Auto Execs Are Coming Clean, EVs Are Just Not Working...

[akirby]

17 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

You mean CEOs making $Millions don’t get why vehicles costing $100,000 are not flying off the shelves? ? 

That’s not it at all but we know that’s your hot button.

 

The problem is $10k-$30k price jumps almost overnight on the lower priced BEVs.

[Oac98]

34 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

 

I'd think at this stage that it's too late to make changes for the Oakville BEV conversion plans.

It likely is but who knows. 

[Oac98]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Absolutely, I sense that Ford might be at one of those pivoting moments….

It will be interesting to hear what they have to say in the coming weeks. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Oacjay98

[Chrisgb]

Maybe it's Dodge Magnum Syndrome. When the Magnum came out, It was a cool idea; sort of a reborn Chevy Nomad; a slinky wagon with a big motor, and sales started rocketing up double digit, over 50,000 units in 2005 its first full year. Pretty good for a niche vehicle. In 2008, sales had dropped to under 7,000, an SRT-8 version was introduced, and Chrysler cancelled the whole car almost simultaneously, It seems that everybody that wanted one bought one the first two years. 

Now we're seeing price drops, inventory piling up and dealers not filling allocation in the BEV space.  Does everybody that wants one have one, at least for now?

[akirby]

8 minutes ago, Chrisgb said:

 

Now we're seeing price drops, inventory piling up and dealers not filling allocation in the BEV space.  Does everybody that wants one have one, at least for now?

I think it’s almost all due to the huge recent price increases.  What people wanted at $40k is not what they’re willing to buy today at $60K.  Since most of these are wants and not needs I suspect inflation has made many reconsider buying any new vehicle right now.  Double whammy.

[AM222]

9 minutes ago, Chrisgb said:

Does everybody that wants one have one, at least for now?

I think early adopters are the ones with easy access to EV chargers.

 

EVs may be the future, but it isn't a practical choice for everybody now because of the high prices and charging infrastructure that still needs to keep up.

Imagine how many EV chargers are required to match the efficiency of gas station with 6 pumps.

We also have to accept the fact that Tesla is still the default choice for EVs.

Quote

Tesla Outsold Its Next 19 Competitors Combined In US In H1 2023
It wasn't even a contest as Tesla sold 325,291 EVs while the next 19 rivals totaled 214,542 EV sales.

-Tesla Outsold Its Next 19 Competitors Combined In US In H1 2023 (insideevs.com)

 

[Deanh]

34 minutes ago, akirby said:

I think it’s almost all due to the huge recent price increases.  What people wanted at $40k is not what they’re willing to buy today at $60K.  Since most of these are wants and not needs I suspect inflation has made many reconsider buying any new vehicle right now.  Double whammy.

maybe...but how are sales on cheaper units such as the Bolt?.....I think the ( and Ive parroted this before ) Evs right now have flatlined regardless of price. As I stated before ...they are sitting gateher dust and flooring and have been for a while...one could say maybe they are the future, maybe not...Im not sold in the slightest..too soon, too quick, fundementally flawed and then to top it off being basically told by the powers that be..."its my way or the highway " ignoring issues galore.....you do NOT tell Americans what they HAVE to do, and from a foreigner its something I actually respect...

[akirby]

7 minutes ago, Deanh said:

maybe...but how are sales on cheaper units such as the Bolt?.....I think the ( and Ive parroted this before ) Evs right now have flatlined regardless of price. As I stated before ...they are sitting gateher dust and flooring and have been for a while...one could say maybe they are the future, maybe not...Im not sold in the slightest..too soon, too quick, fundementally flawed and then to top it off being basically told by the powers that be..."its my way or the highway " ignoring issues galore.....you do NOT tell Americans what they HAVE to do, and from a foreigner its something I actually respect...

Did you not read the second part of my post?

[Deanh]

35 minutes ago, akirby said:

Did you not read the second part of my post?

which post? I may have glossed over it...but as far as $$$ go, Bolts start around 30k, and Mini is advertising EV leases at $299 and they arent moving, so Im not 100% certain price has anything to do with everyone "embracing" EV's as the future...thats said,  hee in So Cal every second car is a friggen Tesla...usually making me question how they goit a Drivers lic in the first place...Ive cut back substantially on riding the Motorbike..

