Ford the "no" company

[Havelock]

Actually I don't like the Ranger at all and wouldn't have bought one. It was outdated, inefficient and underpowered. All that it had going for it was that it was reliable.

 

The Tacoma is inefficient as well. Compare v6 Tacoma to a v6 f150 and the 4cylinder Tacoma to the old as dirt 4cylinder ranger. Consider what a new ranger with Ford's newer engines and transmissions would get for mileage.

 

As usual you are assuming that you know what I and everyone else wants or expects in this segment and therefore you are looking at how to approach it through the eyes of history instead of looking forward.

 

Instead of trying to make a "just like the Tacoma" product to compete with the Tacoma Ford should have gone in a different direction. You can't compete with the Tacoma. It's "the" truck in the midsize truck segment. It's what the Crown Vic was to patrol cars. Its what the F150 is to fullsize trucks. Get it? You can't compete with that, stop trying.

 

Instead Ford should look at something on a unibody chassis akin to the prototype truck that Scion developed. You can look it up if you like. That way you can power it with both 4 and 6 cylinder power plants. It is still light enough to get good mpg, can carry 4 passengers and a bed with a payload that is easily more than enough for the average home owner who doesn't need the F150 level of truck capabilty by any measure. This, by the way, would also mean that you can build the vehicle in a plant where other vehicles models are made.

 

You suggest ford should look into a small unibody truck. Ford has looked at doing just that. Notice that is past tense as it was openly discussed a couple of years ago. Ford has several options for a truck below today's f150. I don't believe a choice has been made yet.

 

But as usual, you are basing your "speculation" on what was instead of what could be. Don't worry though, Toyota will probably green light the Scion prototype truck and Ford will be playing catchup once again. Not that it matters because Ford would likely hamstring their version with the DCT. lol

[RangerM]

You'll just have to forgive me if I don't have a lot of faith in the so called really smart guys that are running things. A decison to do one thing or another, follow one course of action or another, develop one product or another is not necessarilly demonstrative of the best way to do things. A lot plans are developed and implemented and they work, but that doesn't make them the best idea or even a good idea.

But the only way the "smart guys" learn is by experience. All the plans, market studies, and advertisements don't mean anything if the customer goes elsewhere.

 

Right now--and I hate to say this--Ford doesn't make much that I wouldn't largely be settling for. Doesn't mean they aren't making the right decisions, just maybe not the ones that attract me.

 

If you're buying, buy the car you like; not because it's a particular brand, but because it's what you like (and can afford).

 

When the time comes I will be. Which is exactly what the original poster should do, rather than list all the reasons that he believes Ford sucks.

[akirby]

That is just my speculation on what might be a good replacement for the Ranger and I know the first thing that a bunch of guys around here will say is "But what about using the Transit Connect." Guys, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that thing is ugly.

 

First, you're assuming that Ford's business decisions are made by a person and therefore are subject to personal bias and misinformation. If this were GM you'd be correct and possibly even with Ford pre-Mulally. How do you think we got the Imported Holden Pontiacs that failed miserably? Probably because Lutz said "make it happen". Just like the news about the diesel Cruze. I think Lt. Dan said "make it so" and now the engineers and bean counters are trying to figure out how to make it work.

 

But that's not how Ford operates. Mulally has a team of people and they make team decisions. It's a process as Richard said earlier and that process will produce good decisions way more often than not. Sometimes there isn't enough data to make a perfect decision so you have to guess and sometimes it's wrong. But when it comes to something as simple as whether to continue making a vehicle it's fairly simple: how much does it cost for us to keep it and update it and how much ROI can we expect from that investment? And then you compare it to the other projects and other options that have different investment requirements and different ROIs.

