The Official "Six Months Later" Thread

[Hugh]

Yes it is a good thing, but if it was "done right the first time", the tires would have been changed when the vehicle was launched, not after a model year. If the solution is that simple, there is no excuse.

If it is the tires then I have to agree with you on that one. Not to sound apologetic, yet the time spent should hopefully get some good ones.

 

Whoever was the person who was talking about it please stand and be recognized. Enlighten the masses, what news from the North?

[silvrsvt]

If the brakes are fine, then why is Ford "fixing" them?

 

To cover there asses? No reason not to fix it....

 

Yes it is a good thing, but if it was "done right the first time", the tires would have been changed when the vehicle was launched, not after a model year. If the solution is that simple, there is no excuse.

 

You make it sound so easy for Ford to go out and buy 120K plus sets of tires for the Edge and MKX...they have contracts and if an issue came up late in QA, their was no way to change it...

[pcsario]

If the brakes are fine, then why is Ford "fixing" them?

Keep in mind he's silvrsvt.

 

Ford NA could sell a car made of children's body parts, and he would be fine with it and say you're overreacting.

[630land]

Just like those Toyota and Honda recalls and 'silent warranties' that 'dont exist' right??

 

The brake issue was caught, just like some issues with the new Tundras. Isn't fiuxing before the sale somethign the Japanese were hailed for? Go buy a Kia Rio.

[Roadrunner]

I'd make a comment about bluecon, but I won't per managements wishes :P

 

The heck did I miss yesterday involving Bluecon?

[RichardJensen]

The heck did I miss yesterday involving Bluecon?

His account was suspended. No gloating, thank you.

[BORG]

I'm curious about the quality and customer satisfaction on the Edge. Any reliable stats yet?

[DCK]

I don't see how anyone could call it a failure, I think it is a success.

 

I am not even looking at it by sales, Sales are no doubt a success. But I think more importantly is that this vehicle is changing Ford's terrible public perception.

 

Of course judging based on the product alone, there are blatant improvements that are needed, It still has a lot of the "old" Ford mantra with hard plastics and poor fit, publications have been placing it last in comparos, I haven't read them so I don't know what they had issues with but ultimately Ford needs to improve on executing product.

[OAC_Sparky]

I just noticed that the Edge sales figures do not include the 2,901 Lincoln MKX sales in April or 9,964 YTD.

 

While it is aimed more at the Lexus, pricewise it starts at the top Murano price range.

[sranger]

No, it's turned off ONE customer (you). Everyone else seems fine with it, as evidenced by the sales.

 

 

I know of at least three other people in my company that did not buy one for the same reason. I have seen large numbers of people on other forurms saying that they were turned off by the braking problem. ( I guess it is possible that they were lying )

 

So, I know for a fact that four out of five people where I work decided not to buy one due to the braking issue...

 

How did you determine that I am the only person who did not buy one due to the braking issue?

[OAC_Sparky]

So, I know for a fact that four out of five people where I work decided not to buy one due to the braking issue...

So, one out of five know how to apply brakes properly? Hope you don't work for a delivery company.

[akirby]

I know of at least three other people in my company that did not buy one for the same reason. I have seen large numbers of people on other forurms saying that they were turned off by the braking problem. ( I guess it is possible that they were lying )

 

So, I know for a fact that four out of five people where I work decided not to buy one due to the braking issue...

 

How did you determine that I am the only person who did not buy one due to the braking issue?

 

Did any of those people actually buy something else? Most of the complaints are just people parroting what they read in Motor Trend or folks that you stirred up with your constant criticism. The vast majority of the buying public doesn't know and doesn't care about the 60-0 numbers just like they don't care about 0-60 or skidpad performance. They drive it, they like it, they buy it.

 

Yes, the Edge takes 10-12 feet longer to stop than other similar vehicles. But it's not unsafe as you keep trying to say, and it's not affecting sales.

[sranger]

The original statement that is being countered in this thread is "I hate to say it, but she's gonna bomb. Go ahead, flame me, but we can revisit this in six months. - bec5150 on the Ford Edge, Nov 2 2006, 06:40 PM" so we are comparing how the performance has been over the first 6 months and whether it has bombed to date. Of course if you want to be the source of the "official 12 month/1 year later" thread that can be arranged

 

First, I never said the Edge was going to be a failure. I personally think it will sell quite well. However, I do not think four months of sales with two up and one down proves anything...

