How the Flex will be a success

[ironhorse]

wow wow wow.....as a dealer I just sprung a giant woody over the possibilities. I've already gone on record saying this will be a big hit (and I'm not a fan of everything Ford does by the way) but this reinforces my belief. I just wish I had it now to sell as God knows I could use something exciting in my showroom.

 

 

Interesting...I'm a dealer also and I'm a little concerned...we need a volume vehicle that we can sell...I don't think the Flex will do that.

 

Price/value equation is where I am also concerned. The vehicle seems a little pricey to me...I see it as a niche vehicle,nothing more...hopefully they won't treat it like the 500/Taurus..with absolutely no advertising or marketing.

[campbell53]

Think of what you (we) are missing not having a people mover. I'm a medium sized store and I see 4-8 sales per month of the Flex. With trade in's etc this could be an additional 8-16 transactions per month (the Chryler store down the street from me would be closed if not for new and used mini van sales...we have neither). This is a conservative estimate. This will be more of an Edge and not a Taurus in terms of sales/factory support. Ford messed up the Taurus beyond belief (the car is ok but ok is not good enough after the screw-ups with powertrain/name change etc). I predict the Flex will have sufficient support to roll it out huge and the initial buuild quility will be super. The auto press will have no functional issues to bitch about (which killed the Taurus before it had a chance). Only the design will be polarizing which is a good thing. Price....well my last minivan for my wife was a loaded Freestar Limited that stickered over $37k. This is ten times the vehicle and will be in the same ballpark with a much higher residual for lease purposes. I'm not concerned about price based on what I've seen.

 

 

Interesting...I'm a dealer also and I'm a little concerned...we need a volume vehicle that we can sell...I don't think the Flex will do that.

 

Price/value equation is where I am also concerned. The vehicle seems a little pricey to me...I see it as a niche vehicle,nothing more...hopefully they won't treat it like the 500/Taurus..with absolutely no advertising or marketing.

Edited December 26, 2007 by campbell53

[ironhorse]

That's the problem. The Freestar MSRP was up in the 30's...but it always had at least $5000(mostly more) on the hood...so the transaction price was considerably lower. We need a vehicle that doesn't need huge amounts on the hood to move...but we have to have vehicle lines we can sell in VOLUME....We need a car that customers want to buy...not cars that we need to sell.

 

As a dealer,I can't afford to inventory a bunch of different high dollar niche vehicles to get the volume I need. A lot of dealers arn't in A-Z territory,so the price/value is a huge issue.

[elkarlo]

Interesting...I'm a dealer also and I'm a little concerned...we need a volume vehicle that we can sell...I don't think the Flex will do that.

 

Price/value equation is where I am also concerned. The vehicle seems a little pricey to me...I see it as a niche vehicle,nothing more...hopefully they won't treat it like the 500/Taurus..with absolutely no advertising or marketing.

 

 

Do you mean a volume people mover? Otherwise I figure the Focus and maybe the F-Series are volume vehicles. At the least maybe the Flex will get people to visit the deal lot. As these people may not have shown up since Ford axed the Minivan.

 

Is the Edge a volume seller? Or are you talking even higher monthly sales?

[charly]

Honestly, I just don't get the appeal for the Flex. A few months ago, I was going down the highway and met one going in the opposite direction. Since I haven't seen any around the Ford lots yet, I assume that I must have seen a pre-production model. Not appealing at all to me. Now the Edge I like okay. Its the most youthful family vehicle out there. Taurus doesn't score in sales yet, although its okay. Fusion is too small by my standards. Taurus X (and Freestyle) seems to be only driven by women in their fifties around here. I'm just not sure who the Flex is being marketed to. Then I'm to understand that its suppose to be a higher end Ford vehicle??

 

 

 

You saw one a "few" months ago...driving....???

I seriously doubt that what you saw was in fact an actual Ford Flex.

[suv_guy_19]

You saw one a "few" months ago...driving....???

I seriously doubt that what you saw was in fact an actual Ford Flex.

 

 

He lives near where they test them on the road. He sees mules and pre production vehicles all of the time.

[ironhorse]

Do you mean a volume people mover? Otherwise I figure the Focus and maybe the F-Series are volume vehicles. At the least maybe the Flex will get people to visit the deal lot. As these people may not have shown up since Ford axed the Minivan.

 

Is the Edge a volume seller? Or are you talking even higher monthly sales?

 

 

We need a volume seller...dealers have never fully recovered the volume lost on the Explorer,and that's hurt...we have to 3 or four different lines to try to account for the volume we used to have with one vehicle.

[Edstock]

"It looks like a Scion on steroids." Passenger Mary Ann Moore of Sebastopol, Calif., couldn't figure it out either. "It looks like a grown-up Mini Cooper,"

 

Great! It does look like a Scion on steroids or growth factor. Note that our perception of shape changes with size, and in this case, it looks better for the increase in scale, plus the hood contour is far better done, IMHO, than the Scion.

