MGallun Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 (edited) How much quality time have you spent with the competition? (Accord, Altima, etc.) I've phisically compared them all meticulously and the Fusion's mediocrity stands out every single time. On the track there's no contest and I'm not surprised the Fusion needs 1k+ baby wheels to outhandle an ancient Honda. Fusion is only getting conquests from people leaving such shitty cars like the Sonata, G6, etc. Accord owners would've a hard time finding a reason to downgrade from their half a decade old car to a brand new Fusion. That's what happens when you actually do your homework and release something that's not mediocre. The market has rewarded Honda accordingly, no pun intended, ditto with the Altima. again, all opinnions... Edited March 16, 2007 by MGallun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 fusion is only mediocre to people who dont own one or havent driven one... Mediocre means Ordinary, WHICH IS WHAT THE FUSION IS. IT LEADS IN NOTHING! NOTHING! NOTHING! So yes it is mediocre which means inferior to the best but not bad and that is what the fusion is MEDIOCRE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Mediocre means Ordinary, WHICH IS WHAT THE FUSION IS. IT LEADS IN NOTHING! NOTHING! NOTHING! So yes it is mediocre which means inferior to the best but not bad and that is what the fusion is MEDIOCRE! then what does that make the Accord? and their new model looks dare i say Hyundai-ish...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Mediocre means Ordinary, WHICH IS WHAT THE FUSION IS. IT LEADS IN NOTHING! NOTHING! NOTHING! So yes it is mediocre which means inferior to the best but not bad and that is what the fusion is MEDIOCRE! Okay. I think you're twisting these definitions 1. of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate. 2. rather poor or inferior. into saying the Fusion is a piece of shit. Is it better to play the average game, or is it better to be like Chrysler and have great power but absolute shit interiors? Or how about Toyota - bland as fuck ugly styling. What do you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 No one is spinning anything, the Fusion musketeers here are just a little too sensitive to factual terms. I think we just want a car that's genuinely on par or above this gen of players. It's really sad when your brand new car still loses to a half a decade old Honda because you didn't do your homework properly. Ford needs to make an impact and impress the public enough to make the switch; nothing short of raising the bar or being the class leader will do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Ford needs to make an impact and impress the public enough to make the switch; nothing short of raising the bar or being the class leader will do it. But will it really? Just having the Ford badge on it will make it inferior in most peoples eyes anyways...and thats already been proven by the Fusion...I can't find the damn article, but people rated the Fusion san Ford badges better when it was compared to the Accord and Camry, but once they where told it was a Ford, they rated the Accord and Camry better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Rules Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 For all of you guys being so concerned with the Fusion being class-leading, have you conveniently forgotten about its Consumer Reports reliability scores. The only V6 it lost to was the Accord Hybrid and it beat out all versions of the Camry. That's incredibly impressive for its first year and it will only get better. I will admit that I have not driven the Fusion or any of its competitors, so I'm not going to jump to any other conclusions until I see them for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 But will it really? Just having the Ford badge on it will make it inferior in most peoples eyes anyways So that's an excuse to just throw in the towel? That image is never going to change as long as they keep releasing MEDIOCRE products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 You might as well give up. Telling people on this board that Ford's latest products are mediocre is like talking to the wall......and you get a better response out of the wall to boot. Same goes for people who insistently bash Ford products here also... The truth is somewhere in the middle of the two camps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Same goes for people who insistently bash Ford products here also... The truth is somewhere in the middle of the two camps Oh crap, that's my cue. Sorry guys. Ok, so the other night I'm having a conversation with a good buddy of mine and being that we are both car guys the conversation naturally turned to cars. Now this particular conversation took place in a parking lot, him seated in his car, me in mine. Now the difference was, his car had the flashy lights on the top and the blue oval in the grill. Mine does not. We got to discussing the ongoing problems over at Ford and I said. "Look at this car you're driving man. Why do you think so many departments