fuzzymoomoo Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 9 minutes ago, wildosvt said: Exactly, The sole reason Biden came to Michigan is because Trump said he was. How many people do you know want either of them around? I don’t know anyone. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 3 hours ago, silvrsvt said: But that is the issue-now your just asking for things that aren't going to happen that are going to muddy the conversation on real issues. Well I hope the UAW and Ford can come to an agreement sometime soon. Well I think we all know what the major sticking points are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 9 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: The fact the media has latched onto this 32 hour week thing is absolutely hysterical. Shows what a joke they really are. 6 hours ago, Oacjay98 said: We all know that shit isn’t gonna happen! It is quite hysterical for real. For sure. Elon Musk got sucked into those media hysterics yesterday. Maybe UAW is ramping up its efforts to organize Tesla workers in California and Texas? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 39 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said: Well I hope the UAW and Ford can come to an agreement sometime soon. Well I think we all know what the major sticking points are. Rumors are abound that the deal is done and we’re just waiting on an official announcement. Could come Friday during the next live-stream or it could come 2 minutes from now, assuming the rumor is even true to begin with. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintguy Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 40 minutes ago, rperez817 said: For sure. Elon Musk got sucked into those media hysterics yesterday. Maybe UAW is ramping up its efforts to organize Tesla workers in California and Texas? Surprised there was not an attempt already. After all Fremont was previously a UAW facility. Musk taking the opportunity to say this about other companies. If there were an attempt he could not say this about his own company, Tesla. It would be considered a threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 42 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Rumors are abound that the deal is done and we’re just waiting on an official announcement. Could come Friday during the next live-stream or it could come 2 minutes from now, assuming the rumor is even true to begin with. Well if it’s true I hope you guys are happy with the deal. Ours was somewhat controversial with Oakville and Windsor trades voting no and Oakville production voting no. Windsor production voted in favor and they got to 54 percent which many people feel is a fraud from the union. Anyways I hope that if you get a deal it’s a good one and the membership are more in favor than we were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 1 hour ago, rperez817 said: For sure. Elon Musk got sucked into those media hysterics yesterday. Maybe UAW is ramping up its efforts to organize Tesla workers in California and Texas? I hope they try to organize Tesla. Their workers will want more too at some point very soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 16 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: How many people do you know want either of them around? I don’t know anyone. The dislike for Biden or Trump is fairly equal. But the support for Trump is much higher than alot of people realize. While I wasn't there, I know for certain there were UAW members at that event last night. People from our Local wanted to hear both Biden and Trump (great position if you ask me). You see they canceled Biden from coming to our Local due to the feedback. I am one who wishes to keep politics out of it. Fain is leaving the membership guessing as hard as the company. He should have kept that same energy with the Oligarchy too. But no. Same ol UAW! Let me pull that zipper down because you came and gave a lip service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM222 Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 13 hours ago, rperez817 said: For sure. Elon Musk got sucked into those media hysterics yesterday. Maybe UAW is ramping up its efforts to organize Tesla workers in California and Texas? Jim Farley is thinking the same thing. Quote Chief Executive Jim Farley said Thursday the United Auto Workers union proposal to hike wages by 40%, cut workweeks and add new pension benefits could bankrupt the company. "You want us to choose bankruptcy over supporting our workers," Farley, in a CNBC interview, said of the UAW proposal. He said there are no current talks, and the automaker has received no counteroffer. "Nothing is going on." -Ford CEO says UAW proposal could force bankruptcy | Reuters UAW wants a 40% pay raise from car companies that are investing heavily on EVs . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 22 minutes ago, wildosvt said: People from our Local wanted to hear both Biden and Trump (great position if you ask me). You’re not wrong, but I don’t want to hear what either of them have to say TBH because I can probably already guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 13 hours ago, Oacjay98 said: I hope they try to organize Tesla. Their workers will want more too at some point very soon. If you don’t like your current compensation or working conditions go find another job. Employers have the right to determine compensation and workforce based on their competition and market conditions. What if you hired someone to paint your house for $5k and after they had been working for a couple of hours and they said “We see that you have expensive cars so you must be making a lot of money. We want $10k instead of $5K and if you don’t give it to us we’ll block your driveway. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 13 minutes ago, akirby said: Employers have the right to determine compensation and workforce based on their competition and market conditions. And employees have the right to organize into labor unions, engage in collective bargaining, and take collective action such as strikes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 2 hours ago, rperez817 said: And employees have the right to organize into labor unions, engage in collective bargaining, and take collective action such as strikes. I don't think anyone has posted anything to the contrary or did I miss that? I think Mr Fain ignores the word "bargaining". When I first became involved in bargaining more years ago than I want to acknowledge, unions presented "Demands"..at least they did in the unions I was involved with. Over the years the term "demands" gave way to "proposals". For sure Fain would have been at home 50 years ago. Another interesting "style" Mr Fain has...if I read correctly he was at an open meeting and a dues payer said words to the effect "we want a 32 hour work week.. He could have responded ..."you mean a 4 day 10 hr schedule?" He didn't , but rather indicated something like..."I believe we can add that". Recognizing that both sides of the table would have "throw away" proposals, the key was IMO they should always be feasible and not be completely unrealistic. Fain put himself out on a limb with so many of his "demands", and now management has to skillfully get him off of that limb without embarrassing him. As If said before and IMO...best settlement is one in which neither side can claim they were the winner. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 4 hours ago, akirby said: If you don’t like your current compensation or working conditions go find another job. Employers have the right to determine compensation and workforce based on their competition and market conditions. What if you hired someone to paint your house for $5k and after they had been working for a couple of hours and they said “We see that you have expensive cars so you must be making a lot of money. We want $10k instead of $5K and if you don’t give it to us we’ll block your driveway. You’re gonna compare a couple of hours work from a contractor?? Who on earth would accept that??? So people who are working at a company for years are in a similar scenario??!! Look, all I am saying without the scenarios is that eventually Tesla wages will go up. That’s all I’m saying. I’m wrong for saying the workers will want more at some point?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said: I don't think anyone has posted anything to the contrary or did I miss that? Earlier in this thread, an entirely improper analogy was presented which compared employees of an automaker to contractors hired by a hypothetical homeowner for house painting work. Wagner Act guarantees the former group rights to organize, collectively bargain, and strike. Those rights do not apply to the latter group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 33 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said: You’re gonna compare a couple of hours work from a contractor?? Who on earth would accept that??? So people who are working at a company for years are in a similar scenario??!! Look, all I am saying without the scenarios is that eventually Tesla wages will go up. That’s all I’m saying. I’m wrong for saying the workers will want more at some point?? It’s the same concept. You’re paid to perform physical labor just like a painter. Everyone is entitled to raises to offset inflation. But the cost of that labor is set by the local market. You can’t charge $10k for a paint job if all your competitors are only charging $5k for the same work. Nobody will hire you. Likewise nobody is paying a $10k premium to buy a Ford over a similar Toyota or Tesla just because the workers want more money. And how much the ceo or the company makes is irrelevant because you’re still just being paid to perform a task and that task has a certain market value. It may be hard work but so is digging ditches. i understand wanting more money and not wanting to change jobs but in the real world if you want more (beyond inflation) you either work to get a higher paying position (supervisor e.g.) or go to another company. And if no company is offering more money for that work then that’s the market rate. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintguy Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 5 hours ago, akirby said: If you don’t like your current compensation or working conditions go find another job. Employers have the right to determine compensation and workforce based on their competition and market conditions. What if you hired someone to paint your house for $5k and after they had been working for a couple of hours and they said “We see that you have expensive cars so you must be making a lot of money. We want $10k instead of $5K and if you don’t give it to us we’ll block your driveway. I actually had a lawn care company give a quote for service double what my neighbor has. (He has a larger yard). The rep said my house was previously owned by a doctor as justification. Replied, well I'm not a doctor. Needless to say, I don't use them. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Earlier in this thread, an entirely improper analogy was presented which compared employees of an automaker to contractors hired by a hypothetical homeowner for house painting work. Wagner Act guarantees the former group rights to organize, collectively bargain, and strike. Those rights do not apply to the latter group. Once again you completely missed the point. What if the going rate for landscapers in your area was $12/hr and one day your family’s employees demanded $24/hr because your family made a lot of money last year. You can’t raise prices because your competitors are still paying $12/hr so they aren’t raising their prices. If you give them $24/hr you won’t make any profit. What do you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, paintguy said: I actually had a lawn care company give a quote for service double what my neighbor has. (He has a larger yard). The rep said my house was previously owned by a doctor as justification. Replied, well I'm not a doctor. Needless to say, I don't use them. Exactly, and while they can get away with that in isolated cases where a consumer doesn’t care, they can’t get away with it for most consumers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 18 minutes ago, akirby said: Once again you completely missed the point. What if the going rate for landscapers in your area was $12/hr and one day your family’s employees demanded $24/hr because your family made a lot of money last year. You can’t raise prices because your competitors are still paying $12/hr so they aren’t raising their prices. If you give them $24/hr you won’t make any profit. What do you do? Once again you presented a completely faulty comparison. The going rate for landscapers in my area has no relevance to the ongoing negotiations between UAW and Ford, GM, and Stellantis, or to whether or not Tesla workers in Texas and California decide to join UAW in the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 22 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Once again you presented a completely faulty comparison. The going rate for landscapers in my area has no relevance to the ongoing negotiations between UAW and Ford, GM, and Stellantis, or to whether or not Tesla workers in Texas and California decide to join UAW in the future. It’s exactly the same situation. You didn’t answer the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 56 minutes ago, akirby said: It’s exactly the same situation. You didn’t answer the question. The situations are completely different, so there's no question to answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 Bill Ford himself doesn’t even want the political cretins around https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2023/09/28/uaw-strike-bill-ford-gets-angry-at-politicians/70993400007/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 9 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Bill Ford himself doesn’t even want the political cretins around https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2023/09/28/uaw-strike-bill-ford-gets-angry-at-politicians/70993400007/ I don’t blame him one bit. They’re only seeking votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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