Chrisgb Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 17 hours ago, DeluxeStang said: . A young person buys a Corvette because they want others to think they're successful, an older person buys a Corvette because they want a Corvette. ...and hopes no one is watching them as the get in or get out... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisgb Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Leasing isn't as attractive as it was 25 years ago, when mfr's were pouring on heavy subsidies. Then, it made sense to lease a new Focus for $249/mo 24 mo lease vs buying at $249/ mo 72 mo. Lease payments were relatively stable and, depending on the timing and model you could keep your payments virtually the same and keep sliding new vehicles under it. I did this with my '97 Escort, '99 Cougar Base, and 2000 Focus ('01 30mo) The classic argument against leasing is, you don't own anything. But who owns a financed car? These days leases aren'r subvened to the degree they once were, and so the lowball lease payment is advertised with "$XXXX due at signing." But I've shifted strategy since retirement, choosing to hang on to my 2009 Mercury Mariner (Mercury will come back, you just wait!), and my 2021 Ranger, which I plan to drive "to the Moon" (~245,000mi). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, Chrisgb said: ...and hopes no one is watching them as the get in or get out... https://youtu.be/-tE_ulEZ3xU?si=8eiqmZgUA7iMWPey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 4 hours ago, akirby said: Looking at a $60k f150 the difference is $250/month for a 36 mo lease vs 60 month finance. plus there are differences in tax and interest that aren’t included. Sometimes mfrs offer lease subsidies that lower payments. It really comes down to 2 types of people - those who only care about monthly payments and those who just want something different every 2-3 years. Some people get bored with their vehicles. Interesting, the sources I was looking at weren't showing a massive difference in average monthly costs between leasing and monthly payments, but it's gonna differ vehicle by vehicle of course. On the topic of people getting bored with their vehicles, it makes sense to me why said people would try out a wide variety of products in rapid succession. But if leasing caters to people who want to keep trying something new, that just confuses me as to why so many of the people I know personally who lease elect to keep leasing the same types of vehicles from the same brands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 4 hours ago, akirby said: Looking at a $60k f150 the difference is $250/month for a 36 mo lease vs 60 month finance. plus there are differences in tax and interest that aren’t included. Sometimes mfrs offer lease subsidies that lower payments. It really comes down to 2 types of people - those who only care about monthly payments and those who just want something different every 2-3 years. Some people get bored with their vehicles. A few people I know lease because they perceive the entire process involves less haggling over price. Funny how people think differently because I’ve never leased mainly because I don’t want to be subject to dealer’s discretion of what they may think is normal wear. I prefer to buy new and keep a long time. Regarding lower ownership costs, if that’s a major goal, buying a lightly used and well taken care of 3~4 year-old car (or older) and then keeping for long time is hard to beat. I know a family that bought a used like-new Honda with less than 50,000 miles for about 1/3 the cost of a new similar vehicle. Car looks dated but 10 years later still looks and runs great. Cars today parked in garages hold up very well for a long time. Buyers who only want affordable transportation can get great deals if patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 I leased a lot back when I was working. I was in Natural Resource management and spent a great deal of time in the woods. I'd lease a 4x4 Ranger for two years, then get a new one. I was reimbursed by my employer for the miles I drove, which would pretty much cover monthly payments. Plus I also had a truck for personal use. This worked well. I did this until I retired. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 7 hours ago, Gurgeh said: In terms of the economics of car ownership, the bold comment only works with the initial lease, because at the end of the lease you are left with nothing to help finance your next vehicle after 3 years or so. Those who think that leasing magically makes cars that are unaffordable to them magically affordable, well, there's that bridge in Brooklyn they can also probably afford if they just lease it. I think what you’re saying is you would eventually build up some equity even if you purchase and trade every 3 years which would reduce the payments on purchasing but that depends on the vehicle and your down payment and loan length. Most people have higher payments and never get much equity. Of course only looking at payments is a terrible way to make purchasing decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 4 hours ago, DeluxeStang said: Interesting, the sources I was looking at weren't showing a massive difference in average monthly costs between leasing and monthly payments, but it's gonna differ vehicle by vehicle of course. On the topic of people getting bored with their vehicles, it makes sense to me why said people would try out a wide variety of products