choose the Crown Vic as their mainstay patrol car? It's because the damn things are durable as hell and they don't cost an arm and a leg to fix. Probably the same reason why cab companies like them." And that's the truth when it comes to Ford isn't it? You can't really make the case to me or anyone that really knows anything about cars that Fords are not reliable cars. Not these days anyway. I friend of mine had a 95 V6 Taurus and he tried his damnedest to kill that car and couldn't. It had over 150,000 miles on it and he abused it daily. It's still running to this very day with well over 200,000 miles on it. So what is it about Fords that turns people off? Why doesn't the Fusion sell as well as the Camry? It's a given that it's going to be a steadfast and reliable car for years after you purchase it. On the one hand you have the crowd that says "Hey, the car is selling at expected levels and meeting production goals so you doubters can just shut the hell up already!" On the other hand is the crowd that says "If it was such a smash hit you'd be taking the number one spot from Toyota!" Who's right? I got a feeling that if demand for the Fusion increased and we started seeing 200,000 or 300,000 a year in demand then you can bet that Ford would find a way to produce to meet that demand. I also think that while unseating Toyota is possible, it wasn't likely to happen within the first 2 or 3 years of the Fusion production life. So what is it about these cars that keeps it an "also ran" on the sedan market? I think it's a number of things really. First of all, like it or not, the design of the Fusion front end is polarizing. People either like or they hate it, there seems to be no in between. Now in Fords defense, it is a design feature that is new and innovative and makes the car stand out amidst the crowd. Sometimes thats good, and sometimes its bad. I think what happens here is you have a car where not many people want to be the first guy on his block to bring one home because of the front end looks. Others who like it won't have a problem bringing one home. So the question is, are there more people in the "like it" or "don't like it" camp? Given the sales numbers, my guess is the latter of the two. But then even I have to second guess myself about that a lot of times because you take a look at the Milan and as far as I'm concerned that's the front end headlamps the Fusion should have received. So why doesn't the Milan sell like gangbusters? I don't know. Around here I think the reason is it just doesn't occur to people to go buy a Mercury. That coupled with the fact that the last time I stopped by the local Mercury lot they had 1 Milan. Next comes the interior. Personally I don't mind the interior of the Fusion. But when I look at it compared to the Camry and Accord I understand why people might prefer those interiors. It's just a certain visually appealing quality that Toyota has mastered into how their interior is laid out as opposed to the more static interior of the Fusion. Both use the same quality materials but the Fusion seems more rigid when you sit in it. The dealerships!!! An admittedly weak link in the Ford armor that gets discussed around here regularly. How many potential customers are out there that refuse to buy a Ford because they had such a crappy experience with their local Ford dealer in the past? Personally I refuse to buy a Chevrolet from my local Chevy dealer because they are so damned crooked and high pressure that I can't stand to even drive by the place. It's so bad in fact that when the new Malibu comes out I'm going to go there and test drive one and when the drive is over I know the sales guy is going to start his "let's go talk numbers" routine at which time I'm going to say "I wouldn't buy a damn thing from this place. I just wanted to test drive the car before I go buy one at the Chevy dealer in the next town." Honestly they deserve such treatment and I'm going to do it on purpose just because of how crappy the Chevy dealer here is. How many people feel that way about their local Ford dealer? Last, I think people are worried about the future of Ford. It's not uncommon to see on the news or read in the car magazines the troubling times that Ford is having. People might be worried that if they bought if Fusion today, will there be a Ford Motor Co. still around in five years when they need repair parts? So like I said, I think it's a combination of things really. It's not that the Fusion is bad car and it's not that it's a groundbreaking car either. It's just a lot of little stuff that adds up. That's my take on it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Okay. I think you're twisting these definitions 1. of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate. 2. rather poor or inferior. into saying the Fusion is a piece of shit. Is it better to play the average game, or is it better to be like Chrysler and have great power but absolute shit interiors? Or how about Toyota - bland as fuck ugly styling. What do you want? Complete opposite. I am pointing out Mediocre means Ordinary, read my post again. It is against people who say the Fusion isn't mediocre because they think mediocre=shit. Fusion leads in 0 categories against it's competitors but it isn't complete crap, it is mediocre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
range Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Complete opposite. I am pointing out Mediocre means Ordinary, read my post again. It is against people who say the Fusion isn't mediocre because they think mediocre=shit. Fusion leads in 0 categories against it's competitors but it isn't complete crap, it is mediocre. Sorry to point this out but, The Fusion leads the Camry and Accord in Consumer Report quality. The Fusion leads Camry and Accord in JDPower APEAL. and is the highest ranked of any car in its class for satisfaction with - Performance, Style, Features and Instrument Panel, and Comfort. The Fusion leads Accord with a 6 speed transmission The Fusion leads the Camry and Accord in lack of safety recalls. The Fusion beats the Camry and Accord on price. I think you may have confused the Sebring with the Fusion. If you actually meant the Sebring, than I agree with you. Heck, that Sebring has only been out a little bit and they are already recalling it. So I guess you could say the Sebring leads in the recall category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 (edited) My parents just got a 2007 Fusion SE V6 and it is a very nice car. The handling is good even with the 16" wheels and the ride quality is great for the weight of the car. I don't see any build quality issues in this car compared to most FoMoCo products before it. Sure it is not what a lot of you want and that is a 350-400HP V8 RWD sports sedan, but for being a midsized FWD sedan with a 4 cyl and V6 it does its job just fine. I agree that it would be nice to see a larger V6 as an option, but if you have ever spent time behind the wheel of a Fusion V6 like I have you would find that it's not even close to being underpowered. Sure horsepower = bragging rights these days and when it comes to that Fusion is behind the competition. Other then the power I can't really say bad things about the Fusion. The biggest thing that Ford has to get right here is the quality and reliability. RELIABILTY will make or break this car in the marketplace. It does not matter how much horsepower the car has or what nifty features it has if the reliability is not there. If it continues the trend of being a very reliabile, well built car then it will be successful. As far as the whole mediocre argument goes, I would not call the Fusion mediocre after spending a few hours in the drivers seat. I would say it is a good car. Not a great car, but a good car. Could it be improved, yes, and I hope that Ford will make the necessary improvements to make it a great car. They have a solid base to build from they just need to polish it up a little. I guess it all comes down to the argument...is the Fusion a good value in it's class? I would say that it is. It is solid, reliable, comfortable and priced right. Are there better cars in it's class? Yes, but if those cars cost more and if AWD is an important option (for those that live in the snow belt) then the Fusion might be more bang for your buck. Edited March 18, 2007 by 2005Explorer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave9991 Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Sorry to point this out, but Accord and Camry beat the Fusion in sales. Why are you apologizing? Secondly, the Accord and Camry are working on 5th generation buyers who have bought the CamCord. Sales do not change over night, and marketshare the size of the CamCord is not created over night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Sorry to point this out but, The Fusion leads the Camry and Accord in Consumer Report quality. The Fusion leads Camry and Accord in JDPower APEAL. and is the highest ranked of any car in its class for satisfaction with - Performance, Style, Features and Instrument Panel, and Comfort. The Fusion leads Accord with a 6 speed transmission The Fusion leads the Camry and Accord in lack of safety recalls. The Fusion beats the Camry and Accord on price. I think you may have confused the Sebring with the Fusion. If you actually meant the Sebring, than I agree with you. Heck, that Sebring has only been out a little bit and they are already recalling it. So I guess you could say the Sebring leads in the recall category. Talk about not understanding a segment, since when does the segment only consist of the Accord and Camry? Not mention what you posted does even counter my argument that the Fusion leads in nothing for its segment, notice I said segment and not Camry and Accord. The first two about surveys and appeals you can scratch of because Iam not talking about those, those are not aspects of a vehicle. Same with recalls, it is fantastic that Ford is able to launch vehicles without significant recalls but still not an aspect a buyer sees on the window when they go car shopping and compare cars on the lots. And talk about grasping at straws when you selectively single out one other vehicle