UAW Demands 46% Pay Hike

[Bob Rosadini]

6 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

So I suppose Tesla workers are never gonna want a raise and are just gonna stay at the same rate of pay??

 

Of course they won't.  If they are realistic they will hope to get somewhere close to current UAW rates I would think.  By the way what are current UAW dues?  And are there any union paid for benefits-other than a newsletter.?

[paintguy]

17 hours ago, Flying68 said:

Tesla enjoys significant cost advantages over the all the other manufacturers.  One big component is labor rate.  I don't know why the UAW hasn't aggressively pursued unionizing Tesla.

I find that very interesting. Would think UAW organizers would be all over it. The foreign transplants largely locate in the South. Unfriendly to unions and traditionally lower cost of living. Although what I hear from Southern friends and relatives, this is changing. California, with the former GM and NUMMI plant is a high cost area. As a former unionized facility, most unions would campaign aggressively to keep the facility union. Know several former Ford employees who went to Tesla in California. One, with a large family came back as he only got temporary housing and could not afford something to accommodate his family. This was salary side, so can only imagine hourly is worse.

Edited September 21, 2023 by paintguy
spelling

[Oac98]

22 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

Of course they won't.  If they are realistic they will hope to get somewhere close to current UAW rates I would think.  By the way what are current UAW dues?  And are there any union paid for benefits-other than a newsletter.?

I’m unifor don’t know about UAW dues . 

[Bob Rosadini]

2 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

There is higher turn over in here amongst in progression workers. This is a fact. Lower pay can also be a factor in higher turnover. 

 

Did you ever think  if there wasn't a union, good performers just might get raises sooner. Much easier to recognize good effort/performance without contractual restraints.

And I should ad I've been retired 13 years and I'm sure in this woke world  there are probably all sorts of "equality" rules that must be considered

[Bob Rosadini]

6 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

I’m unifor don’t know about UAW dues . 

thx- I know -was a general question

[hllywd]

6 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

Did you ever think  if there wasn't a union, good performers just might get raises sooner. Much easier to recognize good effort/performance without contractual restraints.

And I should ad I've been retired 13 years and I'm sure in this woke world  there are probably all sorts of "equality" rules that must be considered

That's a side effect of "equal pay for equal work" and its cousin "we're all equal merit and ability". No, we aren't all equal merit and ability. Perhaps that might've been true in our father's and grandfather's Big Three, where most (if not all) hourly new hires were 17/18 year old kids directly out of high school. Many nowadays (like myself) were in our 30s/40s when we hired in. Some ran their own businesses. Others had management experience and college degrees. Some had technical experience like CAD or machine shop experience. It's frustrating to lose out on a bid job to someone with poor reading, writing and communication skills and zero technical ability.

[hllywd]

31 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

By the way what are current UAW dues?  And are there any union paid for benefits-other than a newsletter.?

Dues were 2 hours per month until a few years back when it was raised to 2.5 hours per month. I've predicted after this current situation that within a few months we'll be notified that dues will be raised to 4 hours per month. Regarding benefits, we don't even get the newsletter on a regular basis anymore. When they do publish its online so we have to download and/or print it. We do get a union jacket every so often but that's about it.

[fuzzymoomoo]

19 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

thx- I know -was a general question

2 1/2 hours per month 

[paintguy]

18 hours ago, akirby said:

Perhaps I was a bit harsh but all workers are unhappy with their employers at some point.  Mine took away 5 days of vacation  a couple of years ago. I wasn’t at all happy about it, but looking at it objectively I enjoyed 33 days of vacation for the last 15+ years which is FAR more than most.  So while I don’t like it, if you compare it to other companies it’s still a great deal.  I also lost retiree medical coverage subsidies but again that’s the new standard in most companies because of rising health care costs,   If I don’t like it I’m free to go work somewhere else.  Or retire.

 

Companies that have significantly higher labor costs than their direct competition and single digit profit margins are one price war or economic downturn away from bankruptcy.

Ford salary lost retiree health care some time ago and receive a payment that essentially pays some of my Medicare payment. Salary hired after 2003? do not have defined benefit pension. Asked some newer workers if they received a better 401K match. Not at all. Medical insurance increased substantially over the years. Sure, salary received some higher increases over years, but there were years when raises were not universal or did not match even the mild inflation of the time. 

And in response of your other response, businesses with single digit profit margins are very vulnerable to market fluctuations. Worked in chemicals before Ford. Companies became nervous when margins slipped to 15%. Sure Ford make more money. But the investment in automotive is massive. The  coming obsolescence anticipated with BEVs is staggering in cost. But both company and union support the government in these efforts. (at the risk of becoming political) So they know the basics of what is coming. The profits Ford "enjoys" are unlikely to hold up in this transformation.

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by paintguy
spelling

[fuzzymoomoo]

9 minutes ago, hllywd said:

We do get a union jacket every so often but that's about it.

The only jacket I’ve ever gotten was after the Bronco launch

[Oac98]

23 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

Did you ever think  if there wasn't a union, good performers just might get raises sooner. Much easier to recognize good effort/performance without contractual restraints.

And I should ad I've been retired 13 years and I'm sure in this woke world  there are probably all sorts of "equality" rules that must be considered

No, never put any thought into that period to be honest. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

7 minutes ago, paintguy said:

But both company and union support the government in these efforts. (at the risk of becoming political) So they know the basics of what is coming. The profits Ford "enjoys" are unlikely to old up in this transformation.

To that end the union could definitely be less confrontational about the coming transition. There has to be a way to maintain job security while not giving up the farm order to do so. 
 