[silvrsvt]

You make good excuses. Maybe you should work for Ford's media department.

 

Then whats your explanation on why this happened if your so enlightened?

[silvrsvt]

Ford NA could sell a car made of children's body parts, and he would be fine with it and say you're overreacting.

 

I only support the use of children's body parts as interior components...its a quick fix for hard plastics that Ford uses !

 

:happy feet: :happy feet: :hysterical:

[NickF1011]

I know of at least three other people in my company that did not buy one for the same reason. I have seen large numbers of people on other forurms saying that they were turned off by the braking problem. ( I guess it is possible that they were lying )

 

So, I know for a fact that four out of five people where I work decided not to buy one due to the braking issue...

 

How did you determine that I am the only person who did not buy one due to the braking issue?

 

Did they actually DRIVE the cars and see how the brakes did, or did they just go by magazine numbers? Were they even really shopping for a CUV? I mean really. If the vehicle stops, the brakes work. People are blowing this out of proportion like you won't be able to stop when you see a school bus full of children a half mile ahead of you and you'll be forced to either plow over the kids getting off the bus or swerving off the road and into a field of frolicking puppies.

[sranger]

Did any of those people actually buy something else? Most of the complaints are just people parroting what they read in Motor Trend or folks that you stirred up with your constant criticism. The vast majority of the buying public doesn't know and doesn't care about the 60-0 numbers just like they don't care about 0-60 or skidpad performance. They drive it, they like it, they buy it.

 

Yes, the Edge takes 10-12 feet longer to stop than other similar vehicles. But it's not unsafe as you keep trying to say, and it's not affecting sales.

 

Out of Five people( my self included ), One bought and Edge, One bought a CR-V, One bought a 4Runner, and two are still waiting...

 

I drove a MKX most of the day on Tuesday. The dealer let me drive one while the airconditioner in my Mariner was repaired. I have said many times that most people would never notice the problem. However, I know that an extra 10-20ft of stopping significantly increases your chances of being in an accident. As a result, I decided not buy one at this time and I know for a fact that I am not the only person who feels that way. If you want to bash me for that choice, please feel free to do so...

[OAC_Sparky]

Friends worried about safety?

 

I would rather take 10 ft longer to stop in a panic 60-0 than die getting hit by a car at 100 MPH.

 

Two die when car collides with SUV

 

And a quote from the email forwarded to the Edge team:

 

Hello everyone, on Friday night my high school hosted its prom at the

Fox Theater. There was a car accident that evening. A teacher's son

(Morehouse student) was driving his sister and three other students home

from the prom. Their car was in a head-on collision with a sedan going

over 100 mi/hr. The students were driving a Ford Edge and wearing

seatbelts. They all survived and suffered minor injuries, but the other

people in the car did not survive. The cops at the seen shared that the

Ford Edge maintained its integrity because of how well built it is, and

the fact that the students were wearing seatbelts helped save their

lives.

 

 

I've taught all these students, including the brother, and I know they

are alive because God is merciful, they were wearing seatbelts and they

were driving a very safe car. <Name omitted for privacy>, your company gets a lot of kudos

from us. Keep the families of the deceased in your prayers, and pray

for quick recoveries for my students. We must always remember that God

is good!!!!!

 

 

 

Here is an excerpt of what one parent shared in an email to the faculty:

 

While traveling from last night's prom, Marietta High School juniors

(names of students are purposely omitted) were hit head on by a speeding

vehicle which crossed over into the path of the SUV in which the

students were riding. At the request of his sister, my twenty year old

son, came home from college to drive my daughter and her friends to and

from the prom. An oncoming sedan traveling at a speed in excess of 100

mph crossed over and hit the students' car on the driver's side on South

Cobb Drive near Dobbins. Although our students suffered only

non-threatening injuries, the two passengers in the vehicle which hit

our students, did not survive.

