UAW Demands 46% Pay Hike

[Deanh]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

It is a host of different things:

https://www.theautopian.com/electric-vehicle-demand-summer-2023/
 

 

 

IMO I think the cratering in demand is over reported and not as big of deal as people are making it out to be. 

first hand I can attest its not over reported...it may be Ford specific, but I know a LOT of  individuals at other Ford stores that would echo my sentiment....it may be temporary.. but right now stagnant is an understatement.....

[hllywd]

Anybody see this? Have no clue with regards to its veracity. Was forwarded to me by a buddy at ISA in Wayne.

Edited September 25, 2023 by hllywd

[jasonj80]

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/2023/09/25/ford-marshall-project/70964122007/
 

Looks like the Michigan battery plant is done. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, hllywd said:

Anybody see this? Have no clue with regards to its veracity. Was forwarded to me by a buddy at ISA in Wayne.

Yeah, it’s been making the rounds on Facebook. I’m not sure who that motor city crime report guy is but he seems pretty confident. 

[hllywd]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Yeah, it’s been making the rounds on Facebook. I’m not sure who that motor city crime report guy is but he seems pretty confident. 

While I admire his journalistic integrity for not revealing his source, the "I have heard..." line leaves me skeptical. At least MSM will quote "a high ranking UAW official who asked to remain anonymous because he was not authorized to speak on the record". Ford said over the weekend that we remain miles apart on wages and economic matters. Then with today's announcement regarding the Marshall (MI) battery plant being paused and Fain's reaction, color me skeptical (but hopeful) that an agreement is imminent.

[fuzzymoomoo]

24 minutes ago, hllywd said:

While I admire his journalistic integrity for not revealing his source, the "I have heard..." line leaves me skeptical. At least MSM will quote "a high ranking UAW official who asked to remain anonymous because he was not authorized to speak on the record". Ford said over the weekend that we remain miles apart on wages and economic matters. Then with today's announcement regarding the Marshall (MI) battery plant being paused and Fain's reaction, color me skeptical (but hopeful) that an agreement is imminent.

It would certainly provide one hell of a distraction 

 

As far as Fain’s reaction is concerned, I would expect that from him no matter what else is going on. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by fuzzymoomoo

[Captainp4]

19 hours ago, akirby said:

I predicted a plateau and we’re pretty close but I think it’s mainly about pricing right now.  Drop prices $10k - $20k and sales will accelerate again. You’re just not going to get huge sales volume from $60k+ vehicles.

Price would help, but I think with F and many others it's a product issue. While the ones they have out are great first efforts and come close, they still, in general, don't match comparable Teslas, cost more, and don't have access to the super charging network. Obviously most of this will change in the next few years, but the current BEV product is mostly "you almost had it" and I think it's starting to show.

[akirby]

3 hours ago, Captainp4 said:

Price would help, but I think with F and many others it's a product issue. While the ones they have out are great first efforts and come close, they still, in general, don't match comparable Teslas, cost more, and don't have access to the super charging network. Obviously most of this will change in the next few years, but the current BEV product is mostly "you almost had it" and I think it's starting to show.

Demand was high until the price increases.  And Ford will have access to the Tesla network.  I think demand was limited for the current products (and BEVs in general) but once you get past $50k the number of potential buyers drops rapidly.

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

Demand was high until the price increases.  And Ford will have access to the Tesla network.  I think demand was limited for the current products (and BEVs in general) but once you get past $50k the number of potential buyers drops rapidly.

BEV manufacturers weren’t prepared for the increases in material costs, I think it blew up  their plans once early adopters got their vehicles and moved on. Companies like Ford will now spend years trying to do this or that with the new BEVs but it looks like most new vehicle buyers are not interested in BEVs, they’d sooner wait until the battery and charging technology is way more mature.

[paintguy]

13 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

BEV manufacturers weren’t prepared for the increases in material costs, I think it blew up  their plans once early adopters got their vehicles and moved on. Companies like Ford will now spend years trying to do this or that with the new BEVs but it looks like most new vehicle buyers are not interested in BEVs, they’d sooner wait until the battery and charging technology is way more mature.

Think that is the benefit to having customers dip their toe into electrification through HEV or PHEV. I have had HEV and am open to PHEV. BEV still not there with the Ford charging network available now. My neighbor went BEV after owning a Volt PHEV. He does mostly short trips ad commuting. Doubt he uses a supercharger. Only so many realize that. 

[Deanh]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

Demand was high until the price increases.  And Ford will have access to the Tesla network.  I think demand was limited for the current products (and BEVs in general) but once you get past $50k the number of potential buyers drops rapidly.

...I think initial demand was more hype based than price, that said initially at least , the buyers all made 6 figures plus...demand didnt seem to go up in the slightest when Ford dropped the prices...at the most it was negligible, but the pricing is STILL not cheap in the slightest...and I cant forget 1 particularly pissed off Lightning buyer ( 10k price drop day after he bought his...he even called Ford directly....)

[jpd80]

9 minutes ago, paintguy said:

Think that is the benefit to having customers dip their toe into electrification through HEV or PHEV. I have had HEV and am open to PHEV. BEV still not there with the Ford charging network available now. My neighbor went BEV after owning a Volt PHEV. He does mostly short trips ad commuting. Doubt he uses a supercharger. Only so many realize that. 

