Focus and fiesta may return as affordable evs

[DeluxeStang]

https://electrek.co/2024/07/30/fords-new-ev-platform-spawn-electric-fiesta-focus-models/

 

I don't buy it personally, it doesn't align with Ford's strategy. On the off chance they do decide to bring back some sort of hatch, I'd much rather see some sort of 90s escort revival with retro cyberpunk like styling than some blob on wheels. 

 

I do feel like the next 5-10 years are gonna be very exciting for Ford fans who want something different, I'll say that much. It sounds like CE1 is basically a "Can unpin almost any type of vehicle" platform. So who knows, there may be some surprises in the cards. 

 

 

[Oac98]

11 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

https://electrek.co/2024/07/30/fords-new-ev-platform-spawn-electric-fiesta-focus-models/

 

I don't buy it personally, it doesn't align with Ford's strategy. On the off chance they do decide to bring back some sort of hatch, I'd much rather see some sort of 90s escort revival with retro cyberpunk like styling than some blob on wheels. 

 

I do feel like the next 5-10 years are gonna be very exciting for Ford fans who want something different, I'll say that much. It sounds like CE1 is basically a "Can unpin almost any type of vehicle" platform. So who knows, there may be some surprises in the cards. 

 

 

In my opinion the focus and fiesta should’ve never been cancelled in the first place. I know about the transmission fiasco but the European Focus is a nice vehicle. If they come back in EV form I think Ford is coming to their senses abit.

[tbone]

5 minutes ago, Oac98 said:

In my opinion the focus and fiesta should’ve never been cancelled in the first place. I know about the transmission fiasco but the European Focus is a nice vehicle. If they come back in EV form I think Ford is coming to their senses abit.

Typically I would agree on retaining existing model names, but regarding the Focus, I’m concerned Ford has severely tarnished that nameplate. That was a damn travesty that could have been avoided, and my guess is no heads rolled for that decision.  

[akirby]

25 minutes ago, Oac98 said:

In my opinion the focus and fiesta should’ve never been cancelled in the first place. I know about the transmission fiasco but the European Focus is a nice vehicle. If they come back in EV form I think Ford is coming to their senses abit.

Focus was killed to make room for Bronco and Ranger

[Oac98]

7 minutes ago, akirby said:

Focus was killed to make room for Bronco and Ranger

Yes it was, I’m talking about global markets excluding North America moreso Europe. 

[Oac98]

27 minutes ago, tbone said:

Typically I would agree on retaining existing model names, but regarding the Focus, I’m concerned Ford has severely tarnished that nameplate. That was a damn travesty that could have been avoided, and my guess is no heads rolled for that decision.  

It was a travesty and I heard workers at the plant addressed there concerns to Ford but it was supposedly too late. Ford proceeded to knowingly launch new products with known major issues. 

[DeluxeStang]

55 minutes ago, tbone said:

Typically I would agree on retaining existing model names, but regarding the Focus, I’m concerned Ford has severely tarnished that nameplate. That was a damn travesty that could have been avoided, and my guess is no heads rolled for that decision.  

Which is why a name like escort makes more sense. It has a sportier, more aspirational lineage to draw from, which aligns with Ford's strategy of making differentiated products. Maybe they could lift it slightly and call it a crossover.

 

 

[morgan20]

24 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Which is why a name like escort makes more sense. It has a sportier, more aspirational lineage to draw from, which aligns with Ford's strategy of making differentiated products.

 

The only aspirational Ford Escorts were the 1968-1980 1st and 2nd gen RWD RS models and the 1993-1998 RS Cosworth AWD in Europe. Beyond that, to most people there's nothing sporty or aspirational about a Ford Escort

[AM222]

6 hours ago, Oac98 said:

Yes it was, I’m talking about global markets excluding North America moreso Europe. 

For global markets, Powershift killed the Focus (like the Fiesta), even when some rest-of-the-world markets got the 1.5 EB with a torque converter automatic during its refresh, they didn't trust the model anymore. The current Mk4 Focus is mainly for Europe, China, and Taiwan. 

In Europe, the current (and last) Focus Mk4 is just not that competitive anymore. It's an expensive car with cost-cutting. From interior trim to downgrading to a Fiesta-style rear twist beam suspension as standard, while the independent multi-link suspension is reserved for more powerful high-spec models.

The top 15 best-selling cars in Europe for the first half of 2024. 

