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silvrsvt

2023 Lincoln Corsair To Drop Optional 2.3L I-4 EcoBoost Engine

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On 8/14/2022 at 8:20 PM, akirby said:


That’s strange - had the 2.0 in my fusion, daughters escape and the new Nautilus and all seemed to idle very smooth.

Ditto for mine, though I have noticed a bit of a vibration at idle the last few days. I suspect the dreaded flex plate crack may be starting to rear its ugly head.  

Edited by fuzzymoomoo
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14 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

To go back to the topic here, the Corsair was a great vehicle when it was launched a few years ago and has been gaining sales, but deleting the options that made it stand out and new competition in the market will customers continue to buy it?


But aside from the 2.3L they aren’t decontenting Corsair, they’re actually adding sync 4, Lincoln glide and a few other things and as far as I can tell they haven’t done the same decontenting with Corsair that they’ve done with other Fords.

 

Don’t the competitors top out at 2.0L?

 

Even though it’s a dead man walking the only decontenting I see in my 22 Nautilus is the paddle shifters.  

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26 minutes ago, akirby said:


But aside from the 2.3L they aren’t decontenting Corsair, they’re actually adding sync 4, Lincoln glide and a few other things and as far as I can tell they haven’t done the same decontenting with Corsair that they’ve done with other Fords.

 

Don’t the competitors top out at 2.0L?

 

Even though it’s a dead man walking the only decontenting I see in my 22 Nautilus is the paddle shifters.  

 

I doubt anyone missed the paddle shifters. Other than in performance related models, I doubt most drivers ever bothered to use the paddle shifters in the vehicles equipped with them. 

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1 hour ago, ice-capades said:

 

I doubt anyone missed the paddle shifters. Other than in performance related models, I doubt most drivers ever bothered to use the paddle shifters in the vehicles equipped with them. 


I only miss them occasionally mainly on mountain roads.  They’re still available with the 2.7L.

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15 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

I went from a loaded SHO to a lower end "loaded" Bronco and to be honest I don't miss some of the options that where on the SHO vs Bronco. Power seats are nice, but I don't mess with the settings that much, if ever. 

 

Then I see the stupidity of what happened with the Escape from 2013 to 2019 with trims and then discontenting that happened-which seems to be an internal screw up. Its pretty bad when a 2017 SE has more options on it then the 2013 Ti model did and costs 5K less vs that same model. It seems like they can't decide on what is going to be good, better and best with equipment packages and when things like Homelink or something stupid, but important for some people because its useful, get removed from lower trim models, the cries of discontenting get thrown around when maybe it shouldn't have been there to start with? 


If the equipment becomes optional I don't really have a problem with it because that is packaging, but when they just delete things that are actually useful that people want - and are offered on competitors vehicles is stupid and reeks of cost cutting. Having home link standard on the XL Expedition didn't make sense.

Ford's MAJOR problem in packaging is that there is NO consistency in what features are on each model line, product teams don't seem to even talk to each other. They over survey and have so many options that it is just confusing for a customer, and some options could even be moved to the dealer for install later

 

Getting a SEL on a Edge/Escape/Fusion/Focus/Taurus or an XLT on a Maverick/Ranger/F-150/Super-duty all end up with vastly different equipment at that trim level.  I have yet to meet a person at Ford that can explain to me what the difference is between Co-pilot 1.0, 1.5, 1.5 Assist, 1.5 Assist+, 2.0, 2.0 Assist and 2.0 Active. I've studied the order guides and there is no consistency. The closest I can get is something to do with Rain-sensing wipers, intelligent adaptive cruise short of Active; Active means it has Blue Cruise


Lincolns have escaped some of the de-contenting but not all, base power passenger seats also have lost lumbar and/or seat-tilt power adjustments, bin lights removed, engine covers, hood insulation, dual note horns. Looks like the Nautilus kept the keypad for 2023, while Edge lost it.

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The loss of engine cover is weird, I saw the MW review of the latest Navigator and they showed the engine bay with no cover.  I wasn't sure if they just removed the cover or not but I guess this confirms they are not putting in there anymore.  I cant imagine it costs that much to put a piece of plastic over the engine to keep it looking neater.

 

One thing with Ford over the years are their engine bays are pretty ugly.  I prefer having the cover over it to hide that spaghetti mess of wires and such. 

