2013 Ford Escape World Debut

[akirby]

As far as I can tell, I didn't make one absolute statement.

 

I stand corrected. It's just that the tone of your posts sound just like a couple of others who do make those kinds of statements.

[rkisler]

I wonder if Ford will open up its archives, eventually, to a writer that can explain what happened with Ford & Mazda.

 

With Jaguar and Land Rover, I can believe that Ford simply didn't have the time/money to weed out and restructure those operations in order to get rid of the 'hobby farm' culture that had developed there since Ford's takeover. And I believe similar considerations were in play at Volvo.

 

But with Mazda, things seemed different. Mazda led development of the Fiesta platform, and contributed to C1. Mazda was also profitable on a more or less continuous basis.

 

One hopes that Mazda wasn't cut loose for ideological reasons: "One Ford!"

 

I had a number of years of "intense" interaction with Mazda, plus other Asia Pacific and European experience, including FoE, Jaguar and -- to a lesser extent -- Land Rover, Aston Martin and Volvo. But of course, I've been gone a while and don't know the exact strategic reasons for the Mazda breakup. But, knowing what I do, I can speculate. I'll keep it very short since I don't want to drag the sting too far off course.

 

1. Ford's intital involvement with Mazda was to provide lightly differentiated Mazda product to Asia Pacific and Rest of World (ROW) markets (including domestic Japan). And to provide CKD "kits" to markets that had high import tariffs for built-up vehicles (Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, Malaysia, et. al). In some places they replaced FoE products that were expensive, with poor quality, and low "kit" integrity (i.e., missing parts).

 

2. Ford NA stared using Mazda products first with the Courier, but the real cooperation began in earnest with the CT18 Tracer manufactured in Hermosillo -- a plant that was designed by Mazda.

 

3. One thing is clear; NA simply cannot design small cars to save themselves. As a consequence, the design origin of the vehicles has shifted like the sands along a beach. The b-car came from Mazda (via Kia) while FoE had the Fiesta. The c-car went from FNA to Mazda then to FoE. The C/D car went from FNA to FoE to Mazda. The Probe was replaced by the Cougar.

 

4. At each major step of the process, there were attempts to get the programs together on a worldwide basis. But NIH was always an issue -- particularly FoE's view toward Asian companies IMO.

 

5. There were major efforts to standardize Ford's/Mazda's/(Volvo's)/(Jaguar's)/(Land Rover's) product development "factories" and also manufacturing techniques (with a key emphasis on build order). Ford's Product Development System came from Mazda. With a few exceptions, all of these factories are now pretty much the same for build order.

 

6. FoE conducted a major study on commonality and developed the strategy we now see. Nothing magical, as other manufacturers, both Asian and European, had already been doing it. It consists of maximum commonality with components and platforms being pushed and pulled between segments. And even where a unique platform is required, components, like power packs, are made as common as possible and they are spread amongst the models.

 

7. Doing joint programs is difficult; doing worldwide programs is even more challenging. Derrik Kuzak did a great job on C1, but let's not forget that FNA wasn't in the plan.

 

8. There is a lot under the surface that can affect economies of scale. For instance, the lead design activity will be working with suppliers to leverage their engineering. And FoE's suppliers are different than Japan's. So, for Mazda to accept an Foe design, they either have to have their favorite suppliers pay for the design and replicate it, or have them design an equivalent part. Feed stock can also play a role. The specs for plastics, for instance, differ by country, so sorting that out can cause time and expense to make sure you can find something locally that meets the same spec at a lower price. None of these issues are insurmountable, but they take time, and can lead to design and material differences.

 

9. It think it most likely got to the point where Mullaly was insisting on a single design source. And, since Foe already had a plan that encompassed C through C/D, he put them in the lead and told NA to follow with "no excuses." In part, this was also done as Mazda doesn't necessarily offer a huge volume contribution to economies of scale, so Ford decided to ensure they got economies of scale with themselves and probably told Mazda "We're doing this. If you want to come along, come see us." rather than "How would you like to do this together?"

 

Ford gained tremendously from its relationship with Mazda. And Mazda was able to survive with Ford's assistance. Personally I would rather have seen Mazda continue to be a joint player with Ford. I can't imagine they can make it long term by themselves.