in the segment to compare the fusion to instead of looking at the whole segment like my post stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 For the people that slam the Fusion...I wonder how many actually spent a whole day or more behind the wheel of one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 For the people that slam the Fusion...I wonder how many actually spent a whole day or more behind the wheel of one? Pointing out facts =/= Bashing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 (edited) In Canada these prices are for loaded variants includes taxes Fusion SEL V6 $40132.56 Fusion SEL V6 AWD $42526.56 Honda EX-L V6 Navi $43502.40 Camry XLE V6 $44192.10 Mazda6 GT V6 $43861.50 Hyundai Sonata GLS V6 $35186.10 Nissan Altima 3.5 SE $45324.12 Subaru Legacy 2.5GT Spec-B $53112.60 Chevy Malibu SS $40162.20 Myself I would not pay these prices for any of these vehicles in this segment, as they are all competing in the entry luxury segment. In base trim level, the Fusion SE is very good value, but SEL trim, that's when to me the Fusion starts to appear mediocre, but then again the competition is not too exciting once in the $30,000+ range either. Ford NA is on the right track with the Fusion, but everytime I drive this car, I always come away with the perception of Ford doing an 80% effort, whereas if they just could change this attitude and go the distance and finish it up at 100%. The dynamics are there, but just too many little bits are underwhelming. Ford NA needs to realize consumer perception of quality and value is higher then they think, hence all the comments of mediocre etc. Edited March 18, 2007 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Sorry to point this out, but Accord and Camry beat the Fusion in sales. so did the altima, and they beat the fusion by a alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Oh crap, that's my cue. Sorry guys. So what is it about Fords that turns people off? Why doesn't the Fusion sell as well as the Camry? It's a given that it's going to be a steadfast and reliable car for years after you purchase it. On the one hand you have the crowd that says "Hey, the car is selling at expected levels and meeting production goals so you doubters can just shut the hell up already!" On the other hand is the crowd that says "If it was such a smash hit you'd be taking the number one spot from Toyota!" Who's right? I got a feeling that if demand for the Fusion increased and we started seeing 200,000 or 300,000 a year in demand then you can bet that Ford would find a way to produce to meet that demand. I also think that while unseating Toyota is possible, it wasn't likely to happen within the first 2 or 3 years of the Fusion production life. Last, I think people are worried about the future of Ford. It's not uncommon to see on the news or read in the car magazines the troubling times that Ford is having. People might be worried that if they bought if Fusion today, will there be a Ford Motor Co. still around in five years when they need repair parts? So like I said, I think it's a combination of things really. It's not that the Fusion is bad car and it's not that it's a groundbreaking car either. It's just a lot of little stuff that adds up. That's my take on it anyway. Well reasoned and well said BlackHorse. Camry didn't become the best seller overnight. The first few Camry models were "also rans" in the midsize car market. There were a great many people who thought Toyota build a decent small car but couldn't make a good family car. Anyone old enough to remember the Toyotas of the late '60s and '70s will recall the cheaply made interiors, tin can bodies and rust problems that ate up the bodies long before the engines would die. Toyota took the time to build a reputation for quality. They kept an eye on the long term. As people had good experiences with Toyota products that reputation grew. Ford will have to do the same. The focus needs to be on the customer and on building long term relationships. American car companies have been too concerned with having the next mega hit. The original Falcon, Mustang,Taurus and Explorer were such hits. It is the F-Series and its continuous improvement that has been carrying the company. The next Fusion should be better with more value built in. The lack of side airbags and stability control from the start were mistakes that cannot be repeated. The Fords of the future have to be class leaders. Chrysler has the same problem. The PT Cruiser was a huge hit now its dying on the vine. The 300 has no successor in sight. Has anyone seen a spy pic that is more than a new grille? As for Ford's future I am optimistic. Mulally is asking the right questions about how and why things are done at Ford. He understands the threat Toyota represents. If the mistakes of the past are identified and avoided, Ford will come back just as it has before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 For all of the people who defend the "Average" nature of the Fusion by pointing out that both the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry were also once