[P71_CrownVic]

I thought steroids were bad?

[campbell53]

we're never going to have the volume of the Explorer in a single vehicle again. We need to make it up on the nitch vehicles. And from what I can see they are on the way. The Flex is a great first start. Follow that up with B size variants, refreshed Fusion/Milan/MKZ (I'm L-M as well), Lincoln MKS/MKF, refreshed Mustang and we're on our way. 2008 is going to be tough like 07. Maybe tougher. But I think things will break open in 09.

Regarding the Edge as a volume seller...well my new vehicle sales are down 17% this year. If it weren't for the Edge and MKX I would be in deep deep trouble. Combining those two lines it is only second in volume to F-series. Btw, Mustang is down 44% for me so we need the new one fast.

 

He lives near where they test them on the road. He sees mules and pre production vehicles all of the time.

[rmc523]

"It looks like a Scion on steroids." Passenger Mary Ann Moore of Sebastopol, Calif., couldn't figure it out either. "It looks like a grown-up Mini Cooper,"

 

Great! It does look like a Scion on steroids or growth factor. Note that our perception of shape changes with size, and in this case, it looks better for the increase in scale, plus the hood contour is far better done, IMHO, than the Scion.

 

Can anything be considered done 'worse' than the Scion?

[ironhorse]

we're never going to have the volume of the Explorer in a single vehicle again.

 

With all due respect,why can't we have a high volume vehichle again?

[suv_guy_19]

With all due respect,why can't we have a high volume vehichle again?

 

Because the market has become significantly fragmented.

[rmc523]

Because the market has become significantly fragmented.

 

I'm surprised as a dealer, he hasn't been able to see that.

 

In today's auto market, there are so many different offerings from so many companies, as suv_guy said, the market is fragmented.

 

Back in Explorer's heyday, there weren't too many options to choose from, and Explorer was the best of those options, thus, producing the sales it did. With all sorts of options now, not everybody is going to flock to one product, unless there's a very good reason to. It seems that each option today has it's own good things, which makes the decision even tougher for a customer.

[rmc523]

sorry, double post.

Edited December 26, 2007 by rmc523

[campbell53]

Outside of the F-series it just isn't going to happen. Taurus and Explorer sold in the 400,000+ range annually back in the day. Those days are just plain over. The CR-V is the best selling SUV/CUV and it is just at 200k right now. Escape and Edge are at 132k and 116k respectively (and considered to be selling well). There are just too many alternatives for one particular model to be so dominate. I have come to terms with that and have been silently urging Ford to heed that call for a long time. By all rights we should have the 2010 models on the ground right now. But that is another argument for another day. Anyway if Ford can have more models consistantly turning in the 100k+ range we should be ok.

 

With all due respect,why can't we have a high volume vehichle again?

Edited December 26, 2007 by campbell53

[RichardJensen]

In light of lower volumes, hopefully Ford can get its option packages simplified, reducing the amount of stock that smaller dealers have to carry.

 

I can see where ironhorse is coming from on a floorplan basis: smaller volumes + dozens of configurations = high carrying cost for inventory. I would hope that Ford can sort that out with option rationalization.

[FordBuyer]

We need a volume seller...dealers have never fully recovered the volume lost on the Explorer,and that's hurt...we have to 3 or four different lines to try to account for the volume we used to have with one vehicle.

 

 

I would call 14,000/month in Edge sales a volume seller and most months even more Escapes go out the door. The Ford Dealers around me sell a ton of new Edges. That is one poplular crossover. I think the Flex will sell and I don't think at least 8,000/month is unreasonable and a chance for even more. A $28,000 base price for a big wagon/crossover like that is not too pricey.

[rmc523]

In light of lower volumes, hopefully Ford can get its option packages simplified, reducing the amount of stock that smaller dealers have to carry.

 

I can see where ironhorse is coming from on a floorplan basis: smaller volumes + dozens of configurations = high carrying cost for inventory. I would hope that Ford can sort that out with option rationalization.

 

IIRC, Alan Mulally said a while back that he wanted to simplify option packages in the future.

[Noah Harbinger]

In light of lower volumes, hopefully Ford can get its option packages simplified, reducing the amount of stock that smaller dealers have to carry.

 

I can see where ironhorse is coming from on a floorplan basis: smaller volumes + dozens of configurations = high carrying cost for inventory. I would hope that Ford can sort that out with option rationalization.

 

I would rather see them pushing direct customer orders -- I could really see that being a big draw for customers, getting exactly the options and colors you want, and feeling like the car was built just for you. It would also improve the inventory dilemma. If direct orders got top build priority, I wonder how quick the turnaround time could be from order to delivery?

Edited December 27, 2007 by Noah Harbinger

[Deanh]

I would rather see them pushing direct customer orders -- I could really see that being a big draw for customers, getting exactly the options and colors you want, and feeling like the car was built just for you. It would also improve the inventory dilemma. If direct orders got top build priority, I wonder how quick the turnaround time could be from order to delivery?

