jpd80 Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, bzcat said: No reason to think Detroit won't continue building the current Lightning in addition to TE1 in Tennessee. Demand for EV is sky high... Ford will be wise to keep EV production going at sites already setup for EV. Maybe Ford will convert the current Lightning production to only the Pro version aimed at fleets - maybe rename it something else like F-100 and F-200... and move retail customers to the TE1 version F-150. Just one of the possibilities. The impression that Ford was giving was that once TE1 production was up and running, the current Lightning would stop, the current Lightning is a transitory electric vehicle until a more efficient production process and battery supply was available. That’s also why they don’t want to take anymore reservations beyond a defined number. Quote Once BOC is at full production with TE1, Ford will be able to adjust the mix of the F-150 at the Detroit and Kansas City plants. If EV demand starts to pull away from ICE, Ford can convert Detroit to full EV production for example. This is why Farley is talking about a "new" EV truck. He is telegraphing Ford's intention to keep the current Lightning in production beyond the launch of TE1 F-150 EV. Annual production of F150 at Dearborn and Kansas City is around 600k, Tennessee has a capacity of at least 300K, so if in the coming years, half of F150 buyers switch to BEV, then it’s clear what will happento production and shifts at those two ICE plants.. Edited April 30, 2022 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarneyFord Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Yeah, hard pass. Too close to the city Yeah Memphis is not my favorite. Getting to healthcare is the other concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: it’s clear what will happento production and shifts at those two ICE plants.. Boy am I glad I'm getting into trades 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Boy am I glad I'm getting into trades You know what they say though, if you don’t like a current Ford plan, just wait six months… Remembering back, akirby made a great point about the unknown longer term sales depth of EVs, time will tell. When Ford changes, it goes all in on things a what seems a frenetic pace, maybe missing the importance and value of hybrids and PHEVs for increased production and sales…. Edited May 1, 2022 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pffan1990 Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 2 hours ago, jpd80 said: Annual production of F150 at Dearborn and Kansas City is around 600k, Tennessee has a capacity of at least 300K, so if in the coming years, half of F150 buyers switch to BEV, then it’s clear what will happento production and shifts at those two ICE plants.. Do you know the approximate max capacity of BOC Tennessee? I know you said 'at least' 300K for BOC but I would think it has capability to produce around equal to combined Dearborn and Kansas City (600K) to meet demands once more buyers switch to BEVs. Also, there's supposed to be next generation ICE F-150 coming soon; I think around 2026 or so? So the Dearborn and Kansas City plants will definitely be busy pumping those ICE F-150s out for quite some time. The Kansas City plant will continue to produce ICE Transit and the current E-Transit too. Speaking of which, would the TE1 E-Transit be built at Kansas City after re-tooling it or built elsewhere while current E-Transits are built during the transition? There's also Ranger EV that will be coming at some point too in addition to other EVs. At least right now, Ford has officially begun production of the F-150 Lightning, marking history for the company. Exciting times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 1, 2022 Author Share Posted May 1, 2022 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: When Ford changes, it goes all in on things a what seems a frenetic pace, maybe missing the importance and value of hybrids and PHEVs for increased production and sales…. But they have that market already covered with current plants.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 39 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: But they have that market already covered with current plants.... I can almost guarantee that they still won’t have enough battery supply… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplorerDude Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 There is so much developing and changing by the day that it’s hard to say what is concrete but BOC will be the home of TE1 and it’s multiple derivatives. Let’s just say KTP will be able to focus on Super Duties…. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, ExplorerDude said: There is so much developing and changing by the day that it’s hard to say what is concrete but BOC will be the home of TE1 and it’s multiple derivatives. Let’s just say KTP will be able to focus on Super Duties…. So thinking that, 1. TE1 based Expedition/Navigator is logical incremental production at BOC 2. ICE Expedition/Navigator production could move to one or both of the F150 plants.. 3. Super Duty & E Series production at Avon Lake could replace Expedition/Navigator at KTP Edited May 1, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 21 hours ago, 1970TorinoGT said: I was listening to the "InsideEVs" podcast on Friday and one of the guests was at the Lightning launch. She said that Farley was talking individually with folks during the tour and mentioned that the new pickup would (paraphrasing) "be about $7k cheaper *or* have approximately 100mi more range." Additionally, it will be "controversial", have "active and deployable aero" with "flaps like you would see on a semi truck" per Farley. Skip to 34 min: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bUMzJHjwTY So it's a RANGE-R? hehe I'll be here all week... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 14 hours ago, pffan1990 said: I know you said 'at least' 300K for BOC but I would think it has capability to produce around equal to combined Dearborn and Kansas City (600K) to meet demands once more buyers switch to BEVs. They literally built a new plant for Gen 1 Lightning. No way they don't build Gen 2 and beyond there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 I’m guessing it will be much lighter and smaller to get the better range. F-100? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplorerDude Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 8 hours ago, jpd80 said: So thinking that, 1. TE1 based Expedition/Navigator is logical incremental production at BOC 2. ICE Expedition/Navigator production could move to one or both of the F150 plants.. 