 

Just my $0.02 worth

Edited November 18, 2011 by Austin

[stpatrick90]

Good post Patrick. I know a guy who has one of those 1,000 customer mobile paper routes (one of his customers is William Clay Ford Jr.) and he destroyed his Escape in about two years delivering WSJ, NYT, and DFP/DN seven days a week 365 days/year, much of it on back roads in Ann Arbor area. He got a Jeep Liberty and three years out it's still running strong. Perfect vehicle for those who bitch about the feminized Escape even though I see a lot of females driving Liberty also. The Liberty is a little tank and proof is the very mediocre fuel milage.

 

As for the Socialism remark, it's amazing to me how no matter what the subject is, somehow politics gets into thread. And I don't care what the subject is. It could be about best fertilizer to use on your lawn and someone will bring politics into it. It's like the whole world and everything in it is seen through a political prism by some. I'm burnt out by the political bullshit and empty rhetoric on both sides. Like is too fricking short to be sidetracked by it all the time.

 

I agree completely with you assertion about politics. I deal with politics - both domestic and international - all day at work and it would just be nice if just for once someone would attempt to have an apolitical conversation. Especially when people make political assertions that are wildly misinformed. /Rant

 

 

More to topic it seems people care more about perceived capability based on appearance versus real capability. I think many of the people criticizing the new Escape for some reason associate 'box on wheels' with more capability when the new Escape most likely is every bit as capable as the old one. This is my opinion and I know that not everyone criticizing the new Escape is not necessarily following this line of thought. People just need to remember that looks are subjective not objective, so while one person may dislike a design another can like it. Ultimately decreeing a design a failure or reiterating your opinion numerous times accomplishes nothing.

[akirby]

I agree completely with you assertion about politics. I deal with politics - both domestic and international - all day at work and it would just be nice if just for once someone would attempt to have an apolitical conversation. Especially when people make political assertions that are wildly misinformed. /Rant

 

 

More to topic it seems people care more about perceived capability based on appearance versus real capability. I think many of the people criticizing the new Escape for some reason associate 'box on wheels' with more capability when the new Escape most likely is every bit as capable as the old one. This is my opinion and I know that not everyone criticizing the new Escape is not necessarily following this line of thought. People just need to remember that looks are subjective not objective, so while one person may dislike a design another can like it. Ultimately decreeing a design a failure or reiterating your opinion numerous times accomplishes nothing.

 

It's actually simpler than that. They just like the old styling and do not like the new styling. All the rest is just fluff to support the dislike for the styling.

[FordBuyer]

It's actually simpler than that. They just like the old styling and do not like the new styling. All the rest is just fluff to support the dislike for the styling.

 

Yeah, who cares that the new Escape has more cargo room, better AWD system, better fuel mileage, more stylish, more available features and engines, and on and on. Uh, boxy profile and great fuel mileage don't go hand in hand. Ask Jeep Liberty owners as they are lucky to get 20mpg on highway. Even the EB Escape with almost 240hp will get 30mpg highway. Ford is leaving Jeep in dust unless you want to go and climb rocks and cross streams. Ford is going after the broad customer base while Jeep is limiting its customer base. There is a place for the hard core customer, but Ford doesn't have to be the one to satisfy it. Let Jeep fill it.

[silvrsvt]

Yeah, who cares that the new Escape has more cargo room, better AWD system, better fuel mileage, more stylish, more available features and engines, and on and on. Uh, boxy profile and great fuel mileage don't go hand in hand.

 

Current Escape V6 with AWD gets about 21 MPG around town and 26-28 on the highway...real world...

 

 

 

 

 

[stpatrick90]

Yeah, who cares that the new Escape has more cargo room, better AWD system, better fuel mileage, more stylish, more available features and engines, and on and on. Uh, boxy profile and great fuel mileage don't go hand in hand. Ask Jeep Liberty owners as they are lucky to get 20mpg on highway. Even the EB Escape with almost 240hp will get 30mpg highway. Ford is leaving Jeep in dust unless you want to go and climb rocks and cross streams. Ford is going after the broad customer base while Jeep is limiting its customer base. There is a place for the hard core customer, but Ford doesn't have to be the one to satisfy it. Let Jeep fill it.

