BrewfanGRB Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 And as so many have said....."We don't need or want a truck that is as big as a 150"!!!!! And have so many, many more others have pointed out: Just because some people, even if in absolute terms is "a lot" of people, want a Ranger-type, doesn't mean it's enough people to justify the cost to update the vehicle, etc. I simply do not understand why people take this so damned personally and not see this as a pure cost-benefit, marketing, sales issue. That's all it is. This is not complex. Not enough of these vehicles (just because YOU might/maybe/sorta buy one) can be sold to justify the expense to continue it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Yes, it can, just think of all the F-150 variants that exist, but I suspect that the problem is that the cost of getting the different, narrower coachwork collision certified for side impact. Also, the cost of the dies for that coachwork are probably almost as expensive as the dies for the monocoque, unitized equivalent, so a frame may not really save much, especially in today's CADCAM world. Also, there may be expensive costs and/or compromises in adjusting the track width of the suspension. It's easier to widen an F-150 to build a Raptor, than to narrow an F-150 to create an F-100. So maybe the solution is to start from scratch at the f-100 and go up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 . This is not complex. Not enough of these vehicles (just because YOU might/maybe/sorta buy one) can be sold to justify the expense to continue it. That being the case then that is what Mulally should have said instead of this nonesne about how small and medium size cars and suv's fill the slot of a pickup truck which is obviously not going to pass muster with anyone looking for a small or midsize truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 That being the case then that is what Mulally should have said instead of this nonesne about how small and medium size cars and suv's fill the slot of a pickup truck which is obviously not going to pass muster with anyone looking for a small or midsize truck. Mulally is smart enough to know not to box himself in and close off any opportunity to change plans in the future. That doesn't mean the US will take T6 in the future, it just means Ford reserve the right to change its plans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Mulally is smart enough to know not to box himself in and close off any opportunity to change plans in the future. That doesn't mean the US will take T6 in the future, it just means Ford reserve the right to change its plans Whatever. Its really not that deep for me because I don't really care. But telling people that somehow some small cars and midsize suv's or some such can take the place of a pickup truck was just a dumb thing to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 If you folks are this worked up about the P375, wait until you see a U375. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 If you folks are this worked up about the P375, wait until you see a U375. You're such a tease..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) Ah, nothing like hauling a load of firewood or lawnmower in the back of your Lexus SUV. Dirt and grease add a lot of character to the leather and carpets. You've just described why I bought a Ranger in '93 instead of an Explorer. Now that I'm married with a family, my needs have changed. but not so much that I'd be willing to park an SUV and a trailer in my driveway. I've been hoping for a 4-door Ranger or a smaller F-150. Just not willing to accept only the choices that Ford gives me, nor should they expect me to. So, I guess I'll be looking elsewhere when the time comes. Edited November 15, 2011 by RangerM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 If you folks are this worked up about the P375, wait until you see a U375. Only references I'm getting are to a P3 platform which is the Super Duty As for the Ranger...if your going to be doing "serious" work with it, day in and day out...your better off with a F-150. To me, it seems like the Vast majority of people lamenting the death of the Ranger are people who want a car with a Pickup bed in it that they can use every once in a while when the need arises...in all seriousness, do you need a pickup bed EVERY SINGLE DAY? If you answered yes to that...don't you think you might need a "real" truck? In fleet useage...the Ranger can be replaced by the Transit Connect for 90-95% of roles out there. For Personal usage, an Escape or Edge is a far better choice for Families need to cart around kids and what not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 The US Ranger was pigeonholed because it could only seat 2 adults. Had the quad cab been offered with an efficient off-the-shelf motor, sales would have improved drastically. It was...it was just called the Explorer Sport Trac! There was Quad Door Ranger (they where running around up at the Edison plant before it closed) but for whatever reason Ford didn't purse it...water under the bridge... Ah, nothing like hauling a load of firewood or lawnmower in the back of your Lexus SUV. Dirt and grease add a lot of character to the leather and carpets. People who can afford a Lexus normally don't haul around Firewood or lawnmowers in their SUV...they pay someone else to cut