UAW Demands 46% Pay Hike

[Sparked1]

From what I've seen it would be a yes from me. I don't want a pension, just an increase in the match. Also, if we are holding out because of battery plants, well that's some bs. Stop the theatrics and present something to the membership.

[silvrsvt]

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2023/10/05/uaw-strike-shawn-fain-live-announcement/71071971007/

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

14 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2023/10/05/uaw-strike-shawn-fain-live-announcement/71071971007/

 

Yep. The dog and pony show continues. Freaking enough already. Give us something to vote on FFS. 
 

It’s incredibly stupid I can only say this here where I have anonymity or to my closest friends.  

Edited October 6, 2023 by fuzzymoomoo

[Sparked1]

17 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Yep. The dog and pony show continues. Freaking enough already. Give us something to vote on FFS. 
 

It’s incredibly stupid I can only say this here where I have anonymity or to my closest friends.  

I'm right there with you. Beyond ridiculous and I'm really getting tired of the middle school games that are being played. Fin.

[akirby]

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

And yet Ford increase prices that are sometimes not in line with increases in supplier costs. Ford can and does increase prices but it’s done gradually so that it’s not a sudden price shock, it’s almost a constant thing now where buyers just expect the price to be higher than last year.

 

And if most other companies are also increasing prices, it doesn’t stand out as much.

That’s what I said.  If others are increasing prices or it’s done gradually or it’s due to supply/demand then it’s within the market   But if Ford is the only one raising prices it outside of supply and demand it will impact sales.

 

[mackinaw]

3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Yep. The dog and pony show continues. Freaking enough already. Give us something to vote on FFS. ......

 

So how does this work?  Do you, and others, tell your main union rep that you'd like to vote on the latest proposal?  Or does the bargaining committee control everything and they decide when a proposal merits a vote?

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, Sparked1 said:

if we are holding out because of battery plants, well that's some bs. Stop the theatrics and present something to the membership.

 

Those battery plants are a pillar of Ford Motor Company's entire existence in the near future, and UAW has a legitimate concern about the extent to which they will be staffed by UAW represented employees.

 

Hopefully as you mentioned UAW leadership will present something meaningful in this context to the membership.

[fuzzymoomoo]

6 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

So how does this work?  Do you, and others, tell your main union rep that you'd like to vote on the latest proposal?  Or does the bargaining committee control everything and they decide when a proposal merits a vote?

the latter, though it sounds like final approval goes through the president now. 

[T-dubz]

Sounds like the GM gave in on the battery plants. I’m not sure how that is even allowed to be part of the negotiating process. It doesn’t seem to be a valid reason for a strike since it’s not related to unfair labor practices or economics. 

[rperez817]

10 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

Sounds like the GM gave in on the battery plants. 

 

That's correct T-dubz. UAW was poised for a possible strike at GM's Arlington, Texas plant as a bargaining tactic for ensuring GM's Ultium battery plants are covered by the national UAW labor agreement. It worked. GM Ultium Plants To Be Included In National UAW Agreement (gmauthority.com)

 

Hopefully Ford agrees to a similar arrangement with UAW.

[jasonj80]

8 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

Sounds like the GM gave in on the battery plants. I’m not sure how that is even allowed to be part of the negotiating process. It doesn’t seem to be a valid reason for a strike since it’s not related to unfair labor practices or economics. 

Did they or is Fain just lying to get the others on board. It’s not like he hasn’t lied about other things up to this point. Look at the whole NLRB BS as soon as the NLRB needed information he dropped the charges. 
 

Even if GM gave in they still assemble considerably fewer vehicles in the US so the costs are not as high and puts Ford at a disadvantage. Also large parts of GM battery backs are assembled at suppliers and are either nonunion or different contract. 

[tbone]

I’m sorry, but Fain is coming across as a clown to me. It certainly seems like there’s been some valid proposals that you guys aren’t even getting a chance to consider. It’s pretty unprofessional if you ask me.