 

Apparently Jeep doesn't want that market even....

 

Next Jeep Liberty...

 

[fordmantpw]

Yeah, who cares that the new Escape has more cargo room, better AWD system, better fuel mileage, more stylish, more available features and engines, and on and on. Uh, boxy profile and great fuel mileage don't go hand in hand. Ask Jeep Liberty owners as they are lucky to get 20mpg on highway. Even the EB Escape with almost 240hp will get 30mpg highway. Ford is leaving Jeep in dust unless you want to go and climb rocks and cross streams. Ford is going after the broad customer base while Jeep is limiting its customer base. There is a place for the hard core customer, but Ford doesn't have to be the one to satisfy it. Let Jeep fill it.

 

Wow...that was a very well written post, FordBuyer, and I agree with it! I'm shocked!

[Boss444]

I stand corrected. It's just that the tone of your posts sound just like a couple of others who do make those kinds of statements.

 

Thank you.

 

Uh, boxy profile and great fuel mileage don't go hand in hand.

 

Your honor, exhibit A, B, and C:

 

 

 

[twintornados]

Sadly, I showed the pictures of the new Escape to the lovely Linda, she is not a fan of the new style (dang stubborn Italian women...)...but then again, she didn't like the Escape when she bought her first one in 2002...didn't like the style and wouldn't even sit in one.....went to the Mazda dealership and took a Tribute out, she really liked it...imagine her surprise when I told her, "Great, I am glad you like it...we just drove an Escape'"....just gotta figure out a way to trick her again.....LOL.

[Edstock]

Yeah, who cares that the new Escape has more cargo room, better AWD system, better fuel mileage, more stylish, more available features and engines, and on and on. Uh, boxy profile and great fuel mileage don't go hand in hand. Ask Jeep Liberty owners as they are lucky to get 20mpg on highway. Even the EB Escape with almost 240hp will get 30mpg highway. Ford is leaving Jeep in dust unless you want to go and climb rocks and cross streams. Ford is going after the broad customer base while Jeep is limiting its customer base. There is a place for the hard core customer, but Ford doesn't have to be the one to satisfy it. Let Jeep fill it.

Right on.

 

Besides, Ford already makes a hard core Jeep, it's just not imported from Brazil.

 

 

Trollers are neat. Love the air intake — it'll go through God-knows how many feet of water. I sure wish a business case could be made for bringing them to North America, especially with a 1.6/2.0 EB.

 

 

 

 

[josh_4184]

Before we looked at and ordered a AWD Fusion we test drove an Escape and were very uninspired by its performance,styling, and interior, the new escape seems to be a huge step in the right direction, good job Ford.

[FordBuyer]

Before we looked at and ordered a AWD Fusion we test drove an Escape and were very uninspired by its performance,styling, and interior, the new escape seems to be a huge step in the right direction, good job Ford.

 

Yes, the only amazing thing about the Escape is how its dated exterior and interior sold as well as it did for as long as it did. Many on here would say it's mostly because of its trucky looks even though it was really a car based CUV, but in reality it was its bargain price, especially on the popular XLT model. Ford ran a lot of popular Moon and Tune packages on the XLT over the years. It was a decent workhorse albeit dated outside and in. And its fuel mileage ratings were poor compared to the latest small utes coming out in droves. Even the Chevy Equinox which has been out last couple years was north of 30mpg. Ford desperately needed a new Escape no matter how well present dated one is selling. The mid sized car segment and small ute segment are very very competitive and you can't exitst long if you don't keep up with competition and even surpass it in some ways. Just like the old generation Explorers, the dated Escape wil be around for years and years on used car lots for those who want them. In fact, the dated Escape holds up very well in resale value, although I imagine that value will drop a year or so after new one is out as it will really start looking dated. Then used Escapes will really start looking to be great value for the money. Right now a 2009 looks like a new 2012 Escape and thus great resale value on the 2009. That ends with the 2013 Escape hitting the market next year.