Edited October 27, 2023 by Deanh

[akirby]

7 minutes ago, Deanh said:

which post? I may have glossed over it...but as far as $$$ go, Bolts start around 30k, and Mini is advertising EV leases at $299 and they arent moving, so Im not 100% certain price has anything to do with everyone "embracing" EV's as the future...thats said,  hee in So Cal every second car is a friggen Tesla...usually making me question how they goit a Drivers lic in the first place...Ive cut back substantially on riding the Motorbike..

The part where I said BEV purchases are almost always wants not needs and due to inflation a lot of folks are just pulling back on unnecessary expenditures.  Nobody who wanted a BEV has changed their mind, they’re just not willing to spend the money right now.

[silvrsvt]

47 minutes ago, AM222 said:

Imagine how many EV chargers are required to match the efficiency of gas station with 6 pumps.

 

Here's the thing though-if say 30-40% of people can charge at home or work, that isn't really an issue. 

 

Its a bit of a mindset change with charging vs fueling a car up. 

[silvrsvt]

6 minutes ago, akirby said:

The part where I said BEV purchases are almost always wants not needs and due to inflation a lot of folks are just pulling back on unnecessary expenditures.  Nobody who wanted a BEV has changed their mind, they’re just not willing to spend the money right now.

 

or are waiting till pricing or charging become more easily available. 

[akirby]

8 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

or are waiting till pricing or charging become more easily available. 

Yes but I was referring more to all the folks who ordered a BEV then backed out.  That’s almost 100% due to price/economy.

[Deanh]

14 minutes ago, akirby said:

The part where I said BEV purchases are almost always wants not needs and due to inflation a lot of folks are just pulling back on unnecessary expenditures.  Nobody who wanted a BEV has changed their mind, they’re just not willing to spend the money right now.

I did miss that, but I would politely dis-agree...ICE is plodding along quite fine...and would even be better barring constraints and recalls ( that camera issue is a doozie...I have over 20 vans out back effected...) 

[Deanh]

15 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

or are waiting till pricing or charging become more easily available. 

one issue there is ( here at least ) Homes arent affordable so everyone is migrating to rentals and appartments where charging facilities arent avail.....

[Deanh]

18 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Here's the thing though-if say 30-40% of people can charge at home or work, that isn't really an issue. 

 

Its a bit of a mindset change with charging vs fueling a car up. 

true...Ive also heard a lot of complaints about lines at charging stations....

[silvrsvt]

6 minutes ago, Deanh said:

true...Ive also heard a lot of complaints about lines at charging stations....

 

From who? I find that most people are just repeating "lies" of what they heard or are sharing videos of BEVs catching on Fire, when ICE does it on a normal day.

 

There is so much FUD out there (about anything) that its fucking annoying. 

[akirby]

12 minutes ago, Deanh said:

I did miss that, but I would politely dis-agree...ICE is plodding along quite fine...and would even be better barring constraints and recalls ( that camera issue is a doozie...I have over 20 vans out back effected...) 

ICE is cheaper and a lot of those purchases are necessary.  I still say this is mostly about dollars and less about BEV adoption.

[silvrsvt]

16 minutes ago, Deanh said:

I did miss that, but I would politely dis-agree...ICE is plodding along quite fine...and would even be better barring constraints and recalls ( that camera issue is a doozie...I have over 20 vans out back effected...) 

 

But for how long? I'm guessing the lack of luxury and EV sales are the canary in the coal mine when it comes to the greater health of the car sales market. 

 

The market has been so jacked up the past two-three years that I'm guessing we are still not at the levels pre covid or shortages either. 

[Rangers09]

19 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

From who? I find that most people are just repeating "lies" of what they heard or are sharing videos of BEVs catching on Fire, when ICE does it on a normal day.

 

There is so much FUD out there (about anything) that its fucking annoying. 