3. Super Duty & E Series production at Avon Lake could replace Expedition/Navigator at KTP jpd80 good call….The nameplates in question are all right here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pffan1990 Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 6 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: They literally built a new plant for Gen 1 Lightning. No way they don't build Gen 2 and beyond there. Yes, I figured this as well. It's been said that the TE1 Lightning would be a departure of the ICE F-150. So I didn't know whether the current Lightning plant at Rogue Detroit would be re-tooled for TE1 since it would be different than ICE F-150 (next generation) of the time. The current placeholding Lightning shares cab and bed from the ICE F-150, hence the newly-built addition to the Rogue Plant. Also, ExplorerDude's comments answered my questions plus the questions I hadn't asked here yet so I think I get the picture now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: They literally built a new plant for Gen 1 Lightning. No way they don't build Gen 2 and beyond there. The new electric plant at Dearborn was part of Hackett’s plan to build BEVs at ICE plants and do a slow evolution, Farley has now scrapped that and gone with BOC for higher production from get go. Next Gen Lightning is on TE1 which doesn’t use the ICE F150 chassis, that throws up questions about interrupting ICE production, that’s why I’m wondering if HEV1 gets repurposed for more HEV & PHEV trucks? And yeah, this is a classic example of Ford spending money on infrastructure ($700M) to suit one plan and then spending ten or twenty times as much ($30B?) to change course and do something else…. Edited May 2, 2022 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, ExplorerDude said: jpd80 good call….The nameplates in question are all right here. The moves I mentioned are just speculation but open up other possibilities, I’m hoping that others will expand with their own thoughts.. Going further, Farley has stated that Ford Blue needs to make $3 billion in savings, so consolidation is a big part of that striving for greater efficiency. Freeing up Ohio AP for BEV Explorer/Aviator might be a good olive branch to the UAW…..where does F650/750 go, is OHAP big enough complex to have two separate plants, one for the MD trucks and the other for BEVs? I also hadn’t considered the full possibility of Expedition /Aviator at Dearborn and BEV versions built there to replace the Lightning when it moves to Tennessee on TE1. Edited May 2, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 18 minutes ago, jpd80 said: where does F650/750 go, is OHAP big enough complex to have two separate plants, one for MDS, the other for BEVs? I don't know how it was supposed to work but based on the 2019 contract that seemed to be the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I don't know how it was supposed to work but based on the 2019 contract that seemed to be the plan. Maybe the first part of gaining trust with future UAW negotiations is to go back and honour what’s been already agreed. Also if some production bleeds from Dearborn, maybe adding Expedition/Navigator there boosts production and uses the BEV plant for SUVs? I now realise that things might not be as grim for workers as I once thought, if Ford can work out how to make the new BOC the fourth F Series plant - BEV Explorer/Navigator at OHAP - OHAP Super Duty/ E Series production to KTP about 9,000/mth - Expedition/Navigator from KTP to Dearborn about 9,000/mth Edited May 2, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: Maybe the first part of gaining trust with future UAW negotiations is to go back and honour what’s been already agreed. Also if some production bleeds from Dearborn, maybe adding Expedition/Navigator there boosts production and uses the BEV plant for SUVs? I now realise that things might not be as grim for workers as I once thought, if Ford can work out how to make the new BOC the fourth F Series plant - BEV Explorer/Navigator at OHAP - OHAP Super Duty/ E Series production to KTP about 9,000/mth - Expedition/Navigator from KTP to Dearborn about 9,000/mth At that point probably just kill E-series all together rather than invest in moving the tooling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 8 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: At that point probably just kill E-series all together rather than invest in moving the tooling. ...and finally banish the Twin-I-Beam suspension to the history books?? Heretic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 15 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: At that point probably just kill E-series all together rather than invest in moving the tooling. yeah move it to some sort of new architecture at that point . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 On 4/30/2022 at 11:39 AM, 1970TorinoGT said: I was listening to the "InsideEVs" podcast on Friday and one of the guests was at the Lightning launch. She said that Farley was talking individually with folks during the tour and mentioned that the new pickup would (paraphrasing) "be about $7k cheaper *or* have approximately 100mi more range." Additionally, it will be "controversial", have "active and deployable aero" with "flaps like you would see on a semi truck" per Farley. Skip to 34 min: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bUMzJHjwTY It seems like Ford is gradually easing truck buyers into Evs by making the first ev lightning more conservative, and then making the next gen lightning more radical looking to appeal to buyers who want a more eye-catching design. Appeal to both audiences, excellent idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 23 hours ago, DeluxeStang said: On 4/30/2022 at 1:39 PM, 1970TorinoGT said: I was listening to the "InsideEVs" podcast on Friday and one of the guests was at the Lightning launch. She said that Farley was talking individually with folks during the tour and mentioned that the new pickup would (paraphrasing) "be about $7k cheaper *or* have approximately 100mi more range." Additionally, it will be "controversial", have "active and deployable aero" with "flaps like you would see on a semi truck" per Farley. Skip to 34 min: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bUMzJHjwTY It seems like Ford is gradually easing truck buyers into Evs by making the first ev lightning more conservative, and then making the next gen lightning more radical looking to appeal to buyers who want a more eye-catching design. Appeal to both audiences, excellent idea. And if they wanted to further that, they could always do a “classic” model - I.e. carry on with the current more traditional Lightning while also having the more modern/unique one 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: And if they wanted to further that, they could always do a “classic” model - I.e. carry on with the current more traditional Lightning while also having the more modern/unique one Commercial vs Retail 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 On 5/2/2022 at 4:33 AM, twintornados said: ...and finally banish the Twin-I-Beam suspension to the history books?? Heretic. Doesn't the 2WD F-250 and F-350 still have Twin-I-Beam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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