[Biker16]

Video

 

 

 

Ford added power doorlock buttons to C2 in response to richard's complainants about the locks on the focus.

[Biker16]

I support Biker's contention that Richard Parry-Jones was very influental. He was exceptionally well versed technically, really had a total "backside feel" for exactly what a car was doing, and formalized -- first in Europe and then in NA when he was promoted -- Ford signature handling. He did it by driving those values into the teams, and developing objective methods to measure things which might ordinarily be considered subjective. And he pushed hard to get what he wanted; with his VP stripes, he often won. I think we are seeing his legacy now.

 

But.....because Richard was a perfectionist, he sometimes pushed too hard for hardware that might have made a difference to him, but had absolutely no impact whatsoever on the customer. In other words, some of the hardware changes he pushed for were money wasted.

 

At any rate, Ford cars are certainly better drivers than they used to be.

 

I think itt may have been a mistake to place Sir Richard in charge of Global Ford Manufacturing, a decade or so ago.

 

some people should stay where they are, he was like magic in product development.

 

right now, You have robots being used to tweek the steering and handling on the New focus, Sir Richard laid the foundation for this.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

I think itt may have been a mistake to place Sir Richard in charge of Global Ford Manufacturing, a decade or so ago.

 

some people should stay where they are, he was like magic in product development.

 

right now, You have robots being used to tweek the steering and handling on the New focus, Sir Richard laid the foundation for this.

 

Not much magic in Ford of Europe profits at the moment a big loss in the last QTR, and now they are taking over the US who are very much being kept afloat in good profits on boxy F-Series & Escape sales at the moment.

 

 

New Escape will struggle against boxy SUV's like the Skoda Yeti in Europe.

 

Ford Kuga diesel average combined 47.1 MPG (39.2 US MPG)

Boxy Skoda Yeti (That has been everybody's car of the year in Europe, Auto Express, Top gear etc in UK boxy gets the No1 awards) average combined 61.4 MPG (51.1 US MPG)

Clarkson rated the boxy Yeti better off road than a boxy expensive Range Rover for less than the price of a Focus, If only Ford sold something like a boxy & as good as Yeti in Europe to buy, gotta say l would buy one from Ford in a instant.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7kEJ-pHkWA

 

 

Edited November 20, 2011 by Ford Jellymoulds

[ausrutherford]

Not much magic in Ford of Europe profits at the moment a big loss in the last QTR, and now they are taking over the US who are very much being kept afloat in good profits on boxy F-Series & Escape sales at the moment.

 

 

New Escape will struggle against boxy SUV's like the Skoda Yeti in Europe.

 

Ford Kuga diesel average combined 47.1 MPG (39.2 US MPG)

Boxy Skoda Yeti (That have been everybody's car of the year in Europe) average combined 61.4 MPG (51.1 US MPG)

Clarkson rated the boxy Yeti better than a boxy Range Rover, If only Ford sold a boxy Yeti Europe to buy gotta say l would buy one from Ford.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7kEJ-pHkWA

 

 

 

The Yeti, though I love the design, doesn't exactly set the sales on fire.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

The Yeti, though I love the design, doesn't exactly set the sales on fire.

 

It's no doing bad since it's Skoda's first attempt sales are on a massive upward trend the Yeti sales are up +19% in Europe where sales are falling. Kuga sales in contrast have fallen down -5% in contrast so far this year. Yeti is bucking the trend.

 

Boxy Escape USA sales 19,000 compared to Kuga sales 4,900 in Europe in October the way to go saleswise for Ford, bring some of that FOE loss making magic to the USA?

Edited November 20, 2011 by Ford Jellymoulds

[Hydro]

Thank God the vehicle I saw at a vehicle critique wasn't the Escape. The finished product looks great.

[RichardJensen]

in response to richard's complainants

I'm sure that I wasn't even the loudest agitator for that feature.

[silvrsvt]

Thank God the vehicle I saw at a vehicle critique wasn't the Escape. The finished product looks great.

 

But it was a Ford Product???

[probowler]

But it was a Ford Product???

I don't think they ever said, he just has a sneaking suspician. That yeti is pretty cooll.... I officially love Top Gear UK haha! The U.S. Version can blow me though.