their lawn or get wood dropped off to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 The US Ranger was pigeonholed because it could only seat 2 adults. Had the quad cab been offered with an efficient off-the-shelf motor, sales would have improved drastically. That doesn't explain why the entire market (including quad cab tacomas and fronteirs) is so small and shrinking. It's not just Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 That's why I feel that while the next F-150 will be a fuel economy leader for full-size pickups, there is a need for a smaller pickup. Problem is, the new Ranger just isn't that much cheaper to build than an F-150. Chevy's new Colorado may be too expensive when it is compared to the SIlverado. IMHO, building a pickup from the FWD platforms like Transit Connect or Focus with heavy-duty FWD components from the Interceptor program's learning curve and the 2.0 EB as an option, could be an effective answer to those who want something smaller and cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 That doesn't explain why the entire market (including quad cab tacomas and fronteirs) is so small and shrinking. It's not just Ford. How many Super Bowl ads have you seen for mid-size trucks in the past 10 years? How many Ranger-only TV ads have you EVER seen? Toyota sells ~100,000 Tacomas every year; every single one of them without rebates/incentives or TV spots. A technologically ancient design (semi-boxed frame, rear drums) that barely gets 18mpg; much like the Ranger, but it sells because you can get 4 doors. Other manufacturers are getting ready to capitalize on the departure of the Ranger and Dakota from the market. Nissan is starting to aggressively advertise the Frontier and Honda has been running ads for the 2012 Ridgeline Sport in preparation for the 2013 redesign. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Only references I'm getting are to a P3 platform which is the Super Duty As for the Ranger...if your going to be doing "serious" work with it, day in and day out...your better off with a F-150. To me, it seems like the Vast majority of people lamenting the death of the Ranger are people who want a car with a Pickup bed in it that they can use every once in a while when the need arises...in all seriousness, do you need a pickup bed EVERY SINGLE DAY? If you answered yes to that...don't you think you might need a "real" truck? In fleet useage...the Ranger can be replaced by the Transit Connect for 90-95% of roles out there. For Personal usage, an Escape or Edge is a far better choice for Families need to cart around kids and what not. Personally I don't lament the end of the Ranger. It needed to end. What it really needed was a serious update to make it competitive. As far as people needing a pickup truck only once in a while there are plenty of people out there who buy a truck as a second vehicle and in that light a truck like the Ranger or Tacoma works just fine. I should know, thats what I did. My Tacoma gets driven a couple days a week and the rest of the time it stays in my garage or gets taken out when I have something to do that requires a pickup. What I didn't need was some giant unwieldy overpriced full size truck that was way more than I needed and wouldn't fit in my garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 How many Super Bowl ads have you seen for mid-size trucks in the past 10 years? How many Ranger-only TV ads have you EVER seen? Toyota sells ~100,000 Tacomas every year; every single one of them without rebates/incentives or TV spots. A technologically ancient design (semi-boxed frame, rear drums) that barely gets 18mpg; much like the Ranger, but it sells because you can get 4 doors. Other manufacturers are getting ready to capitalize on the departure of the Ranger and Dakota from the market. Nissan is starting to aggressively advertise the Frontier and Honda has been running ads for the 2012 Ridgeline Sport in preparation for the 2013 redesign. Their might still be a market (like Minivans) but to Ford (at this time) it doesn't make any sense to make an investment in it. Like Ford has been saying, they aren't going to be in every single market... Not to mention that to make Ranger worthwhile for Ford, it would have to sell for the same price as say a Mustang (another lower Volume product that sells about 100-120K units a year)..and once you start getting into the 30+K range...I think people would much rather get a F-150 for that money. About your Tacoma comment....I can get a $500 rebate on them according to the Toyota website...so your comment is invalid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 How many Super Bowl ads have you seen for mid-size trucks in the past 10 years? How many Ranger-only TV ads have you EVER seen? Toyota sells ~100,000 Tacomas every year; every single one of them without rebates/incentives or TV spots. A technologically ancient design (semi-boxed frame, rear drums) that barely gets 18mpg; much like the Ranger, but it sells because you can get 4 doors. Other manufacturers are getting ready to capitalize on the departure of the Ranger and Dakota from the market. Nissan is starting to aggressively advertise the Frontier and Honda has been running ads for the 2012 Ridgeline Sport in preparation for the 2013 redesign. Congratulations - you're the new leader of the Ranger mafia. And you don't even have to make up new