 

If you go back and read my past posts I absolutely believe Ford needs a small truck of some kind but that it doesn't necessary have to be a T6 Ranger. We already know there is something dramatic happening with the F150 from a mileage standpoint and while a super fuel efficient F series won't work for folks who want a physically smaller vehicle it will solve the issue of how to continue selling pickups if gas prices go up and I'm sure there's more profit in that than there is from bringing a new Ranger.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised to see a small unibody pickup utility of some kind. And there is no way Ford is going to announce or leak any of that information, but if we assume that they're working on SOMETHING to fit into the small/fuel efficient truck market then killing the current Ranger is the ONLY path forward.

 

Had circumstances been different (crash regulations, CAFE, etc.) then maybe they could have kept the Ranger going for another year or two until the new stuff was ready, but that wasn't the case.

 

Lastly - if Tacoma is the gold standard and you can't touch them then that leaves even LESS room for a new small pickup to be successful in a shrinking market.

 

People assume Ford has unlimited R&D funds and that's never the case. There are always more projects than money and companies have to pick and choose which projects get done and which get postponed or killed. And I'd say a super fuel efficient F series would be at the top of the list as far as ROI is concerned.

[akirby]

Right now--and I hate to say this--Ford doesn't make much that I wouldn't largely be settling for. Doesn't mean they aren't making the right decisions, just maybe not the ones that attract me.

 

Exactly. I tend to look at things from the standpoint of Ford and whether they're making the right business decisions for them rather than just looking at it from my individual perspective as a consumer.

 

I don't expect any company to make exactly what I want unless I'm willing to fund it 100%. So I'm stuck with things I don't necessarily like or things I can't get exactly but I don't blame the company because they can't possibly cater to every buyer's personal preferences.

 

Especially when the company has made such a dramatic financial turnaround in just a few years. You can't argue with that type of success.

[DearbornDerek]

I was wondering if P71 had somehow managed to infiltrate BON again.....theres some fantastic stuff on the horizon, so I would say its both, along with a dash of the "just add water" syndrome...

 

First thing that went through my head when I read the list....RWD/Panther....lol

[FordBuyer]

And yet they put the DCT in the Focus? What was it you yourself said about that idea?

 

 

 

They decided the Flex was a viable product even though its a sales failure? The same company that pronounced the sedan as "dead" just a little over ten years ago when they were selling Explorers by the truckload?

 

 

 

By the way, I liked it better when you had the Spiderpig in your posts. Good stuff.

 

 

We get it Blackhorse. You are completely and utterly down on Ford Motor Company. A dividend and investment grade in 2012 means nothing to you. You see Ford as glass half empty instead of half full. You only see the negatives and ignore the positives. Ford could sell 20,000 Focus in December and report big buck profits for the whole year of 2012 and increase the dividend and you will be focusing on the negative. We get it. AND THE FOCUS IS A POS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FordBuyer]

Exactly. I tend to look at things from the standpoint of Ford and whether they're making the right business decisions for them rather than just looking at it from my individual perspective as a consumer.

 

I don't expect any company to make exactly what I want unless I'm willing to fund it 100%. So I'm stuck with things I don't necessarily like or things I can't get exactly but I don't blame the company because they can't possibly cater to every buyer's personal preferences.

 

Especially when the company has made such a dramatic financial turnaround in just a few years. You can't argue with that type of success.

 

I don't particularly like every decision Ford makes for sure, but I have to admit........Ford does great job of knowing what they are strong in and focusing on keeping those segments and products very competitive and in some cases class leading. Ford is right to spend the big bucks on F-Series, Fusion, Escape, Explorer, Focus, and so on. As long as they keep the high volume products very current and competitive, Ford will remain a strong player. And those strong profit makers can fund some of the riskier ventures like plug-in hybrids and specialty cars like T-Bird and sport sedan Lincoln in the future.

[vision street wear 2]

Well....six of the eleven things that were listed are currently in the pipeline.

[akirby]

Well....six of the eleven things that were listed are currently in the pipeline.

 

I was going to mention that (although I wasn't 100% sure which ones) but all they'd say is "I'll believe it when I see it" or "then why aren't they advertising it or telling us about it" or some other stupid nonsense.