in rapid succession. But if leasing caters to people who want to keep trying something new, that just confuses me as to why so many of the people I know personally who lease elect to keep leasing the same types of vehicles from the same brands. Some of those advertised purchase payments are for 84 month loans which isn’t realistic. I adjusted to 60 months. People who lease the same thing over and over just like having a new vehicle under factory warranty. No surprise repair bills especially for folks on fixed incomes (retired and otherwise). Edited January 1 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 27 minutes ago, akirby said: I think what you’re saying is you would eventually build up some equity even if you purchase and trade every 3 years which would reduce the payments on purchasing but that depends on the vehicle and your down payment and loan length. Most people have higher payments and never get much equity. Of course only looking at payments is a terrible way to make purchasing decisions. I see your point. I was thinking about my own situation, because I hate debt and do everything I can to avoid monthly payments. It has been ages since I've financed a vehicle. In recent years I've either bought it outright (often trading in my previous purchase) or leasing with an up-front one-payment lease. Those were the comparisons I was thinking of, but obviously it isn't what most folks do when buying (or leasing) a car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 27 minutes ago, Gurgeh said: I see your point. I was thinking about my own situation, because I hate debt and do everything I can to avoid monthly payments. It has been ages since I've financed a vehicle. In recent years I've either bought it outright (often trading in my previous purchase) or leasing with an up-front one-payment lease. Those were the comparisons I was thinking of, but obviously it isn't what most folks do when buying (or leasing) a car. You and I are not the typical leaseee. I considered it once just as a way to keep payments low with the intent to buy out the lease and finance it for another 4-5 years but decided to just purchase. Now that we’re ready to retire I plan to keep our 22 Nautilus at least 10-12 years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 I’m on the verge of purchasing my second lease at the end of the term and that’s solely from a monthly payment standpoint. I can’t afford a massive down payment on something new to get anything remotely close to a payment that would fit in my budget. Even leasing something new would stretch things very thin, not to mention leasing an Edge (which is the best case scenario right now payment wise) is kind of dumb because it doesn’t really offer anything I don’t already get out of my Flex. I’m well aware I’m probably paying more for both cars than what I would have if I financed from the get go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 19 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I’m on the verge of purchasing my second lease at the end of the term and that’s solely from a monthly payment standpoint. I can’t afford a massive down payment on something new to get anything remotely close to a payment that would fit in my budget. Even leasing something new would stretch things very thin, not to mention leasing an Edge (which is the best case scenario right now payment wise) is kind of dumb because it doesn’t really offer anything I don’t already get out of my Flex. I’m well aware I’m probably paying more for both cars than what I would have if I financed from the get go. The trick is to buy less expensive vehicles (new or gently used) and keep them long enough to pay them off so you have equity towards the next one. Shortening the loan term and/or paying more down speeds it up. But I understand your position - I did the same thing when I was younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 hours ago, akirby said: People who lease the same thing over and over just like having a new vehicle under factory warranty. No surprise repair bills especially for folks on fixed incomes (retired and otherwise). This is exactly what my dad did before he died. He didn't want to be worrying about a repair bill. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, akirby said: You and I are not the typical leaseee. I considered it once just as a way to keep payments low with the intent to buy out the lease and finance it for another 4-5 years but decided to just purchase. Now that we’re ready to retire I plan to keep our 22 Nautilus at least 10-12 years. We usually keep our cars at least 10 years. Actually, 12-14 years is my preference. I’ve never leased a car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 3 hours ago, akirby said: The trick is to buy less expensive vehicles (new or gently used) and keep them long enough to pay them off so you have equity towards the next one. Shortening the loan term and/or paying more down speeds it up. But I understand your position - I did the same thing when I was younger. My wife suggested a used F-150 but between the inflated values on the used market and the fact that so many trucks are driven hard I don’t necessarily trust a used truck to last as long as I want it to. I’m hoping whatever I get next is the last brand new vehicle I ever buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 53 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: My wife suggested a used F-150 but between the inflated