 

Officers on the scene praised our students' conduct and stated that all

were wearing their seat belts. Believing that the students were truly

blessed, the officer also credited the up to date safety features of the

SUV, the Ford Edge, for helping to save our children's lives. Although

our students will be sore for awhile with an undesired set of memories

that will last a lifetime, all are doing well.

 

<<Name removed for privacy>>

Marietta High School

[sranger]

Friends worried about safety?

 

I would rather take 10 ft longer to stop in a panic 60-0 than die getting hit by a car at 100 MPH.

 

Two die when car collides with SUV

 

And a quote from the email forwarded to the Edge team:

 

Again, I never said it was not a safe vehicle. I like the Edge/MKX and will buy one if Ford fixes the brakes. I think it is great the the Edge is such a safe vehicle. It is one of the reasons why I want one, but I would also like to improve my chances of avoiding an accident in the first place by Ford improving the braking ability which is at the bottom of its class before I buy one...

 

I DO NOT think that is too much to ask for them to do on a $35-40K vehicle....

[LincolnFan]

Wow, pretty nice. I guess that extra 700 pounds paid off.

 

Good job OAC.

[Michael Reynolds]

I took the Fusion in on Tuesday to have them take a look at a trim piece, but because I couldn't wait I talked to the Service Manager and he put me into a loaner (which happened to be an Edge).

 

I drive a lot for work, and that day I had to drive from Ft. Lauderdale to Miami and then up to Melbourne and back home, So I put basically 300 and some odd miles on the Edge that same day.

 

- People in South Florida can not drive worth a damn and not once did I feel that the Edge was incapable of coming to a stop safely. If there were no mention of long stopping distances I'd be willing to bet that very few of those that complain would be able to tell the difference. Keeping a safe following distance and varying speeds depending upon the driving conditions tend to keep most people out of trouble. The brake actuation was smooth and flood, peddle travel was OK and it felt very confident during panic stops

 

-Hankook tires suck. The howl and provide rather power traction from a standing start. This is one of my major annoyances with Ford Motor to this day. My Ranger had crap stock tires, the F 150 did and the ones on the Fusion are marginal.

 

-Even with the crap tires the Edge handles very well considering the higher center of gravity and mass. I took several cloverleafs similar to how I would in my A4 or Fusion, and the Edge performed flawlessly. The steering lacks a little bit of on center feel but I was very impressed with how well the Edge handled.

 

-The D35 also seemed to move the vehicle without skipping a beat. It seems to have a more linear powerband than the D30 and much

sans the coarseness. The same thing can be said of the joint venture 6 spd. It's smooth, not as easily confused as the Aisin unit and doesn't require much coaxing getting it to do what you want.

[sim]

Just thinking this through a little in terms of statistical/mathematical significance of this braking issue:

 

When you are travelling at 60 mph that is equal to 88 ft/sec.

The estimated additional stopping distance of 10-20 feet (given the range from the rags) is about 0.1-0.2 seconds given that speed.

People on average have about a 0.2-0.3 second reaction time, which is lengthened by distractions such as cell phones, conversations or even doing something else, picking up food, changing radio station and such. You could easily look away for a second or so - i guarantee everyone on this board will do so at least once today (probably more times).

The average measured lead time from one car to the next is typically around 1 second (nowhere near the 2 or 3-second rule often mantra'd on dry surfaces - 4 in wet, more in icy conditions) - IIRC from my traffic engineering courses a few years back. Often this means you cant see much ahead of the car in front and anticipate problems.

What is the chance that you will need to stop from 60-0 in an emergency and not just slow down to 50/40/30 (etc) mph to avoid some kind of rear ending accident?

 

Given the wide range of possible stopping times from an instaneous reaction (impossible) to complete stop in 120 feet or so that some cars are supposed to get to a one second look away, followed by a reaction added to the equal 120 feet required to stop would give a total length of some 230 feet, the 10-20 feet that the Edge "might" take extra to stop is only 10-20% into that range of possible reaction differences (ie the 90 feet difference). Now anyone could say that it is unreasonable to allow 1.7 seconds of looking away and then reaction time, but looking at it, often the reason why people do emergency stops and/or crash (nearly crash) is because they travel way to close to the car in front have a distraction and then have to haul on the brakes to compensate?