[BORG]

GM and Chrysler will be testing the waters with two distinctive entries in this segment, so we'll know more in 3-5 years if this market is still viable and which one has the best answer to it. If Ford does re-enter, at least they will have some insight into the market, much like the 2012 Explorer which is very tardy but very successful.

Edited December 15, 2011 by BORG

[RangerM]

I don't expect any company to make exactly what I want unless I'm willing to fund it 100%. So I'm stuck with things I don't necessarily like or things I can't get exactly but I don't blame the company because they can't possibly cater to every buyer's personal preferences.

If you're like me and willing to go to another manufacturer if it means getting what you want, then perhaps Ford will take notice. I may like (my current) Ford, but it doesn't mean I'm obliged to purchase products I may not prefer.

 

Depending upon the product (or segment), or market forces Ford may choose to adjust.

[2005Explorer]

Mulally has a team of people and they make team decisions. It's a process as Richard said earlier and that process will produce good decisions way more often than not. Sometimes there isn't enough data to make a perfect decision so you have to guess and sometimes it's wrong. But when it comes to something as simple as whether to continue making a vehicle it's fairly simple: how much does it cost for us to keep it and update it and how much ROI can we expect from that investment? And then you compare it to the other projects and other options that have different investment requirements and different ROIs

 

This group might make good decisions, but were they the group that looked at the MKT and said, "Let's build that sexy beast!" because if they were then they have made some mistakes along the way. What is even worse is they have even decided to invest millions more into giving it a facelift as it's numbers are slipping closer and closer into the 200+ a month range.

[FordBuyer]

This group might make good decisions, but were they the group that looked at the MKT and said, "Let's build that sexy beast!" because if they were then they have made some mistakes along the way. What is even worse is they have even decided to invest millions more into giving it a facelift as it's numbers are slipping closer and closer into the 200+ a month range.

 

 

With the MKT Livery version picking up where the TC left off, I would suspect that MKT numbers will pick up in coming months. I notice in Ford press release last week or so they talked about MKT limo and how they still want that business. Just as Taurus numbers are about to pick up if Ford is including PI versions in monthly Taurus numbers. Ditto for Explorer. Maybe Ford will differentiate those sales in monthy sales report, but they never did in past.

[ZanatWork]

RWD RWD RWD RWD RWD!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!

 

The only people complaining about what Ford offers right now are those who buy the used ones for a dollar and a song.

 

 

Well, sparky, maybe that's because they can't get a NEW one from Ford...can they?

 

Kind of obvious.

 

I love how they've stuck with the 'Stang, but I don't think it's unfair to be less than thrilled with a lineup that's partially based on very aged Volvo bones...and all the evolution hasn't made driver's cars out of the results.

[jpd80]

GM and Chrysler will be testing the waters with two distinctive entries in this segment, so we'll know more in 3-5 years if this market is still viable and which one has the best answer to it. If Ford does re-enter, at least they will have some insight into the market, much like the 2012 Explorer which is very tardy but very successful.

And that tells us that your perspective and expectations are not the same as Explorer buyers.

A Lincoln Aviator with the 3.7 and Ecoboost V6 for sure, but for Explorer buyers, they are not deal breakers.

 

GM is roughly four years late with their new Impala, had Lutz not interfered,

I'm pretty certain that a new Impala with AWD option would have picked up

a lot more PD sales. They might need a S/C or turbo V6 to get the last bit

but the bulk of squad cars can get by with HP V6... +300 hp is enough.

 

Chrysler/Dodge have serious issues with quality and space, until they

address both of those they will remain a bit player who get in the door

with an $18,000 car.

Edited December 15, 2011 by jpd80

[V8-X]

RWD RWD RWD RWD RWD!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!

 

The only people complaining about what Ford offers right now are those who buy the used ones for a dollar and a song.

Hmm, have purchased 4 brand new Fords (Ranger, Explorer & 2 F150s) since 1999. But like BORG said, I only purchase used.