The question now for automakers is how to take that small group of hybrid / PHEV /BEV buyers and make the volume more than say Prius was at it height. There will always be people interested in efficiency and new technology, it’s getting the rest to even try electrification that’s difficult, politics is playing a part here with people liking or disliking BEVs for reasons other than actual limitations.

[jpd80]

15 minutes ago, Deanh said:

...I think initial demand was more hype based than price, that said initially at least , the buyers all made 6 figures plus...demand didnt seem to go up in the slightest when Ford dropped the prices...at the most it was negligible, but the pricing is STILL not cheap in the slightest...and I cant forget 1 particularly pissed off Lightning buyer ( 10k price drop day after he bought his...he even called Ford directly....)

Mach E national dealer  inventory continues to increase but a little slower now that production has been returned to it previous level. It not a good look being stuck with BEVs that are hard to shift without incentives, I wonder how long until Ford cries uncle and starts giving dealers money to move them. Pride and hubris play a part here, it will take a while for Ford to realise that it’s playing with an empty hand…….

Edited September 26, 2023 by jpd80

[Deanh]

7 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Mach E national dealer  inventory continues to increase but a little slower now that production has been returned to it previous level. It not a good look being stuck with BEVs that are hard to shift without incentives, I wonder how long until Ford cries uncle and starts giving dealers money to move them. Pride and hubris play a part here, it will take a while for Ford to realise that it’s playing with an empty hand…….

there has been money hand over fist for the BEV Transits.....I doubt they will put too much on the Mach E's being they are being basically sold at a loss...Lightnings I cant comment on...but I havent received any calls on them what so ever...of the 3 in the lineup, the "Machs" are the most "popular " ( if thats the correct word for something moving so slowly )

[tbone]

2 hours ago, Deanh said:

...and I cant forget 1 particularly pissed off Lightning buyer ( 10k price drop day after he bought his...he even called Ford directly....)

I’m not sure I would buy another Ford if that happened to me.   But at the same time, where do you draw the line.  

[Deanh]

1 hour ago, tbone said:

I’m not sure I would buy another Ford if that happened to me.   But at the same time, where do you draw the line.  

It was a 10k difference completely out of our hands, and FWIW Ford TD'ed him.....

[Rangers09]

6 hours ago, paintguy said:

Think that is the benefit to having customers dip their toe into electrification through HEV or PHEV. I have had HEV and am open to PHEV. BEV still not there with the Ford charging network available now. My neighbor went BEV after owning a Volt PHEV. He does mostly short trips ad commuting. Doubt he uses a supercharger. Only so many realize that. 

 

Totally agree and the PHEV route was our option. I am happy with driving on electric, but am even happier to know that we have the gas engine for back-up. Sure helped us a couple of nights ago, when we drained the battery before getting home, on a trip we have done many times, usually having 15-20% battery remaining. Yes, ambient temperature and use of the cabin heater put a significant dent in the range.

 

Regardless of how much we are enjoying the PHEV, the experience has not converted us to a BEV, at least in the short/medium term,. If anything, the PHEV has confirmed my research, as by highlighting the BEV's significant limitations, it confirmed we purchased the correct vehicle for our needs, at this time.

[ice-capades]

COMMENTARY: Autoworkers Union Veers Off the Road in Demanding More Money for Less Work

Washington Post Writers Group via Las Vegas Review-Journal

https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/ruben-navarette-jr-autoworkers-union-veers-off-the-road-in-demanding-more-money-for-less-work-2911444/?utm_campaign=widget&utm_medium=latest&utm_source=opinion&utm_term=RUBEN NAVARETTE JR.%3A Autoworkers union veers off the road in demanding more money for less work

 

 

Las Vegas Review-Journal_2023-09-27_Commentary_Autoworker Union Veers Off Road With Strike Demand.pdf

Edited September 27, 2023 by ice-capades
Additional Content

[fuzzymoomoo]

The fact the media has latched onto this 32 hour week thing is absolutely hysterical. Shows what a joke they really are. 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

The fact the media has latched onto this 32 hour week thing is absolutely hysterical. Shows what a joke they really are. 

Not at all.  That’s what Fain is/was demanding.  You can’t make demands, go on strike when those demands aren’t met and then tell the media to ignore those demands. If it’s not a real demand it shouldn’t still be on the table at this point.

[fuzzymoomoo]

38 minutes ago, akirby said:

Not at all.  That’s what Fain is/was demanding.  You can’t make demands, go on strike when those demands aren’t met and then tell the media to ignore those demands. If it’s not a real demand it shouldn’t still be on the table at this point.

Fain hasn’t publicly talked about it in at least 2 weeks 

[Oac98]

3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

The fact the media has latched onto this 32 hour week thing is absolutely hysterical. Shows what a joke they really are. 

We all know that shit isn’t gonna happen! It is quite hysterical for real. 

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

We all know that shit isn’t gonna happen! It is quite hysterical for real. 

 

But that is the issue-now your just asking for things that aren't going to happen that are going to muddy the conversation on real issues. 

[Deanh]

54 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But that is the issue-now your just asking for things that aren't going to happen that are going to muddy the conversation on real issues. 

deflection tactics...very commonly used in Politics....create noise over here to take away from whats REALLY happening over there.... 

[wildosvt]

18 minutes ago, Deanh said:

deflection tactics...very commonly used in Politics....create noise over here to take away from whats REALLY happening over there.... 

 

Exactly, The sole reason Biden came to Michigan is because Trump said he was.