Ford November 2023 Sales

[akirby]

[silvrsvt]

Link is broken

 

[jpd80]

https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North America/US/2021/12/02/ford-sales-21-november.pdf
 

 

So glad that Mach E sales recovered to 4,294

 

F Series total sales down to 53,069, a consequence of the strike action?

Edited December 5, 2023 by jpd80

[Oac98]

32 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North America/US/2021/12/02/ford-sales-21-november.pdf
 

 

So glad that Mach E sales recovered to 4,294

 

F Series total sales down to 53,069, a consequence of the strike action?

The strike at Kentucky Truck Plant had to have an effect on the sales figures one would assume. They were down for at least 2 weeks I believe. 

[Rick73]

Additional information from The Detroit News article.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2023/12/04/ford-sales-down-november-ev-sales-record/71799390007/
 

 

Maverick hybrid up 252% over last year.

 

F-150 hybrid up 36%.
 

“Although F-Series trucks were down 3.8% year-over-year, sales of the electric F-150 Lightning rose 113% to a record monthly and year-to-date high. The F-150 Hybrid's sales were up 36%. Together, they made up a quarter of F-150 sales.”

[rmc523]

I'll add my red/green charts to this soon.

[slemke]

9 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Additional information from The Detroit News article.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2023/12/04/ford-sales-down-november-ev-sales-record/71799390007/
 

 

Maverick hybrid up 252% over last year.

 

F-150 hybrid up 36%.
 

“Although F-Series trucks were down 3.8% year-over-year, sales of the electric F-150 Lightning rose 113% to a record monthly and year-to-date high. The F-150 Hybrid's sales were up 36%. Together, they made up a quarter of F-150 sales.”

F150 Hybrid sales still need to pick up the pace to meet Ford’s 2x target for ‘24.  The ‘23s have a ~$1900 discount on the hybrid option, making it virtually no cost compared to the 3.5eb.  Same with the ‘24.  Propower has been made standard on the upper trims.

 

Not sure if the pricing on Ford’s build and price website is accurate, but it was cheaper to get a hybrid with 7.2kw propower than it was a 5.0 with locking differential the last time I looked.

[rmc523]

[jpd80]

11 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Additional information from The Detroit News article.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2023/12/04/ford-sales-down-november-ev-sales-record/71799390007/
 

 

Maverick hybrid up 252% over last year.

 

F-150 hybrid up 36%.
 

“Although F-Series trucks were down 3.8% year-over-year, sales of the electric F-150 Lightning rose 113% to a record monthly and year-to-date high. The F-150 Hybrid's sales were up 36%. Together, they made up a quarter of F-150 sales.”

A bit of knowledge helps here, most of the lost sales are Super Duty and due to strike at Kentucky Truck. Roughly, down about 13,000 SDs.

By my estimate, there’s about 46,000 F150 sales so a quarter of that is about 11,500, so less 4,400 Lightning is about 7,000 hybrids. 
A rough thumbnail of figures but enough info to give some idea…..

[Rick73]

7 hours ago, jpd80 said:

A bit of knowledge helps here, most of the lost sales are Super Duty and due to strike at Kentucky Truck. Roughly, down about 13,000 SDs.

By my estimate, there’s about 46,000 F150 sales so a quarter of that is about 11,500, so less 4,400 Lightning is about 7,000 hybrids. 
A rough thumbnail of figures but enough info to give some idea…..

Excluding Lightning, hybrids would then represent roughly 1 in 6 F-150 sales for Blue..  With or without Lightning sales factored in, that’s better than 10% mentioned by Farley a few months ago when he stated plans to increase hybrid sales over next few years.

 

CNBC article below states Ford wants to increase F-150 hybrid to 20% in 2024.  It appears they are already well under way if your 7,000 estimate is close to right.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/12/ford-to-double-f-150-hybrid-pickup-production-ev-sales-growth-slows.html

 

 

More recent article suggests “Ford’s strong hybrid sales show the company needs to pivot to increase profits”.

[silvrsvt]

4 hours ago, Rick73 said:

More recent article suggests “Ford’s strong hybrid sales show the company needs to pivot to increase profits”.

 

the thing is that the powerboost option is a no cost one on the F-150 now..which should helps sales, but don't think it will do much to increase profits. 

[rperez817]

12 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

the thing is that the powerboost option is a no cost one on the F-150 now..which should helps sales, but don't think it will do much to increase profits. 

 

That's correct. Warranty claims Ford has to contend with for the P2 hybrid powertrain in that truck certainly won't help profitability. The high frequency of problems with that powertrain sank F-150 PowerBoost to the position of 3rd least reliable vehicle overall from any manufacturer in Consumer Reports' most recent survey.

 

[rmc523]

14 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

It'll be interesting to see how Ranger sales rebound whenever it finally gets out, and how Maverick is affected.

[Rick73]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

the thing is that the powerboost option is a no cost one on the F-150 now..which should helps sales, but don't think it will do much to increase profits. 

The second article was talking about hybrids in general, not just F-150 PowerBoost.  Having said that, Ford is unlikely to sell ICE/hybrid at a loss, so I’d bet “no cost” hybrid added manufacturing costs are already baked into MSRP.  Added profit would also come from selling more vehicles/volume.

[ice-capades]

The United States of F-150 

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/12/06/see-where-americans-reside-in-the-united-states-of-f-150.html

 

 

Ford F-150 is an important part of Ford F-Series, America's best-selling truck for 46 years. Here's a look at some notable states in the United States of F-150.