 

5. Having a truck on it's own unique chassis is akin to creating a niche vehicle that's unprofitable, and ultimately doesn't exist. The next logical progression in your rational from you Ranger zealots is to just create a Ranger based on the F-150 chassis. In that case, why not just buy an F-150 when such a truck wouldn't be much cheaper and would have the exact same powertrain and capabilities as the entry-level F-150...

Clearly someone is out of touch on the reason many people purchase a compact or mid-size truck. Too many people don't want/need the size of the F150, nor that much capability. But they still need a truck and want that truck to be capable and fit into a parking spot in the city.

 

7. Uh... Ford Explorer... *Crickets*

Uh... the 2012 Explorer is a CUV, not a BOF SUV with true 4WD capabilities... *Crickets*

 

EDIT: And it doesn't need to be BOF. But still needs true 4WD capabilities. Not just a raised Taurus.

 

As for the rest of your list. meh. I'm not a big fan of the whole crossover craze either. I think its pretty lame. I'm just not a fan of the segment at all no matter who makes them. But Ford does seem to have put a lot of eggs in that particular basket. They're selling them though so don't expect them to suddenly change course on it.

Exactly! Ford has put too much emphasis on CUV's, like they did SUV's & trucks in the 90's. We've seen this routine from Ford before, and see how that got them into trouble.

 

The whole small pickup thing has been discussed and discussed and discussed around here. You'll never get the Ford fanboys on here to admit that Ford might need to consider a small or midsize pickup.

+1

 

Actually I don't like the Ranger at all and wouldn't have bought one. It was outdated, inefficient and underpowered. All that it had going for it was that it was reliable.

 

Instead of trying to make a "just like the Tacoma" product to compete with the Tacoma Ford should have gone in a different direction. You can't compete with the Tacoma. It's "the" truck in the midsize truck segment. It's what the Crown Vic was to patrol cars. Its what the F150 is to fullsize trucks. Get it? You can't compete with that, stop trying.

Agree & disagree.

 

The problem with the Ranger, as you stated is it was never kept relevant. Ford let it die on the vine. The Ranger used to be the #1 selling compact truck on the market for a decade or two. But we see the choices Ford made to let it die a slow death and Toyota to take over the market. Just like the domestics did with the compact/mid-size car market in the 80s.

 

Had Ford kept the Ranger relevant, it would be the Tacoma that couldn't compete against the Ranger. This is the reason the Tacoma took over the compact/mid-size truck market in the US. Because of Ford's unwillingness to update then product, while Toyota continued to improve the Tacoma. Bring the T6 to the states and I'm sure it will more than compete against the Tacoma, if not surpass the Tacoma is sales. If there is one type of vehicle Ford knows better than anything else, it's how to build a truck. The F-Series and Rangers used to be the best selling trucks out there, together. But with them letting the Ranger platform hit 20yrs old, it's no wonder the Ranger is dead. Just think where the F-Series would be if they hadn't updated it's platform since 1992?

 

Instead Ford should look at something on a unibody chassis akin to the prototype truck that Scion developed.

Um, no thank you. The Ridgeline isn't even doing as good as either the Tacoma or Ranger.

Edited December 15, 2011 by V8-X

[timmm55]

And yet they put the DCT in the Focus? What was it you yourself said about that idea?

 

 

 

How many times will you harp about this? Take it to a different dealer already! All service departments are NOT equal. The percentage of problems with DCT is relatively small. If they won't fix it, Lemon Law it. <<<how many times have you brought it in for repairs?

 

(Never mind I saw in another post you sold it. But really........How many times will you harp about this? And now that you have a Corolla will you be leaving? Hint Hint. As if Toyota hasn't had any problems with their vehicles LOL)

Edited December 15, 2011 by timmm55

[akirby]

This group might make good decisions, but were they the group that looked at the MKT and said, "Let's build that sexy beast!" because if they were then they have made some mistakes along the way. What is even worse is they have even decided to invest millions more into giving it a facelift as it's numbers are slipping closer and closer into the 200+ a month range.