[ausrutherford]

It's no doing bad since it's Skoda's first attempt sales are on a massive upward trend the Yeti sales are up +19% in Europe where sales are falling. Kuga sales in contrast have fallen down -5% in contrast so far this year. Yeti is bucking the trend.

 

Boxy Escape USA sales 19,000 compared to Kuga sales 4,900 in Europe in October the way to go saleswise for Ford, bring some of that FOE loss making magic to the USA?

 

The Yeti only sells around 6,000 though...

 

 

 

 

 

 

...worldwide!!!

 

And the Kuga not selling more has more to do with the interior. Why should a European buy a small interior Kuga when they can get a large interior Qq? Ford fixed that with the new one. Interior is much larger than the outgoing Kuga.

[Biker16]

I'm sure that I wasn't even the loudest agitator for that feature.

 

I just wanted to point out how the issue was addressed.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

The Yeti only sells around 6,000 though...

 

 

 

 

 

 

...worldwide!!!

 

And the Kuga not selling more has more to do with the interior. Why should a European buy a small interior Kuga when they can get a large interior Qq? Ford fixed that with the new one. Interior is much larger than the outgoing Kuga.

 

Yeti is not sold worldwide yet, it has a 6 month waiting list as they are all sold out when its new production line opens up in China in 2013 it will probably be the the worlds best seller in class. In 2011, the Yeti appeared on BBC's Top Gear programme. Presenter Jeremy Clarkson declared it to be possibly the best car in the world and used 20 minutes of the programme putting the Yeti through a number of challenges to support his point (He has tested the odd car or two in his time, a few more than you and me l bet).

 

More space in the next Escape Kuga will be a better, Ford need to do it more in other vehicles. VW are being propelled to the worlds No1 with boxy rear ends on the Golf and Polo, the Golf has more headroom/legroom front/back than the new Focus. GM are making shitloads of money with over 700,000 sales of it boxy Wuling Sunshine, and its boxy Silverado Stateside, it can't make its boring shit shaped Corsa's pay in Europe or make a profit. No1 best seller in Japan 7 years on a trot was the boxy Suzuki Wagon-R. Ford, GM, Chryslers biggest profit generators sales winners are boxy pick-ups.

 

SALES WINNERS - GOOD

 

USA Ford Escape sales winning profit generating 19,000 sales v Ford Kuga in loss making Ford of Europe 4,900 sales.

No1 Best selling SUV in USA so far in 2011 Boxy Ford Escape 206,896 profit generating sales

Japans No1 seven years on a trot, boxy Wagon R is Sales King in ricerland

 

GM's Chinese No1 massive profit generator 700,000 sales every year Wulling Sunshine is keeping GM afloat with huge profits.

 

 

USA No1 best selling van forever - E-Series has too be boxy by default, jellymoulding crew at Ford can't ruin it ha ha.

 

 

 

Worlds No1 best seller, a warm friendly design

 

 

NOT SO GOOD - SALES LOSERS COLD JELLYMOULDED PICK-UPS

Claustrophobic upsweeping lines on doors rear doors also reward you with poor rear quarter visibility. What does all the modern aerdynamic bullshitting reward you with, poor sales, 3 MPG less than a boxy Ranger, poor visibility and claustrophobic feel in the rear cab MMmm the way to go (If Ford, Chevy & Dodge started building this abortion the Mtsubishi L200 would become the new Camry overnight with pissed off Ford buyers so far the big 3 have not get succumbed to cold design, and gone for the super boring dull anonymous non-entity look yet)?

 

 

Ford Kuga diesel average combined 47.1 MPG (39.2 US MPG)

Boxy Skoda Yeti (That has been everybody's car of the year in Europe, Auto Express, Top gear etc in UK boxy gets the No1 awards) average combined 61.4 MPG (51.1 US MPG).

Ford new Kuga Escape will get a massive fuel improvements thanks to downsizing gasoline engines from 2.5 & 3.0 downsized to 1.6 and 2.0, diesel engines getting downsized from 2.0 and 2.5 down to 1.6 and 2.0 smaller more fuel efficient downsized engine technology its fantastic aerodynamics.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Ford Jellymoulds