[twintornados]

On 10/5/2023 at 11:36 PM, mackinaw said:

 

So how does this work?  Do you, and others, tell your main union rep that you'd like to vote on the latest proposal?  Or does the bargaining committee control everything and they decide when a proposal merits a vote?

 

As a member of a union negotiation committee AND one that is preparing to go to the table soon, there are certain metrics that need to be met first prior to presenting an offer to the membership. With that said, our team has studied our employers ability to pay factor and what comparable unions also got in their negotiations and settlements. When all that is done, once a contract offer is presented, as a member of said negotiations committee, I am duty bound to present the offer in a positive manner (some would say "selling it") and if I did not and instead told my members that it sucked, I would be charged with bargaining in bad faith.

Here is the rub where I am from, while the contract is expired, we are open for a challenge to union representation - but even that is not all that it is cracked up to be since all negotiations comes to a grinding halt while said challenge is settled.

[Bob Rosadini]

On 10/5/2023 at 8:15 PM, fuzzymoomoo said:

Yep. The dog and pony show continues. Freaking enough already. Give us something to vote on FFS. 
 

It’s incredibly stupid I can only say this here where I have anonymity or to my closest friends.  

 

That is a sad statement. Unfortunately I think you have to do  all you can to educate what I can only describe as those who  fail to realize that their employer is in business to make a profit and stay competitive-not to provide jobs.  And as I previously pointed out, I initiated and "sold" a two tier contract by pushing the point that we would have no trouble getting applicants when we needed drivers.  "As long as there are faces pressed against the door looking in, two tiers would  work".  ( It's the economy stupid")  And by the way, the two tier employees would ultimately reach parity with the existing employees.  There was always light at the end of the tunnel..it was just a bit dimmer.

 

I think Ford's big mistake was running the program with unrealistic progression scales.  Its one thing when a person thinks of the senior guy whose locker is next to his, is at top pay and he has to  wait 48 mos to get there.  His memory still remembers where he came from.  But if he is waiting 72 mos...at some point he DOESN'T remember where he came from.

 

Hang in there Fuzzy.

[Bob Rosadini]

Well the Mack UAW contract talks were going well and a tentative agreement was reached subject to ratification..  

 

Today was announced the rank and file turned it down by a big margin.  I guess the wild numbers on the table for the big three clouded the Mack workers vision....Not exactly an apples to apples industry..and a lot of Mack's competitors have plants south of the border.

 

Anyway this was Fain's reaction............

 

"I'm inspired to see UAW members at Mack holding out for a better deal, and ready to stand up and walk off the job to win it," Fain said via statement.

 

Keep  in mind the deal was endorsed by the UAW International and the UAW Mack Truck Council...not sure what the "Truck Council"  is.

My guess the group that handles the rest of the class 7-8 builders-who are familiar with south of the border plants.

 

Now usually it seems to me whenever a deal was taken back to the membership, and the members rejected it,  most union responses would be words to the effect..."We regret that the membership rejected what your bargaining team considered to be a fair offer, however we will return to the table to pursue a better offer. 

Not Fain though

 

Bit of history-when Mack owned Brockway, after a few years, Brockway was using Mack cabs..long story short, Brockway's sole plant in Cortland NY, in contract negotiations rejects company offer.  Mack says .."no problem"  And shuts the operation down.  And Brockway was always a tough regional cpmpetitor to Mack. End of that problem.  Not suggesting conditions are the same today..But Mack is owned by Volvo.  Volvo has a huge plant in VA.  Mack/Volvo powertrains are basically the same .  Many say Mack's days are number....one day some guy in Sweden says..."why do we have these duplicated staffs etc etc.?  History of the trucking industry is filled with similar stories.

 

[Bob Rosadini]

10 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Well the Mack UAW contract talks were going well and a tentative agreement was reached subject to ratification..  