Best-selling cars in Europe January-June 2024

1. Dacia Sandero, 143,596 (+16%)

2. Volkswagen Golf, 126,993 (+43%)

3. Renault Clio, 114,623 (+15%)

4. Volkswagen T-Roc, 111,381 (0%)

5. Peugeot 208, 107,097 (+1%)

6. Skoda Octavia, 102,945 (+25%)

7. Citroen C3, 102,304 (+50%)

8. Tesla Model Y, 101,181 (-26%)

9. Toyota Yaris Cross, 99,694 (+3%)

10. Toyota Yaris, 93,576 (+10%)

11. Peugeot 2008, 93,436 (+11%)

12. Dacia Duster, 89,435 (+3%)

13. Kia Sportage, 87,164 (+13%)

14. Opel/Vauxhall Corsa, 87,102 ( -18%)

15. Ford Puma, 83,972 (+9%)

The Focus and Fiesta used to always be in the top 3, and you'd have several other Fords in the top 15. The Focus has dropped way down the list, and the Fiesta has been discontinued. The best-selling Ford is at 15th place and it's the only Ford model in the top 25.

The top 5 is made up of 4 cars and 1 crossover (VW T-Roc in 4th). Ford has lost a lot of ground by exiting this segment. About EVs... the Tesla Model Y is not in the top 3, infact it's now ranked 8th. EV growth in Europe has also slowed down and Ford is killing its affordable ICE models. First the Fiesta, and soon the Focus. Interestingly, the competitors of the Fiesta and Focus are selling well.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2024 by AM222

[akirby]

Focus did swap the DCT for a traditional 6F tranny in Europe at some point (2015?) but refused to do it here for some reason.

 

The problem with Europe has always been high costs due to massive inefficiencies.

[morgan20]

14 minutes ago, akirby said:

The problem with Europe has always been high costs due to massive inefficiencies.

 

That's a Ford problem, not just a Europe problem. If Ford can fix this throughout the company, introducing a low cost Focus EV or Fiesta EV may be a possibility. Otherwise forget about it, Europe or anywhere else

[Andrew L]

27 minutes ago, akirby said:

Focus did swap the DCT for a traditional 6F tranny in Europe at some point (2015?) but refused to do it here for some reason.

 

The problem with Europe has always been high costs due to massive inefficiencies.

 

I could be wrong but from what I understand the wet clutch version of the DCT in Europe is far more reliable too and we never got that version here either only the unreliable dry clutch version.

[akirby]

47 minutes ago, morgan20 said:

 

That's a Ford problem, not just a Europe problem. If Ford can fix this throughout the company, introducing a low cost Focus EV or Fiesta EV may be a possibility. Otherwise forget about it, Europe or anywhere else

Agreed.  It’s just magnified in Europe because there is no F150 to offset it.

[akirby]

38 minutes ago, Andrew L said:

 

I could be wrong but from what I understand the wet clutch version of the DCT in Europe is far more reliable too and we never got that version here either only the unreliable dry clutch version.

Thats true.  But it’s not reliability per se it’s torque capacity.  The dry clutch would have been ok with a smaller engine.  My point was they switched euro focus to the 6F there but refused to do it here for some unknown reason although obviously it was cost related.

[AM222]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

Focus did swap the DCT for a traditional 6F tranny in Europe at some point (2015?) but refused to do it here for some reason.

 

The problem with Europe has always been high costs due to massive inefficiencies.

Ford stuck with the 2.0 Duratec in North America, while most other markets like Europe and Asia adopted EcoBoost engines with the torque converter automatic.

Edited August 1, 2024 by AM222

[akirby]

12 minutes ago, AM222 said:

Ford stuck with the 2.0 Duratec in North America, while most other markets like Europe and Asia adopted EcoBoost engines with the torque converter automatic.

Exactly.  They could have switched the NA model to a 6F15 or 6F35 at the same time but chose to stick with the already failed DCT.

[Harley Lover]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

refused to do it here for some unknown reason although obviously it was cost related.

 

Didn't they also have a supply contract with an outside firm (ZF?) for which they were obligated to take x amount of trannys for x amount of years?

[akirby]

57 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Didn't they also have a supply contract with an outside firm (ZF?) for which they were obligated to take x amount of trannys for x amount of years?

Probably.  Or some other contractual obligation.  Which just highlights the poor planning to get locked into something that bad.

[jpd80]

4 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Didn't they also have a supply contract with an outside firm (ZF?) for which they were obligated to take x amount of trannys for x amount of years?

