there are 30 people at your door offering you $10k over MSRP to buy them. You’re telling me you’d turn that down?  Now changing the price at the last minute is totally different.

 

Also dealers have always decided what prices are because dealers have almost never sold vehicles at MSRP and I bet you’ve never paid MSRP. 
Tesla raised their MSRP on some vehicles by $9K.  Ford could easily raise MSRP by $5K on Mavericks and people would still buy them.  So what’s the difference?

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5 hours ago, akirby said:


You can’t scalp or gouge somebody when the purchase is 100% voluntary.  It’s not like gasoline or food.

 

Let’s say you’re a dealer who normally sells 100 cars a month and you only get 10.  And there are 30 people at your door offering you $10k over MSRP to buy them. You’re telling me you’d turn that down?  Now changing the price at the last minute is totally different.

 

Also dealers have always decided what prices are because dealers have almost never sold vehicles at MSRP and I bet you’ve never paid MSRP. 
Tesla raised their MSRP on some vehicles by $9K.  Ford could easily raise MSRP by $5K on Mavericks and people would still buy them.  So what’s the difference?

Those cash incentives do not come out of the dealer’s pockets though, that all comes from Ford and is built into the price. For vehicles that are extremely hard to shift, Ford gives the dealer a one time amount  to move the vehicle.

 

While I agree that dealers should be permitted to profit with ADMs, it’s the amount that concerns me, you would hope that most aren’t charging $10k-$20k over MSRP and those that are buying vehicles with big ADMs should know that their financing could be extremely underwater at hand in time….

 

I looks like demand may be easing as the economy starts nosing over, so maybe ADMs are gone in a month or so or as we expect only on really desirable vehicles for those that must have right now.

Edited by jpd80

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34 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Those cash incentives do not come out of the dealer’s pockets though, that all comes from Ford and is built into the price. .


But it’s still buying well below MSRP.  And the dealer was also discounting off MSRP and selling near invoice in most cases.

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20 minutes ago, akirby said:


But it’s still buying well below MSRP.  And the dealer was also discounting off MSRP and selling near invoice in most cases.

Can’t argue with that.

 

I can tell you that in ROW markets, the word discount hasn’t existed in Ford vocabulary for quite a while.

Edited by jpd80

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12 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Those cash incentives do not come out of the dealer’s pockets though, that all comes from Ford and is built into the price. For vehicles that are extremely hard to shift, Ford gives the dealer a one time amount  to move the vehicle.

 

While I agree that dealers should be permitted to profit with ADMs, it’s the amount that concerns me, you would hope that most aren’t charging $10k-$20k over MSRP and those that are buying vehicles with big ADMs should know that their financing could be extremely underwater at hand in time….

 

I looks like demand may be easing as the economy starts nosing over, so maybe ADMs are gone in a month or so or as we expect only on really desirable vehicles for those that must have right now.

All I'm saying if GM CEO is saying this about the corvette, what makes Ford think theyre above ethical selling practices:

"Unortunately, it has come to our attention that in connection with some of these announcements and launches, a small number of Dealers have engaged in practices that do not support a positive sales experience for our customers.  This puts our collective interests at risk and generates negative press that reflect poorly on GM’s brands and your dealerships.  Specifically, it has come to our attention that some dealerships have attempted to demand money above and beyond the reservation amounts set in GM’s program rules and/or have requested customers to pay sums far in excess of MSRP in order to purchase or lease a vehicle.

First, I want to remind you that GM dealers are obligated to ethically and lawfully sell GM Products, as stated in Article 5 of the Dealer Sales and Service Agreement:

“Dealer agrees to effectively, ethically and lawfully sell and promote the purchase, lease and use of Products by consumers…”

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1 hour ago, DillyDally said:

All I'm saying if GM CEO is saying this about the corvette, what makes Ford think theyre above ethical selling practices:

"Unortunately, it has come to our attention that in connection with some of these announcements and launches, a small number of Dealers have engaged in practices that do not support a positive sales experience for our customers.  This puts our collective interests at risk and generates negative press that reflect poorly on GM’s brands and your dealerships.  Specifically, it has come to our attention that some dealerships have attempted to demand money above and beyond the reservation amounts set in GM’s program rules and/or have requested customers to pay sums far in excess of MSRP in order to purchase or lease a vehicle.

First, I want to remind you that GM dealers are obligated to ethically and lawfully sell GM Products, as stated in Article 5 of the Dealer Sales and Service Agreement:

“Dealer agrees to effectively, ethically and lawfully sell and promote the purchase, lease and use of Products by consumers…”


While the GM letter does mention selling vehicles in excess of MSRP it doesn’t actually prohibit it and dealers have been selling corvettes above MSRP for years.  What they are actually prohibiting is the same as Ford - charging additional reservation fees or increasing the price after the order is placed.  The ADM warning is a bluff.

 

If the customer agrees to pay $20k over MSRP up front and that’s what they are charged then GM has no say and neither does Ford.  
 

You may not like it but it’s not illegal, unethical or against the franchise agreement.

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