It’s very similar to what we’ve seen in the week since the strike began. Instead of a 2-way dialogue happening the union is making the company do all the leg work instead of actually legitimately negotiating. 

[hllywd]

12 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

To that end the union could definitely be less confrontational about the coming transition. There has to be a way to maintain job security while not giving up the farm order to do so. 
 

It’s very similar to what we’ve seen in the week since the strike began. Instead of a 2-way dialogue happening the union is making the company do all the leg work instead of actually legitimately negotiating. 

As usual, I agree with Fuzzy. To me, the best contracts have been a result of less antagonistic, more mutual beneficiaries in a spirit of cooperation where both union and company benefit.

Edited September 21, 2023 by hllywd

[Bob Rosadini]

33 minutes ago, hllywd said:

That's a side effect of "equal pay for equal work" and its cousin "we're all equal merit and ability". No, we aren't all equal merit and ability. Perhaps that might've been true in our father's and grandfather's Big Three, where most (if not all) hourly new hires were 17/18 year old kids directly out of high school. Many nowadays (like myself) were in our 30s/40s when we hired in. Some ran their own businesses. Others had management experience and college degrees. Some had technical experience like CAD or machine shop experience. It's frustrating to lose out on a bid job to someone with poor reading, writing and communication skills and zero technical ability.

 

So contract has no qualification other than seniority?  That truly sucks..  In my "day", most contracts  had language under Job postings that were like...Preference will be given to senior most "qualified" employee.  Now if you awarded job to other  than senior bidder you  had better have a good case as to why he did..excuse me...he/she.did not get job or you would have a grievance.

[paintguy]

27 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

To that end the union could definitely be less confrontational about the coming transition. There has to be a way to maintain job security while not giving up the farm order to do so. 
 

It’s very similar to what we’ve seen in the week since the strike began. Instead of a 2-way dialogue happening the union is making the company do all the leg work instead of actually legitimately negotiating. 

.A technique called Interest Bargaining was a subject in the 1990s. Work on points of agreement and what accommodations each side could make. Not soft bargaining, but reduce confrontation and come to agreement sooner. The rhetoric sounds like this strike could get much larger and much more destructive faster. If the Big 3 lose customers to competitors due to lack of product, those customers will be hard to regain. I have a situation in my own home where the desired product was cancelled and my wife bought a used competitor vehicle. At least it was a vehicle already built and sold. Already seeing it will be difficult to get her back in a Ford or Lincoln. Will need to be something special. Probably cost me a fortune. But what doesn't these days.

[akirby]

I don’t understand why they don’t have mediation or arbitration to come to some reasonable settlement.

[silvrsvt]

52 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

To that end the union could definitely be less confrontational about the coming transition. There has to be a way to maintain job security while not giving up the farm order to do so. 
 

It’s very similar to what we’ve seen in the week since the strike began. Instead of a 2-way dialogue happening the union is making the company do all the leg work instead of actually legitimately negotiating. 

 

Do you think the union is being militant about things because of the past 20 years and some of the shady stuff that happened with FCA? 

 

[silvrsvt]

5 minutes ago, akirby said:

I don’t understand why they don’t have mediation or arbitration to come to some reasonable settlement.

 

hasn't gone on long enough IMO, maybe in 30 days or so, but otherwise lots of damage is gonna happen between now and then. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

9 minutes ago, akirby said:

I don’t understand why they don’t have mediation or arbitration to come to some reasonable settlement.

That would require government intervention which the UAW has refused. Personally I’m glad, we aren’t the railroad union, we are under no obligation to accept government intervention. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

11 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Do you think the union is being militant about things because of the past 20 years and some of the shady stuff that happened with FCA? 

 

it’s certainly not helping 

[hllywd]

9 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

hasn't gone on long enough IMO, maybe in 30 days or so, but otherwise lots of damage is gonna happen between now and then. 

Agreed. And with some striking while others work, the damage isn't merely between hourly and company; it's getting ugly between hourly and hourly. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

15 minutes ago, hllywd said:

Agreed. And with some striking while others work, the damage isn't merely between hourly and company; it's getting ugly between hourly and hourly. 

Im staying out of the Facebook groups until this is over. It’s getting rather chippy. I got my ass chewed for saying I don’t think the unifor contract will have any impact on us because there’s only a 1 way dialogue (if that) happening right now. 

[Footballfan]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

I don’t understand why they don’t have mediation or arbitration to come to some reasonable settlement.

Union leaders do not want to resort to arbitration/mediation because they fear the membership would consider them weak or incompetent if they cannot reach an agreement on their own . 

[silvrsvt]

5 hours ago, Footballfan said:

Union leaders do not want to resort to arbitration/mediation because they fear the membership would consider them weak or incompetent if they cannot reach an agreement on their own . 

 

That is all fine and good till reality hits the workers in the face when they can't pay their bills and mortgages. Which I already think is on some of their minds. 

 

I think Ford might be in a better position here in that regard. 

 

It just seems like the UAW leadership is being an asshole just to prove a point...when in the grand scheme of things they are actually closer then they want to admit?

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

It just seems like the UAW leadership is being an asshole just to prove a point...when in the grand scheme of things they are actually closer then they want to admit?

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I don’t hate that most recent offer. Make the COLA formula a little stronger, limit the amount of time a temp can be a temp to 90 days (I’ll settle for 6 months) with zero caveat and make the wage progression the length of 1 contract and I’m good with it. 
 

It still wouldn’t surprise me if Ford were to settle first. We don’t have nearly the same issues that GM and Stellantis have when it comes to plant closures and the parts divisions. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by fuzzymoomoo