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Why is Ford treating its North American customers like step children. The Chinese Lincoln Aviator has a Upgraded interior and Upgrade electronics compared to the state side Aviator. While here in the states they only changed the colors and take the soft close doors from the reserve model. What really pissed me off was when Ford took the sensors out of the rear door handles on the ranger. My 2019 Ranger as long as I had my key fob in my pocket, all I had to do to open a door was touch the inside of the door handle and that door would unlock. My 2022 does not do that, if I grab the back door handles it does nothing. Who ever at Ford thought that was a good ideal needs to be fired. That pisses me off every time I forget that the 2022 no longer has the sensors in the rear door handles. Also the 12volt outlet covers on the dash now look like they came out of a JC Whitney catalog with fonts that do not even match the rest of the interior trim. The 2019 had much nicer covers with chrome trim that match the rest of the interior better . Even the Aviator they took off the self closing doors on the reserve models and now you have to buy a Black label to get that feature.  The Corsair is not the top seller in its class so to take away options that put it above the others is not good at all.   Ford keeps this up they will lose a 40+ year customer.  For the first time I'm look at different brands. When you buy a newer vehicle to replace your older one with the same trim level you should not lose features you should gain. Why else do you buy new if not too upgrade. I guess with Ford now the price goes up and they take away features.  https://fordauthority.com/2022/05/2022-lincoln-aviator-refreshed-for-china-with-new-tech-better-seats/

Edited by Shelby32

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6 hours ago, Shelby32 said:

if I grab the back door handles it does nothing. Who ever at Ford thought that was a good ideal needs to be fired.

 

On 9/9/2022 at 10:30 PM, Andrew L said:

I saw the MW review of the latest Navigator and they showed the engine bay with no cover. 

 

Believe me, I was in one of the several hundred meetings to get to this point and the framing was truly cringeworthy -- 'finding ways to be cost-competitive while maintaining or improving customer experience', etc. If things were that easy and unnoticeable, then those are already done, and honestly the amount of time and effort to debate and design a new part that does less is probably equal value to just keeping the feature. You will see other deletions like global open & close feature where engineers spent the time to notice that people will use the global open, but not too much global close, so we will delete the global close. A similar conclusion was made for rear door handle that the usage isn't as much as the front, so it's out.

 

On 9/6/2022 at 2:49 PM, jasonj80 said:

Ford's MAJOR problem in packaging is that there is NO consistency in what features are on each model line, product teams don't seem to even talk to each other.

 

Each vehicle/program team is basically a separate company, almost to the point there is no point of having a common platform because each vehicle team will excessively customize the design for their needs and make it unusable for other programs.

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40 minutes ago, dlghtjr90 said:

 

Each vehicle/program team is basically a separate company, almost to the point there is no point of having a common platform because each vehicle team will excessively customize the design for their needs and make it unusable for other programs.


That’s been one of my biggest pet peeves with Ford the last 20 years.  The controls in my F150 are completely different than the other vehicles.  If it was different for a good reason that would be fine but you know it’s just because it was different teams.

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On 9/6/2022 at 2:49 PM, jasonj80 said:

I have yet to meet a person at Ford that can explain to me what the difference is between Co-pilot 1.0, 1.5, 1.5 Assist, 1.5 Assist+, 2.0, 2.0 Assist and 2.0 Active.

 

It never helped that the Co-pilot wasn't coined until 2018 when the features like LKAS, BLIS, AEB, etc. were already there for years. There were just as vague names like 'Luxury Driver Assist Package' and 'SE Technology Package' and I remember folks were saying introducing the Co-Pilot terminology will finally clean things up.. yeah.

The engineers who are involved in ADAS are mostly working on the future tech and couldn't care less about the naming/bundling of the existing features introduced years ago, so it's actually best to find someone in the marketing side. There is a completely different internal naming & bundling sequence of the future ADAS package which a number of engineers would know, but by the time it gets translated to Co-Pilot whatever for the customer, the translation is critically lost.

 

On 9/6/2022 at 2:49 PM, jasonj80 said:

Lincolns have escaped some of the de-contenting but not all, base power passenger seats also have lost lumbar and/or seat-tilt power adjustments, bin lights removed, engine covers, hood insulation, dual note horns. Looks like the Nautilus kept the keypad for 2023, while Edge lost it.

 

At this point I would recommend for those who look for the better value, go for the Lincolns, especially for Escape vs. Corsair. The amount of de-content is so much for the Escape to the point that it is not worth the $10k~$20k save when the car does feels no better than a cardboard box and a tin can, and personally, awful audio system compared to the yesteryears.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, akirby said:

If it was different for a good reason that would be fine but you know it’s just because it was different teams.

 

It requires communication, collaboration, and likely spending a bit more than you would like which are all.. uh, not easy.

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21 minutes ago, dlghtjr90 said:

 

It requires communication, collaboration, and likely spending a bit more than you would like which are all.. uh, not easy.


I spent 36 years in the corporate world (still there).  Believe me, I understand.

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25 minutes ago, dlghtjr90 said:

 

It requires communication, collaboration, and likely spending a bit more than you would like which are all.. uh, not easy.