 

The reason i put "might" above is that the measurements in the rags could have been done that the comparisons were with different folks each time, they missed the beginning of the stop by a fraction of a second (recall above 10-20 feet is only 0.1-0.2 seconds), didnt fully depress due to the softer feel of the brake pedal (i'll admit it is a little soft given the harsh brakes on my wife's Accord) or possibly didnt like the feel of those brakes and thought they'd make it seem like they werent as hot as the harsher brakes out there? Did they do repeat tests or just a one-off take it or leave it result? Were they all compared on the same roadway, under the same environmental conditions (temp of road and tires, dryness of the road, wear of the road, wind angle and speed and so on) - in other words are they really comparable?

 

Personally i like the variability of the brakes, you push gently it takes the edge off, you push a little harder and it brakes a little more, in some cars you barely brush the pedal and you feel yourself tightening against the seatbelt as if you are hurtling towards some kind of pile-up, i dont know if the car actually stops as hard on an emergency, but even wishing to take off 10mph over the course of a few car lengths feels like you are about to emergency stop - not desirable to me, but might be disconcerting to others. Again as i have stated before, i feel the brakes are fine (one rag review i read even said that the brakes were the same as the CX-7 super-stopper or words to that effect - but i havent heard anything about those being death traps to date) but that may not be what other think. I will also state in the couple of times i was either distracted or was unable to see the crappy unlit tail lights of the car in front (i was slowing/stopping due to the distance reducing rapidly) and had to come close to an emergency stop i was nearly rear ended by cars and pickups that were following me - surely their brakes should also be questioned??? I was more concerned about being hit from behind than hitting the guy in front!

 

Now i have finished my inquisition of the "quoted" braking results and whether they can be trusted as a reason to back off of buying this CUV i'll get back to the original question and reading other comments about if you can really guage the Edge as a bomb or whether its meeting its targets (which i think it is in demographic, competition trade-ins and sales results). I am right there in the demographic, traded in a competing Nissan and i am one of the number counted in the sales ledger along with some 33,611 others so far this year (to 4/30) and more by the day - give it another 8 months like that and you have 100k+ units sold.

Edited May 3, 2007 by sim

[sim]

Here is some interesting reading on following distances, stopping distances that i found after writing the above post. Compared to these numbers the Edge doesnt do badly even given some of the rags review "figures" and the reaction times might be a little longer than i had estimated (my estimate is more like the observation reaction time, not the observation, decision and action time needed to decide to move your foot etc).

 

More estimates of distance/time

Edited May 3, 2007 by sim

[SVTCobra]

Curious about something...

 

When comparing the weight of the Edge vs. the Murano, can the extra bulk be attributed to anything like future crash standards, etc?

[falconman13]

Ok, I was looking up some specs on MotorTrend for a Fusion/Accord comparo thing and I found the below info

 

2006 Ford Fusion SEL

Front engine, FWD

Engine type

V-6, alum block/heads

11.8-in vented disc; 11.0-in disc, ABS

Test Data

Acceleration to mph

0-60

7.2

Braking, 60-0 mph

B137 f

 

 

2005 Honda Accord EX

Front engine, FWD

V-6, alum block/heads

11.1-in vented disc; 10.2-in disc, ABS

Test Data

Acceleration to mph

6.6

149 ft

 

And here, from the same site is the Edge review

 

2007 Ford Edge SEL PlusBase price

$31,395

Price as tested

$36,765

Vehicle layout

Front-engine, AWD, 5-pass, 4-door SUV

Engine

3.5L/265-hp/250-lb-ft DOHC 24-valve V-6

Transmission

6-speed automatic

Curb weight (f/r dist)

4511 lb

Wheelbase

111.2 in

Length x width x height

185.7 x 75.8 x 67.2 in

0-60 mph

7.7 sec

Quarter mile

16.0 sec @ 86.0 mph

Braking, 60-0 mph

149 ft

 

 

So, it occurred to me to ask, Why is an Edge with the exact same stopping distance as the 05 Accord considered unsafe at any speed, while the Accord was/is a yearly top 10?

 

Edge Link

 

Accord Link