6 to 8 weeks...just long enough for buyers remorse to set in, the customer to reneg on the "deal" and the dealer to be burdened with a lime green with scarlet interior custom 'dream vehicle' ordered for someone with a very specific lack of taste....hasn't this subject been BEATEN before?

[RichardJensen]

If direct orders got top build priority

You would have a lot of stomping mad dealers....

 

Ford has tried pushing this before, it doesn't work well because you can't go by halves, either you get an overwhelming majority of all dealers on board with this, or you implement it and then have to abandon it because most of your volume business is stomping mad about how long it takes them to replace their inventory.

[P71_CrownVic]

IIRC, Alan Mulally said a while back that he wanted to simplify option packages in the future.

Which I find odd because the auto makers are insisting on having 3-4 vehicles that all do the same things.

 

Ford you have:

Taurus X - Excellent people mover with enough space to carry a grocery bag or a ton of 6ft florescent light bulbs, has AWD, and seats 6-7 people.

Escape - Small SUV, 5 people, AWD, but smaller than the X and can hold less people, and tows 3500K.

Edge - Bigger than the Escape, but only holds 5 people. Can be had with AWD, tows 3500K.

Upcoming xB...err...Flex - Another AWD wagon, holds 7 people, tows 4K, looks to have TONS of room (boxes are very efficient).

 

Does Ford really think that each vehicle offers something unique enough to justify it's existence?

 

And before someone mentions gas mileage...how efficient is it to produce 4 vehicles versus two?

 

I know which two I would axe

[silvrsvt]

Which I find odd because the auto makers are insisting on having 3-4 vehicles that all do the same things.

 

Ford you have:

Taurus X - Excellent people mover with enough space to carry a grocery bag or a ton of 6ft florescent light bulbs, has AWD, and seats 6-7 people.

Escape - Small SUV, 5 people, AWD, but smaller than the X and can hold less people, and tows 3500K.

Edge - Bigger than the Escape, but only holds 5 people. Can be had with AWD, tows 3500K.

Upcoming xB...err...Flex - Another AWD wagon, holds 7 people, tows 4K, looks to have TONS of room (boxes are very efficient).

 

Does Ford really think that each vehicle offers something unique enough to justify it's existence?

 

And before someone mentions gas mileage...how efficient is it to produce 4 vehicles versus two?

 

I know which two I would axe

 

Better to take away sales from your own brand then someone going to another brand since they offer something else.

 

The days of one size fits all is gone..outside a select couple vehicles.

 

Not to mention that 2 of those 4 cars share the same platform.

[kevinb120]

It will sell just fine, and it is a vehicle that fills quite a hole in the US automotive market. A minivan that's not a minivan. Base models will do well too with small business owners(like the Scion XB/Element do) as it provides the room of a minivan but has a lot of flair to make the most of your company name on the back window. Minivans lately are not cheap either, load up a Sienna AWD sometime, they outprice a lot of Expeditions.

 

Taurus X is getting some momentum through reviews, Ford continues to ignore advertising it though. This vehicle is really what a lot of people should be driving. THIS VEHICLE NEEDS ADVERTISING! It's painful selling them and hardly anybody knows what it is. Buyers even of the more humble Freestyle are some of the happiest owners I've ever seen. A Limited Taurus X is by no means a boring station wagon. Funny enough more recognition from customers is coming from the likes of Consumer Reports readers then Ford's PR department. And relying on CR's reviews to sell Fords is a LONG return on investment. I thought we had a new advertising group?? Lump the two Taurus lines together and come up with a fucking commercial already...

 

Edge is different that it's a 'lifestyle' vehicle. It hovers in the mix of a lot of possible alternatives, but it has style and come cool features like the BAMR that nobody else has and great second-row legroom for 2 ADULT friends, not a gaggle of children. It fights more for the single-but-I-want-an-suv buyer. It is more in the Murano/FJ Cruiser crowd then the staple Escape/RAV/CRV/Highlander buyer. It fits more with the childless 30-somethings and people in their 50's that want to have something jazzy but they do carry around the grandchildren every now and again. The more you look a them, the less everything else seems to 'match' as you would think at first glance on paper. Its a master of nothing, but sure does a whole lot of different things better then most people need anyway. Show somebody the roof and the reclining rear seat using the folded passenger seat as a footrest and just about anyone says 'holy shit thats cool'....Between good PR and advertising, a few more people going out to lunch in them they will continue to sell even better.

 

 

Only thing I'm really disappointed with in Ford's CUV line is the Escape not getting the newer power package from the Fusion and reverting to drum brakes. Regardless of Ford's bullshit reasons for why it didn't upgrade the powertrain. And for the $20 per unit they save on drum brakes, its going to be mentioned in EVERY review. Duh!