 

On one of the recent holiday weekends, one of our local TV news stations showed footage of Teslas queued up outside a charging station. Numerous irate drivers questioning their choice of vehicle for a road trip.

 

Might not happen where you live, but it sure does up here. We have also stayed at 2 of our condo in the last 4 months, and neither has any capability for charging.

[silvrsvt]

7 minutes ago, Rangers09 said:

On one of the recent holiday weekends, one of our local TV news stations showed footage of Teslas queued up outside a charging station. Numerous irate drivers questioning their choice of vehicle for a road trip.

 

Might not happen where you live, but it sure does up here. We have also stayed at 2 of our condo in the last 4 months, and neither has any capability for charging.

 

And you believe everything you see on TV also? That is the point I'm making-I can go to the local BJs for gas (where its about 30 cents cheaper) and have to sit in a line for 10-15 minutes because everyone else is being cheap and spin it as a lack of gas/gas stations or whatever. 

 

There was issues back in 2019

https://www.businessinsider.com/holiday-travel-long-wait-times-for-tesla-chargers-2019-12#some-did-see-teslas-efforts-to-install-extra-chargers-although-too-late-to-be-helpful-in-the-moment-9

And this is from last year, talking about charging:
https://skift.com/2022/05/27/electric-cars-hit-the-road-this-holiday-weekend-but-charging-stations-still-a-big-hurdle/

 

 

As you can see there was a significant jump in the amount of ports from 2018 to 2021. 

[ice-capades]

Not daily, but I frequently pass Tesla's on the road when I'm out around town. Less than a half mile from me is a long-standing retail strip, known as the "Magic Mile" with many national retailers and approximately 24 restaurants within a one-mile radius. There are thousands of apartments and condominiums located on the avenue that runs parallel to the retail area that has a very high daily traffic count which is also very close to a major highway. About 5 years ago, Tesla installed 12 chargers in one of the best known and centrally located shopping areas on the retail avenue. I pass the Tesla chargers at different times, almost daily, and have never seen more than 2 Tesla's being charged.

 

There are at least a half dozen condominium complexes on the avenue running parallel to the retail shopping district and approximately another 2 dozen apartment complexes that each include anywhere from 100-500 apartments each. As such, there's a fairly high resident and vehicle count concentrated in the 1.5-mile avenue length. I drive or walk past about a mile past all these condominiums and apartments at least 5 days per week. There are no charging stations at any of the locations yet. 

[Rick73]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

That’s not it at all but we know that’s your hot button.

 

The problem is $10k-$30k price jumps almost overnight on the lower priced BEVs.

It was meant as a joke, and for what it’s worth, you don’t know me at all; and even less what my hot button is.  I will say seriously that in my experience, people who are extremely wealthy have a different perspective on value of things; with possible exception of those who grew up poor and still remember the value of a dollar.  I find it funny when a guy justifies the great value of a $100k Tesla when he lives in a million dollar house and has million dollar toys.  I get it, to him it has great value, to the average American household that has little wealth not so much.  For me this difference is just a matter of fact, making price a reality we have to deal with.

 

I agree with you that one of biggest issues with BEVs is that price parity hasn’t been achieved yet, as originally speculated or estimated.  And to be clear, I don’t mean that entry BEVs are not available in same price range as ICE, I mean also comparable in capabilities.  I know $30k BEVs are available, but are those entry-level vehicles capable of meeting expectations?  Apparently too many buyers think not.  So yeah, I agree cost makes a big difference.

[tbone]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Here's the thing though-if say 30-40% of people can charge at home or work, that isn't really an issue. 

 

Its a bit of a mindset change with charging vs fueling a car up. 

It’s primarily going to be charging at home.  At best, employers in my area might have two chargers, most which are not fast chargers.  

[Deanh]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

ICE is cheaper and a lot of those purchases are necessary.  I still say this is mostly about dollars and less about BEV adoption.

? huh? ICE is most definitely not cheaper , but there are more choices.....name aEV price there will be an multiple ICE equivilents.....exactly how many ICE vehicles are avail below 30k? whats the average Transaction price now? ...and keep in mind , with ICE theres far fewer warts and restrictions...