All of which are things Ford is historically awful at, to the point when my opinion is asked I decline because I know they’re just going to do whatever they want anyway 

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On 9/5/2022 at 7:51 PM, jasonj80 said:

It sums up Ford's good enough attitude for the US market - we have sales and if we lose a thousand customers that's okay its more profitable this way. The problem is a thousand becomes ten thousand which becomes a hundred thousand which becomes a million. Ford still thinks GM is there only competition in the market and looks to benchmark them exclusively for almost every market where they might slightly benchmark Ram for Pickups and Wrangler with the Bronco. 

If I was in the market today with the equipment deletions and price increases I wouldn't have replaced my F-150 with another one. Ford is very shortsighted in their decision process. 

To go back to the topic here, the Corsair was a great vehicle when it was launched a few years ago and has been gaining sales, but deleting the options that made it stand out and new competition in the market will customers continue to buy it? Lincoln will be waiting for the electric version in a few years it will be great but by then Audi/Mercedes/Genesis and Cadillac will be out with great product. The PIH is behind Lexus and Volvo in Range and price, so unless a significant upgrade happens in powertrain it will be behind. What is Lincoln going to offer that they don't already have?


We had a 2022 Edge SEL rental a couple months ago, and we also own a 2017 Edge Titanium so it was a good chance to compare the two back-to-back.  Two things drove me nuts about the 2022: removal of the touch sensitive door handles at the rear doors (not sure if this was an SEL thing, or if Ford cost cutting did this on all models) and putting all HVAC controls on the navigation screen.  I thought I previously heard that Ford got rid of the rear touch sensitive door handles for all Edges, which is something we use literally every day getting our child into the car seat.  It's a small thing, but it's something that parents will notice when your hands are full with a child and diaper bag...and a repeat Edge buyer is likely going to notice its absence as well.

 

As for the HVAC controls--not sure if that was cost cutting or just trying to copy Tesla with putting everything on the vertical display, but not having physical HVAC buttons was a huge annoyance in general.  When you're driving in an unfamiliar area and fumbling around trying to figure out how to change the fan speed or change vent modes during rush hour traffic, you really get a feel for how bad of an idea losing physical buttons is.  Compounding on that, I really didn't like the UI for Sync 4 in the '22 Edge vs. the Sync 3 UI in our Edge.  We didn't have a lot of time to spend with it, but it seemed far less intuitive.

 

In a lot of ways, the 2022 felt like a step backwards.  Not sure it would be on our list when we eventually replace our 2017.

Edited by mustang84isu

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Sync 4 in our Nautilus is light years better than sync 3 in our old MKX, but we also have physical hvac controls.  Although all you really need to use is the temp control 95% of the time.

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9 hours ago, mustang84isu said:


We had a 2022 Edge SEL rental a couple months ago, and we also own a 2017 Edge Titanium so it was a good chance to compare the two back-to-back.  Two things drove me nuts about the 2022: removal of the touch sensitive door handles at the rear doors (not sure if this was an SEL thing, or if Ford cost cutting did this on all models) and putting all HVAC controls on the navigation screen.  I thought I previously heard that Ford got rid of the rear touch sensitive door handles for all Edges, which is something we use literally every day getting our child into the car seat.  It's a small thing, but it's something that parents will notice when your hands are full with a child and diaper bag...and a repeat Edge buyer is likely going to notice its absence as well.

 

As for the HVAC controls--not sure if that was cost cutting or just trying to copy Tesla with putting everything on the vertical display, but not having physical HVAC buttons was a huge annoyance in general.  When you're driving in an unfamiliar area and fumbling around trying to figure out how to change the fan speed or change vent modes during rush hour traffic, you really get a feel for how bad of an idea losing physical buttons is.  Compounding on that, I really didn't like the UI for Sync 4 in the '22 Edge vs. the Sync 3 UI in our Edge.  We didn't have a lot of time to spend with it, but it seemed far less intuitive.

 

In a lot of ways, the 2022 felt like a step backwards.  Not sure it would be on our list when we eventually replace our 2017.


I can echo your sentiment. We had a 2022 Edge for a few weeks while the Flex was having a wheel repaired and I completely agree with pretty much everything you said. The 1 positive is at least the center screen is finally dim enough at night to not be a distraction to me. 

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Traded my Flex Limited longer than a decade ago - and I still miss it. Shame on Ford for neglecting it into extinction.

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Lincoln just approved the reacquisition of our 2021 Corsair 2.3 Reserve whose electronics gremlins have not been successfully exorcised after some four months in dealer hands.