 

Today was announced the rank and file turned it down by a big margin.  I guess the wild numbers on the table for the big three clouded the Mack workers vision....Not exactly an apples to apples industry..and a lot of Mack's competitors have plants south of the border.

 

Anyway this was Fain's reaction............

 

"I'm inspired to see UAW members at Mack holding out for a better deal, and ready to stand up and walk off the job to win it," Fain said via statement.

 

Keep  in mind the deal was endorsed by the UAW International and the UAW Mack Truck Council...not sure what the "Truck Council"  is.

My guess the group that handles the rest of the class 7-8 builders-who are familiar with south of the border plants.

 

Now usually it seems to me whenever a deal was taken back to the membership, and the members rejected it,  most union responses would be words to the effect..."We regret that the membership rejected what your bargaining team considered to be a fair offer, however we will return to the table to pursue a better offer. 

Not Fain though

 

Bit of history-when Mack owned Brockway, after a few years, Brockway was using Mack cabs..long story short, Brockway's sole plant in Cortland NY, in contract negotiations rejects company offer.  Mack says .."no problem"  And shuts the operation down.  And Brockway was always a tough regional cpmpetitor to Mack. End of that problem.  Not suggesting conditions are the same today..But Mack is owned by Volvo.  Volvo has a huge plant in VA.  Mack/Volvo powertrains are basically the same .  Many say Mack's days are number....one day some guy in Sweden says..."why do we have these duplicated staffs etc etc.?  History of the trucking industry is filled with similar stories.

 

Make that.."days are numbered"

[akirby]

The system is broken when members reject a fair contract.  They’re probably just holding out for a big bribe signing bonus.

 

There needs to be mediation to resolve these impasses otherwise the companies will have to take drastic actions and that will be devastating to the workers.  
 

I remember a small business in NY where the workers went on strike and the owner told them point blank he couldn’t stay in business and meet their demands.  They persisted so he closed the business and they were all out of jobs.  Very similar to the Brockway situation.

[fuzzymoomoo]

40 minutes ago, akirby said:

The system is broken when members reject a fair contract.  They’re probably just holding out for a big bribe signing bonus.

This is what I was afraid of when Shawn Fain started his rhetoric. 
 

And no, I don’t think they’re holding out for a signing bonus. I think they see what’s on the table at Ford, GM, and Stellantis and want the same things. 

[akirby]

What is the legal impact if Ford draws a line and says take it or leave it and locks them out.  Can they just hire new workers (including current union workers who choose to cross the line)?

Edited October 10, 2023 by akirby

[silvrsvt]

12 minutes ago, akirby said:

What is the legal impact if Ford draws a line and says take it or leave it and locks them out.  Can they just hire new workers (including current union workers who choose to cross the line)?

 

I'm guessing if they take it up with the NLRB first and the UAW doesn't act in good faith (presents the plan to its employees) all bets are off?

[fuzzymoomoo]

15 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I'm guessing if they take it up with the NLRB first and the UAW doesn't act in good faith (presents the plan to its employees) all bets are off?

Im honestly surprised none of the 3 companies has gone to the NLRB over some of the rhetoric 

[Bob Rosadini]

50 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Im honestly surprised none of the 3 companies has gone to the NLRB over some of the rhetoric 

 

I don't think the NLRB has much objectivity these days if everything I have read is correct.

[GearheadGrrrl]

Lockout, fire and replace the strikers, etc. are tactics from an era of labor surpluses that won't work now. Volvo truck's other plant in Virginia voted down the contract a couple of times, workers are tired of Volvo treating them like second class autoworkers and Volvo's attempts to outsource chassis trimming and move medium duty assembly to a new non union plant have just made them madder. 

[akirby]

2 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

workers are tired of Volvo treating them like second class autoworkers 

So quit and go find a better job if there is one.   Using extortion to get more money after negotiators reach agreement with the company should be illegal.

[GearheadGrrrl]

Withdrawing one's services is not extortion.