whines - you can just copy the Panther mafia word for word. It doesn't matter who is selling what within the market - the market itself is small and it's been shrinking over the years. Those are the facts whether you like it or not. Ford will have a smaller more fuel efficient pickup in the near future - whether it's T6 or F150 based. But it's not ready yet and Ford isn't going to tip their hand about it. If Ford wasn't forced to make a big investment in Ranger they could have afforded to keep it around another 2 years but that wasn't feasible. It does not mean we won't ever see a smaller, lighter pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Their might still be a market (like Minivans) but to Ford (at this time) it doesn't make any sense to make an investment in it. Like Ford has been saying, they aren't going to be in every single market... Not to mention that to make Ranger worthwhile for Ford, it would have to sell for the same price as say a Mustang (another lower Volume product that sells about 100-120K units a year)..and once you start getting into the 30+K range...I think people would much rather get a F-150 for that money. About your Tacoma comment....I can get a $500 rebate on them according to the Toyota website...so your comment is invalid. Rebate is only for 2011 leftovers; it wasn't there last time I checked (September/October). The 2011 F-150 had $1000 sitting on the hood all year, despite the fact that many trucks were backordered due to limited Ecoboost availability. My point was that if a company puts out a good, desirable product in the mid-size arena, it will sell. Tacoma currently has the "best" small truck reputation, whether it is deserved or not. The competition is just too weak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Rebate is only for 2011 leftovers 2012 MY at the dealership I was looking at.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) It was...it was just called the Explorer Sport Trac! There was Quad Door Ranger (they where running around up at the Edison plant before it closed) but for whatever reason Ford didn't purse it...water under the bridge... I think the Sport Trac proved to Ford that building a new Ranger would be a waste of money. The Sport Trac cost almost as much as an F150 and didn't really have any MPG advantage. As far as the Quad Door Ranger does, wasn't it killed to due to side impact regs? The Crew Cab Ranger still lives in Mexico & South America, not that it matters... People who can afford a Lexus normally don't haul around Firewood or lawnmowers in their SUV...they pay someone else to cut their lawn or get wood dropped off to them. You would be surprised. I had my trees trimmed and had a couple of dead trees cut down a few years back and when I put out a "free firewood" sign, I had an older couple pull up in a brand new Acura MDX and load up as much as they could into the back of it. There was bark and sawdust allover the inside of that thing. There was also a guy in a Lexus ES that filled their trunk too. I guess they'll get their own firewood when it's free... Edited November 15, 2011 by NLPRacing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 You would be surprised. I had my trees trimmed and had a couple of dead trees cut down a few years back and when I put out a "free firewood" sign, I had an older couple pull up in a brand new Acura MDX and load up as much as they could into the back of it. There was bark and sawdust allover the inside of that thing. There was also a guy in a Lexus ES that filled their trunk too. I guess they'll get their own firewood when it's free... Never said people weren't stupid either...I don't think I'd have an issue putting that in the back of a nice car if I had a tarp etc to help protect the interior. What the heck is that ranger? is that a old US spec one or a old Global Ranger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) Never said people weren't stupid either...I don't think I'd have an issue putting that in the back of a nice car if I had a tarp etc to help protect the interior. What the heck is that ranger? is that a old US spec one or a old Global Ranger? That is the Latin American Ranger, which is our Ranger with updated sheetmetal. Edited November 15, 2011 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 If you folks are this worked up about the P375, wait until you see a U375. sounds like Submarine designations... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 That is the Latin American Ranger, which is our Ranger with updated sheetmetal. Where do they build it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Never said people weren't stupid either...I don't think I'd have an issue putting that in the back of a nice car if I had a tarp etc to help protect the interior. What the heck is that ranger? is that a old US spec one or a old Global Ranger? Where do they build it? I think it's made in Brazil. I saw ton of them back in early August when the wife & I went to Cancun/Riviera Maya. They were everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I think it's made in Brazil. I saw ton of them back in early August when the wife & I went to Cancun/Riviera Maya. They were everywhere. South America is also switching to T6 Ranger, I wonder if it will be available in Mexico.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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