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On 9/23/2022 at 10:51 PM, mustang84isu said:

We had a 2022 Edge SEL rental a couple months ago, and we also own a 2017 Edge Titanium so it was a good chance to compare the two back-to-back.  Two things drove me nuts about the 2022: removal of the touch sensitive door handles at the rear doors (not sure if this was an SEL thing, or if Ford cost cutting did this on all models) and putting all HVAC controls on the navigation screen.  I thought I previously heard that Ford got rid of the rear touch sensitive door handles for all Edges, which is something we use literally every day getting our child into the car seat.  It's a small thing, but it's something that parents will notice when your hands are full with a child and diaper bag...and a repeat Edge buyer is likely going to notice its absence as well.

As for the HVAC controls--not sure if that was cost cutting or just trying to copy Tesla with putting everything on the vertical display, but not having physical HVAC buttons was a huge annoyance in general.  When you're driving in an unfamiliar area and fumbling around trying to figure out how to change the fan speed or change vent modes during rush hour traffic, you really get a feel for how bad of an idea losing physical buttons is.  Compounding on that, I really didn't like the UI for Sync 4 in the '22 Edge vs. the Sync 3 UI in our Edge.  We didn't have a lot of time to spend with it, but it seemed far less intuitive.

 

In a lot of ways, the 2022 felt like a step backwards.  Not sure it would be on our list when we eventually replace our 2017.


Funny you mention the rear doors, that is the number one thing that will send me over to GM or Toyota Pickups who both offer it on the back doors of their higher end pickups. It infuriates me with my backpack,  tools and full hands that I have to fumble for the fob which deletes the purpose of the keyless entry. 

My coworker doesn't have kinda words for her 2022 Edge (She has had a 2013, 2016, 2019, and now 2022) calls it her crap car. 

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9 hours ago, jasonj80 said:


Funny you mention the rear doors, that is the number one thing that will send me over to GM or Toyota Pickups who both offer it on the back doors of their higher end pickups. It infuriates me with my backpack,  tools and full hands that I have to fumble for the fob which deletes the purpose of the keyless entry.

 

The fob WAS the original keyless entry in that you did not need to use the key to unlock the car, just fumble for the fob....😂

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10 hours ago, jasonj80 said:


Funny you mention the rear doors, that is the number one thing that will send me over to GM or Toyota Pickups who both offer it on the back doors of their higher end pickups. It infuriates me with my backpack,  tools and full hands that I have to fumble for the fob which deletes the purpose of the keyless entry. 

My coworker doesn't have kinda words for her 2022 Edge (She has had a 2013, 2016, 2019, and now 2022) calls it her crap car. 

 

Why fumble for the fob when you can just touch the front door the same you would the back?  I know, it's one extra step, but sheesh, it's not near enough to make me switch brands and buy an inferior vehicle.

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4 hours ago, fordmantpw said:

 

Why fumble for the fob when you can just touch the front door the same you would the back?  I know, it's one extra step, but sheesh, it's not near enough to make me switch brands and buy an inferior vehicle.

 

Agreed.  This is the workaround I use - slide my hand in the front door handle to unlock, then immediately proceed to open the rear door.  An annoying extra step?  Perhaps, but it's much better than digging around in my pocket.  I'll also do the same before opening the lift gate to let passengers inside.  Been doing that >5.5 years and don't mind it, first on a Focus and now an Escape.  It's second nature by now.

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18 hours ago, fordmantpw said:

 

Why fumble for the fob when you can just touch the front door the same you would the back?  I know, it's one extra step, but sheesh, it's not near enough to make me switch brands and buy an inferior vehicle.


The correct question is why would Lincoln not simply charge the additional $7 and implement the full feature rather than assuming customers who already will spend $35-70 wouldn’t pay literally a few dollars more to render moot the entire subject.

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3 hours ago, Remford said:


The correct question is why would Lincoln not simply charge the additional $7 and implement the full feature rather than assuming customers who already will spend $35-70 wouldn’t pay literally a few dollars more to render moot the entire subject.


Because it’s not that simple. there’s additional hardware and wiring needed in the rear doors. Handles, latches, wiring harness are all different than vehicles without it. I used to do the rear door handle install job occasionally back in the days of the Focus before they eliminated the keyless entry for MY2014. It was never a big deal to me since all the door handles came sequenced already but I can see why they eliminated it. Easier on production process too. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

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On 9/9/2022 at 9:30 PM, Andrew L said:

 

 

One thing with Ford over the years are their engine bays are pretty ugly.  I prefer having the cover over it to hide that spaghetti mess of wires and such. 

The 1989 to 1995 Ford Taurus SHO engine bay was a good looker. That Yamaha built engine had purposeful intakes. Opening that hood was always a joy. My 2014 SHO, looks like it was outsourced to Rubbermaid. My friend's, Lexus 450h is even worse. Removed about a dozen push pins to find the air cleaner.

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