 

F-150 is part of F-Series, America's best-selling truck for 46 years. Utah loves that PowerBoost. Nevada loves Raptor. Idaho makes the ground shake with Tremor. Alaska goes for the max trailer tow packages. Florida buys the most 4x2s, while Vermont likes the 4x4. Whatever your needs, there’s an F-150 for you. F-Series is an American icon, and is powered by American ingenuity.

 

Our F-150s, like all of our F-Series trucks, are assembled right here in the USA. Our competitors can’t say that. F-Series creates over 500,000 jobs across America. Here's a snapshot of the United States of F-150 and what features are most popular in certain states.

Edited December 6, 2023 by ice-capades
Additional Content

[akirby]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

the thing is that the powerboost option is a no cost one on the F-150 now..which should helps sales, but don't think it will do much to increase profits. 

No cost???

 

[Rick73]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

That's correct. Warranty claims Ford has to contend with for the P2 hybrid powertrain in that truck certainly won't help profitability. The high frequency of problems with that powertrain sank F-150 PowerBoost to the position of 3rd least reliable vehicle overall from any manufacturer in Consumer Reports' most recent survey.

I’m not a fan of PowerBoost based on design itself because I personally prefer “hybrids” increase fuel economy more than power, but did not realize CR ranked it so low in fuel economy or reliability.  Edmunds found it much lower than EPA in fuel economy as well.  I know many here think F-150 sells based on power, which I understand even if it’s not something I value as much.  Either way it sounds like Ford should be working on new hybrid powertrain for F-150.

[rperez817]

10 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

Either way it sounds like Ford should be working on new hybrid powertrain for F-150.

 

Do you know if that's something in-house at Ford? Didn't Ford Blue division give up on developing all new engines or transmissions (including hybrid)?

[rperez817]

22 minutes ago, akirby said:

No cost???

 

 

Correct, no cost for MY 2024. Ford is offering a discount for PowerBoost that reduces the price so that consumers pay the same amount as for 3.5L V6 turbo without PowerBoost.

 

[akirby]

21 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

I’m not a fan of PowerBoost based on design itself because I personally prefer “hybrids” increase fuel economy more than power, but did not realize CR ranked it so low in fuel economy or reliability.  Edmunds found it much lower than EPA in fuel economy as well.  I know many here think F-150 sells based on power, which I understand even if it’s not something I value as much.  Either way it sounds like Ford should be working on new hybrid powertrain for F-150.

I doubt an existing e-CVT could handle the torque and be durable enough for actual truck duty.  Not to mention packaging issues.  The beauty of Powerboost is it maintains all functionality because it uses the same 10R tranny and most powerful engine. 
 

Ranger would be much better suited to a high mpg hybrid using the Nautilus 2.0T setup.

[akirby]

20 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Correct, no cost for MY 2024. Ford is offering a discount for PowerBoost that reduces the price so that consumers pay the same amount as for 3.5L V6 turbo without PowerBoost.

 

I was looking at the 2023 for some reason.  But it’s still an extra $290, not no cost.

[rperez817]

44 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

The United States of F-150 

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/12/06/see-where-americans-reside-in-the-united-states-of-f-150.html

 

Here's a look at some notable states in the United States of F-150.

 

F-150 is part of F-Series, America's best-selling truck for 46 years. Utah loves that PowerBoost. Nevada loves Raptor. Idaho makes the ground shake with Tremor. Alaska goes for the max trailer tow packages. Florida buys the most 4x2s, while Vermont likes the 4x4. Whatever your needs, there’s an F-150 for you. F-Series is an American icon, and is powered by American ingenuity.

 

Which states buy the most F-150 Lightnings?

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

That's correct. Warranty claims Ford has to contend with for the P2 hybrid powertrain in that truck certainly won't help profitability. The high frequency of problems with that powertrain sank F-150 PowerBoost to the position of 3rd least reliable vehicle overall from any manufacturer in Consumer Reports' most recent survey.

 

I have a very hard time believing the f-150 power boost is an unreliable vehicle, let alone one of the most unreliable vehicles on their list. Ford has a stellar reputation for hybrid reliability, and truck reliability. The maverick hybrid is one of the most reliable trucks on sale. I've never encountered anyone with an f-150 power boost who's had issues. 

 

I think it's far more likely there's an issue with how consumer reports sorts and ranks data. I've heard they give all complaints equal weight when it comes to reliability score, which is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of it's true. 100 people with a laggy infotainment system is world's apart from 100 people who've had to replace the engine on a brand new vehicle. I think consumer reports needs to assign higher weights to more critical issues, as well as create an index of problems reported based on total number of vehicles produced. That seems to be yet another area where they're lacking. 

 

If you receive 1,000 complaints for a Camry or f-150 across millions of units, that's drastically different than receiving 1,000 complaints on a car that sold 10,000 units. But it would seem consumer reports just says "Both products have 1,000 complaints, therefore, they're comparable in terms of reliability". I don't pay for their subscription, maybe it does discuss this for payed members. But if it doesn't, that just proves how incredibly dumb the people who run CR are. 

[rperez817]

9 minutes ago, akirby said:

I was looking at the 2023 for some reason.  But it’s still an extra $290, not no cost.

 

Maybe silvrsvt was comparing cost of 3.5L V6 turbo engine with and without PowerBoost?

[rperez817]

9 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Ford has a stellar reputation for hybrid reliability, and truck reliability. The maverick hybrid is one of the most reliable trucks on sale.

 

The power-split hybrid powertrain in Maverick, Escape, and Corsair, which is based on the Aisin design Ford used in the original Escape Hybrid, has good reliability (average or better).

 

That system is completely different from the P2 hybrid powertrain in F-150 PowerBoost, Explorer Hybrid, and Aviator Grand Touring that's based on Ford's problem plagued 10R transmission (much worse than average).