average in the class, I would like to point out one significant difference between them and Ford. THEY WERE NOT IN DIRE FINANCIAL TROUBLE AT THE TIME.... They had the luxury of time on their side. They were able to gradually improve their products until they were class leading and highly desirable autos. Ford does not have that same luxury. They need to change public opinion NOW not ten years from now. Almost good enough is NOT WORKING and Ford now faces the real possibility of running out of money BEFORE public opinion changes in their favor. To win over people in the short amount of time necessary to save Ford requires "Class Leading" not "Class Lagging" performance and appearance. Right now almost everyone I know has the same opinion of Ford. They believe that Ford makes reliable cars and trucks. The problem is that they also believe that the Ford brand is the one that you "Settle for" if you can get a really good deal on it. If you can't get a steep discount, you go ahead and buy one of the brands that you "really wanted". Fair or not, that preception is what is killing Ford... Releasing "average" autos or ones with significant design flaws ( brakes ont the new Edge ) are NOT going to do anything to change that attitude. P.S. I have divern a V6 Fusion many times. It is an "average" car in my opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 The problem, sranger, is that what you are saying has to happen.................. RIGHT NOW................ is impossible. It took decades for Ford to get in the pickle they are in, with public perception. This cannot be corrected overnight. It can't. No matter how great the product is. They could build the most amazing car, with the best price ever seen.................. and there would still be a majority of people who would say "wow, great car............. lets see how it is doing in 5 years, then I might buy one." This does nothing to help today. I realize that the slow, steady approach is very frustrating in this day and age of instant gratification. I realize that Ford may be a bit conservative these days. I realize that the approach of looking into the future is not something that we are used to from a domestic. However, I honestly feel that this is what will ensure Fords future. To me, the Fusion is a very above average car. While it may not be the best at everything, I believe that it makes the proper compromises to allow it to appeal to people. The people just gotta come in to look at it. Great experiences from todays owners is what will create a very successful car, in the long run. Oh, and yes, the Camry is the best at one thing................. sales. Woo hoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 (edited) The problem, sranger, is that what you are saying has to happen.................. RIGHT NOW................ is impossible. It took decades for Ford to get in the pickle they are in, with public perception. This cannot be corrected overnight. It can't. No matter how great the product is. They could build the most amazing car, with the best price ever seen.................. and there would still be a majority of people who would say "wow, great car............. lets see how it is doing in 5 years, then I might buy one." This does nothing to help today. I realize that the slow, steady approach is very frustrating in this day and age of instant gratification. I realize that Ford may be a bit conservative these days. I realize that the approach of looking into the future is not something that we are used to from a domestic. However, I honestly feel that this is what will ensure Fords future. To me, the Fusion is a very above average car. While it may not be the best at everything, I believe that it makes the proper compromises to allow it to appeal to people. The people just gotta come in to look at it. Great experiences from todays owners is what will create a very successful car, in the long run. Oh, and yes, the Camry is the best at one thing................. sales. Woo hoo. They could be class leading by 2008 if they wanted to... That is my point... 2010-2012 is not going to cut it. By not being class leading, they will never turn the public opinionin their favor.. That I my whole point... This good enough approach is not going to save Ford... P.S. The Camry is also #1 at acceleration...( and gets better gas milage than the Fusion ) Edited March 18, 2007 by sranger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGallun Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 They could be class leading by 2008 if they wanted to... That is my point... 2010-2012 is not going to cut it. By not being class leading, they will never turn the public opinionin their favor.. That I my whole point... This good enough approach is not going to save Ford... P.S. The Camry is also #1 at acceleration...( and gets better gas milage than the Fusion ) realworld useage tell different , especially on gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 With the Fusion, that's regular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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