values on the used market and the fact that so many trucks are driven hard I don’t necessarily trust a used truck to last as long as I want it to. I’m hoping whatever I get next is the last brand new vehicle I ever buy. Buy something you can keep at least 8 years and not need to trade for something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I’m hoping whatever I get next is the last brand new vehicle I ever buy. Your not that old, are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 8 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Your not that old, are you? I think he meant he plans to buy used not new going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 BTW I still bought new vehicles every 5-7 years over the last 20 years - I just stopped trying to rationalize it to myself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 11 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Your not that old, are you? No but whatever I do buy next I plan on driving as long as I possibly can. I don’t like the direction technology is going in cars. Call me crazy or conspiratorial if you want but I see too much potential, even today, for big brother intervention. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said: No but whatever I do buy next I plan on driving as long as I possibly can. I don’t like the direction technology is going in cars. Call me crazy or conspiratorial if you want but I see too much potential, even today, for big brother intervention. Agree 100% that there is valid reason to be apprehensive. If nothing else, I don’t like idea that you can “own” a car but don’t really own it 100% because manufacturer can still make changes. Most will argue that we shouldn’t care if they “upgrade” the car, but it’s the principle that worries me, and the abuse that will undoubtedly follow. Where I will draw the line in future is on steering by wire with no physical override. As example, a Tesla 3 can steer itself to a degree but with added force to steering wheel driver can overcome computerized direction. I believe it’s still not legal, but manufacturers like Tesla want to eliminate steering column and mechanical connection altogether. They will argue it will save more lives long-term, but I’ll take my own chances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 On 12/31/2023 at 11:50 PM, DeluxeStang said: Exactly, it is cheaper, but out of curiosity, I looked up the average monthly payment, compared to the average lease payment, it's only about a $60 difference per month. In this economy, that's not very substantial imo. Valid point about some consumers wanting to swap out new cars every few years. I'm surprised some people have this mentality of using up cars, and swapping them out like crazy. Maybe it's my inner old man starting to emerge, but I'd much rather hold onto a car for as long as possible, and just take care of it. I sort of view the idea of swapping cars out quickly as a habit rooted in the past. Cars in decades past were far more problem prone, and we generally saw significantly shorter product lifecycles. For instance, if you leased a '65 mustang and came back in three years time, you had a mostly new mustang to experience while avoiding the repairs lurking just around the corner. These days, a three year old mustang should still run flawlessly unless it's been absolutely abused to no end, and the car you're swapping it out for is fairly comparable to what you already had. I knew people who would keep leasing challengers and Tacomas, stuck in this cycle of never ending payments while essentially driving the same car. It certainly made me question their intelligence. Not sure what terms you're comparing, but there's not a chance typical leases/purchase terms are that close. Recently someone I know was looking for a car, and the best lease terms that were out there were around $500 for the car - the same vehicle financed was $900. Also, the dealers were saying that Corollas were going for $400-500 a month leasing.....Corollas.....Priuses were $600+....... On 1/1/2024 at 11:52 AM, Rick73 said: A few people I know lease because they perceive the entire process involves less haggling over price. Funny how people think differently because I’ve never leased mainly because I don’t want to be subject to dealer’s discretion of what they may think is normal wear. I prefer to buy new and keep a long time. Regarding lower ownership costs, if that’s a major goal, buying a lightly used and well taken care of 3~4 year-old car (or older) and then keeping for long time is hard to beat. I know a family that bought a used like-new Honda with less than 50,000 miles for about 1/3 the cost of a new similar vehicle. Car looks dated but 10 years later still looks and runs great. Cars today parked in garages hold up very well for a long time. Buyers who only want affordable transportation can get great deals if patient. You can negotiate on a lease too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: You can negotiate on a lease too. People dont understand when you lease you are actually purchasing the vehicle for a specific price. It’s just an alternate way to finance it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I wonder if they are going for the historic record of the most recalls too... https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/03/cars/ford-f150-pickup-recall/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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