Gurgeh Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 10 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said: The only reason the Edge is selling so well is because it’s on its way out and we will be done building them soon. Maybe dealers are just stocking up on them knowing they will be obselete soon. We all know Edge Nautilus would’ve done just fine if they had made them Hybrid and redesigned them here. EV is the future, right? Exactly. I still remember the sudden surge of MKT sales in its final few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 The Edge also has a lot of incentives on it, so people looking for more value are buying Edges and Escapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 16 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said: Jim Farley sees no use for the commodity Edge. Thankfully Ford sees the value of continuing Nautilus albeit an import. I just don’t see how you can define a $38,000+ vehicle as a commodity. I feel like you haven’t done something right as manufacture if your vehicle is a commodity at that price point. If this is truly his view, I think that’s pretty ridiculous position to take that I just cannot wrap my mind around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, tbone said: I just don’t see how you can define a $38,000+ vehicle as a commodity. I feel like you haven’t done something right as manufacture if your vehicle is a commodity at that price point. If this is truly his view, I think that’s pretty ridiculous position to take that I just cannot wrap my mind around. Average cost of a new vehicle is roughly 10k more then that. everything is more expensive, like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 22 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said: The only reason the Edge is selling so well is because it’s on its way out and we will be done building them soon. Maybe dealers are just stocking up on them knowing they will be obselete soon. We all know Edge Nautilus would’ve done just fine if they had made them Hybrid and redesigned them here. EV is the future, right? Perhaps the dealers are stocking up because they need a reasonably priced vehicle to sell, and recognize there’s going to be a hole in the lineup soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 I posted this in the Ranger forum but didn’t get any feedback so I’ll post it here as well. 2024 Ford Ranger Production Increased, But None Were Sold: https://fordauthority.com/2024/03/2024-ford-ranger-production-increased-but-none-were-sold/amp/ I find this situation to be odd. This truck was supposed to go on sale last summer. As mentioned they had the strike and all, but they should have been ready to ramp up production after it was resolved, but something still seems to be wrong. Fuzzy, can you provide any insight on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, Oacjay98 said: The only reason the Edge is selling so well is because it’s on its way out and we will be done building them soon. Maybe dealers are just stocking up on them knowing they will be obselete soon. We all know Edge Nautilus would’ve done just fine if they had made them Hybrid and redesigned them here. EV is the future, right? I'm adding another one to the fleet on Saturday, passing my wife's '19 to our daughter, trading-in the '18 Escape she uses now. My wife has so enjoyed hers, I couldn't let the inventory evaporate without getting a fresh one. And honestly, the incentives in my area are no big deal. HRG 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 12 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said: I'm adding another one to the fleet on Saturday, passing my wife's '19 to our daughter, trading-in the '18 Escape she uses now. My wife has so enjoyed hers, I couldn't let the inventory evaporate without getting a fresh one. And honestly, the incentives in my area are no big deal. HRG It’s a great time to get one since you guys like the product and they’re on the way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 52 minutes ago, tbone said: Perhaps the dealers are stocking up because they need a reasonably priced vehicle to sell, and recognize there’s going to be a hole in the lineup soon. That and incentives I totally agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 59 minutes ago, tbone said: I just don’t see how you can define a $38,000+ vehicle as a commodity. I feel like you haven’t done something right as manufacture if your vehicle is a commodity at that price point. If this is truly his view, I think that’s pretty ridiculous position to take that I just cannot wrap my mind around. He just feels like there is a glut of 2 row crossovers. I can’t wrap my head around it either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, Gurgeh said: Exactly. I still remember the sudden surge of MKT sales in its final few months. We had a production uptick at the end of flex and mkt as well. They were never high volume anyways especially the mkt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: The Edge also has a lot of incentives on it, so people looking for more value are buying Edges and Escapes. That makes sense to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 9 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said: He just feels like there is a glut of 2 row crossovers. I can’t wrap my head around it either. He’s looking at Edge and Escape profit margins which I assume are much lower than desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 4 minutes ago, akirby said: He’s looking at Edge and Escape profit margins which I assume are much lower than desired. Well they better do one hell of a job on the products they’re gonna replace them with then to achieve the higher profit margins. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 On 3/6/2024 at 8:33 PM, silvrsvt said: Bronco Sales are starting to dry up, guess the gotta have its got it and with high interest rates and prices going up, demand is starting to fall. I see plenty of stock on the lots these days. As much as I hate to say it, I always thought Bronco was going to be a fad car like the two seat T-bird, PT Cruiser, the new Camaro and Toyota FJ Cruiser. Once the first wave of fans buy it, it doesn't sustain momentum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 12 hours ago, akirby said: He’s looking at Edge and Escape profit margins which I assume are much lower than desired. But isn’t that Ford all over, they squeeze the last juice out of old product, call it a commodity to kick it to the gutter and then wonder how on earth to shift 20,000 Mach Es without turning them into a commodity priced vehicle. Edited March 8 by jpd80 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 14 hours ago, Oacjay98 said: We had a production uptick at the end of flex and mkt as well. They were never high volume anyways especially the mkt. Im glad there was. My Flex was built in the final month of production. Love it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 8 hours ago, atomcat68 said: As much as I hate to say it, I always thought Bronco was going to be a fad car like the two seat T-bird, PT Cruiser, the new Camaro and Toyota FJ Cruiser. Once the first wave of fans buy it, it doesn't sustain momentum. They’re hoping it will be like the Wrangler. The problem with that is they can’t keep relying on a 10 year production cycle if they want to do that, at least not for Bronco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplorerDude Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 8 hours ago, atomcat68 said: As much as I hate to say it, I always thought Bronco was going to be a fad car like the two seat T-bird, PT Cruiser, the new Camaro and Toyota FJ Cruiser. Once the first wave of fans buy it, it doesn't sustain momentum. Bronco sales are drying up because of the ridiculous prices increases it has had since launch. Internally, some are sounding the alarm bells now going off because of the greed on raising the prices so much. When the Bronco launched the 2-door starting price was $28,995, it’s now $39,600+. Insanity! The greed doesn’t end there, they killed the Base trim levels so the starting price automatically goes up. Even though the Base trims aren’t huge volume, it’s still an attractive starting point. Especially for those who want a simple Bronco or even Bronco Sport and want to make it truly their own through lots of customizations. The Bronco Raptor came out at around $66,000 and its starting price is now $90,000+. All in less than 3 years. It’s beyond inflation or raw material prices increases. Most Ford dealers have an average Bronco stock of 15-20 units now and they are sitting. Jeep has been slashing their MSRP’s considerably. I hope we take the hint and stop this insane pricing that’s not sustainable and will kill product lines. The Maverick’s success and demand is due to its affordability. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 24 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Im glad there was. My Flex was built in the final month of production. Love it. In a way, I’m surprised that Ford didn’t follow up Flex with another cycle on say C2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 24 minutes ago, ExplorerDude said: Bronco sales are drying up because of the ridiculous prices increases it has had since launch. Internally, some are sounding the alarm bells now going off because of the greed on raising the prices so much. When the Bronco launched the 2-door starting price was $28,995, it’s now $39,600+. Insanity! The greed doesn’t end there, they killed the Base trim levels so the starting price automatically goes up. Even though the Base trims aren’t huge volume, it’s still an attractive starting point. Especially for those who want a simple Bronco or even Bronco Sport and want to make it truly their own through lots of customizations. The Bronco Raptor came out at around $66,000 and its starting price is now $90,000+. All in less than 3 years. It’s beyond inflation or raw material prices increases. Most Ford dealers have an average Bronco stock of 15-20 units now and they are sitting. Jeep has been slashing their MSRP’s considerably. I hope we take the hint and stop this insane pricing that’s not sustainable and will kill product lines. The Maverick’s success and demand is due to its affordability. The answer to almost everything sales related is price. As prices go up sales go down because the number of potential buyers at each price level drops. I don’t blame them for raising prices initially when dealers were getting $10k - $20k ADMs plus inflation. But it’s time to make adjustments and find the sweet spot between profit and volume. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 2 hours ago, jpd80 said: But isn’t that Ford all over, they squeeze the last juice out of old product, call it a commodity to kick it to the gutter and then wonder how on earth to shift 20,000 Mach Es without turning them into a commodity priced vehicle. Thats what everybody says but I don’t think that’s what happens. I think you have a product with low margins from the get go because of high platform costs and not enough commonality. Even when new like the 2013 Fusion. They realize that even if they throw big money at refreshes and redesigns it will generate sales but still won’t generate a favorable ROI so they milk it until they find something better. Had Ford introduced C2 back in 2012 and used it for Escape, Fusion and Edge globally with hybrids I think the outcome would be different and they would have built a new plant for Maverick and Bronco Sport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 17 minutes ago, akirby said: But it’s time to make adjustments and find the sweet spot between profit and volume. They’ve backed themselves into a corner now though. For years since Jim Farley took over they’ve constantly bragged about their 10 percent (or close to it) margins and every move they’ve made has been in an attempt to increase stock prices. Start dropping prices now and Wall Street is going to be very unhappy with that. It’s going to be interesting to see how they navigate through this. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 minute ago, fuzzymoomoo said: They’ve backed themselves into a corner now though. For years since Jim Farley took over they’ve constantly bragged about their 10 percent (or close to it) margins and every move they’ve made has been in an attempt to increase stock prices. Start dropping prices now and Wall Street is going to be very unhappy with that. It’s going to be interesting to see how they navigate through this. They have to keep volume at a certain level or overhead gets too high. They should have room for lower prices and still maintain high margins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 7 minutes ago, akirby said: They have to keep volume at a certain level or overhead gets too high. They should have room for lower prices and still maintain high margins. Exactly so but Ford has this pretentious attitude of perpetually trying raise prices but undone by quality issues If there was no Lincoln brand, Ford could lift its ceiling but the Lincoln’s stop that (Mulally’s issue with keeping it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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