Getrag. The funny thing is the later wet clutch 7-speed DCT has worked out fine.

And agree with everything about 6F trans in Focus, absolutely transformed the car 

but was too late here in Australia as the damage was already done….

[T-dubz]

When was the last time ford came up with an original name? Was it the fusion? I don’t necessarily mind them using the focus, fiesta or escort names. When I hear any of those, I think affordable. If that’s the message they are trying to relay, then they seem to be a good fit. I’d prefer ford to come up with new names though. 

[DeluxeStang]

16 hours ago, morgan20 said:

 

The only aspirational Ford Escorts were the 1968-1980 1st and 2nd gen RWD RS models and the 1993-1998 RS Cosworth AWD in Europe. Beyond that, to most people there's nothing sporty or aspirational about a Ford Escort

It's more aspirational than a focus. I'm talking about reviving the escort with inspirations from the 90s cosworth version. That would tie right into the 80s/90s nostalgia right now. 

[Sherminator98]

3 hours ago, T-dubz said:

When was the last time ford came up with an original name? Was it the fusion? I don’t necessarily mind them using the focus, fiesta or escort names. When I hear any of those, I think affordable. If that’s the message they are trying to relay, then they seem to be a good fit. I’d prefer ford to come up with new names though. 

 

 

Going back say 25-30 years-

Contour

Escape

Expedition

Excursion

Fusion

Aero/Wind/Freestar

Five Hundred

Other names where recycled nameplates or trim names like the Edge or Ranger (going back to the 1980s)

[akirby]

Remember when Ford was going to kill Taurus and keep the Five hundred?  Mulally said are you insane throwing away such a recognizable name for an anonymous number?  So they kept Taurus.

 

It takes a long time to build up name recognition so you have to take that into account although sometimes a new name is better.

[Sherminator98]

10 minutes ago, akirby said:

Remember when Ford was going to kill Taurus and keep the Five hundred?  Mulally said are you insane throwing away such a recognizable name for an anonymous number?  So they kept Taurus.

 

It takes a long time to build up name recognition so you have to take that into account although sometimes a new name is better.

 

Well if you really want to be technical about it, the Taurus did technically "die" because it went from a "midsized" sedan to a full sized one. But the 1986-2007 Taurus was always a larger midsized car over its competition and IIRC my history, it was technically supposed to be a full sized replacement for the Crown Vic when it launched. 

 

You had the Tempo, Contour and Fusion slotted under it and the Fusion finally got the "midsized sedan" packaging right vs being compacts in the case of the Tempo (stretched Escort) and Contour, which was a bit small for NA tastes. 

[SilverStangO1]

Interesting comments in thread.

 

I had 2005 Focus with manual transmission. Stripper S model, steel wheels and AC as the only option. Cheap purchase, cheap interior. Great over all product. No mechanical issues of any kind through 110k when I sold it. Great MPG.

 

Fast forward a bit.

 

Got a 2012 focus sel auto. The entire packaging of the car was nice, much better interior. Handling better than 05 by miles. Good MPG, not great. DCT was absolutely terrible in suburban/Metro traffic under 5 mph during daily commute. Maddening shutter at low speeds in most situations. Many reflashes, TSBs, repairs and complete replacement at one point. Ultimately it became clear that there was not a workable solution from Ford on the matter. The rest of the car was pretty much solid with only a recall/repair or two.

 

Subsequently bought (trading in POS DCT focus) a 2014 fusion SE with 2.0 Ecoboost. Immediately loved having a crisp transmission and more power. This particular vehicle is nearing 200k.

 

Have recently been considering buying a used 16-18 focus st to have as fun, reliable side car with a nice 6spd manual trans. RS too pricey for consideration.

 

Issue at hand: Focus is a good name plate and was a revolutionary car for the world masses in various forms in the last two decades. DCT in NA was a disaster and I hope lessons were learned. I think Focus is better name than Escort. Note: I may be biased due to first hand experience with the eye horror that is mid 80s escorts.

 

I would certainly consider an ICE, EV or Hybrid offering with the Focus name. I think millions would as well. 

 

I think it's a mistake for Ford to abandon this small car segment entirely. Though I'd also like to say the same for another fusion/sedan segment new vehicle, the business case favors the former.

 

I think Ford has to be able to produce a small, profitable world car that sells well. In fact, I'd consider it a business imperative at this point. The market is more competitive than ever. Ford can do it and do it well.

 

P.S. Thanks for listening to the focus tales from a long time lurker.