 

See, that's where you're not getting it. Ford has jumped through hoops to kill things that weren't making money or didn't fit into their long term plans.

 

THEREFORE if Ford chose to do a MCE on the MKT instead of killing it that means it's either making money NOW or it's part of a long term strategy that has a positive ROI.

 

That ROI could change at any time due to poor sales or other conditions and they may well kill it later, but right now it's not a failure or it wouldn't be here.

[Fgts]

 

 

GM is roughly four years late with their new Impala, had Lutz not interfered,

I'm pretty certain that a new Impala with AWD option would have picked up

a lot more PD sales. They might need a S/C or turbo V6 to get the last bit

but the bulk of squad cars can get by with HP V6... +300 hp is enough.

 

There is no Ep-interceptor at all (hence the Caprice)and the current Impala have 300+HP, why they need a s/c?

Chrysler/Dodge have serious issues with quality and space, until they

address both of those they will remain player who get in the door

with an $18,000 car.

 

doubt Chrysler is sitting around in fact the Charger won the 2012 MSP test.

[RangerM]

The problem with the Ranger, as you stated is it was never kept relevant. Ford let it die on the vine. The Ranger used to be the #1 selling compact truck on the market for a decade or two. But we see the choices Ford made to let it die a slow death and Toyota to take over the market. Just like the domestics did with the compact/mid-size car market in the 80s.

 

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how many times Ford said the Ranger was to be updated/upgraded and kept delaying it?

[Edstock]

Bring the T6 to the states and I'm sure it will more than compete against the Tacoma, if not surpass the Tacoma is sales.

Not going to happen. Why?

 

It's like RJ said:

 

 

Nobody's doing well in this segment, and the minor players are probably not turning profits. It's a cut throat market. There's considerable pricing pressure, scant evidence that fuel prices drive growth, and a shrinking market.

Put this way: If Ford had never been in the market, it would not be worth entering.

 

The market has gotten smaller, and for what it costs to tool up to build the T-6 in the US, it just isn't profitable enough, or even at all — and it still won't fit in small parking spaces, because C-size barely fits in them.

 

 

[papilgee4evaeva]

Well, I just hopped out of a work colleagues GT Falcon, Supercharged 5.0V8 with a tune......Mmmmmmmmm

 

You can drool over FWD/AWDs all you like, that car is just sex......

We're NOT expatriating!

[silvrsvt]

 

 

 

Exactly! Ford has put too much emphasis on CUV's, like they did SUV's & trucks in the 90's. We've seen this routine from Ford before, and see how that got them into trouble.

 

 

 

The thing is that Ford totally IGNORED the car market since what 1992 when the Contour came out? They had to scramble in 1999-2000 or so because they started to see the handwriting on the wall with SUV sales and gas prices, but the changes came a bit quicker then expected with 9/11 and whatnot. The important thing is that as of now, Ford is spending money on Sedans and CUV and Trucks...they are ignoring one to spend $$$ on the other chasing profits...each car has to carry its own weight now

 

 

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how many times Ford said the Ranger was to be updated/upgraded and kept delaying it?

 

Last serious rumor I heard was about 10 years ago (!)...my dad used to work at the Edison plant (closed up in 2004 or so) and the last major update to the Ranger was in 1998 (when they got the truck) and 2001-2002 time frame was when they where supposed to get an all new truck or something with serious sheetmetal changes. I heard they where having issues with the sheetmetal stamps (who knows if this is true or not) and never got it straightened out....then 9/11 and the assorted fallout from that put the Ranger to bed...

[AGR]

How many times will you harp about this? Take it to a different dealer already! All service departments are NOT equal. The percentage of problems with DCT is relatively small. If they won't fix it, Lemon Law it. <<<how many times have you brought it in for repairs?

 

(Never mind I saw in another post you sold it. But really........How many times will you harp about this? And now that you have a Corolla will you be leaving? Hint Hint. As if Toyota hasn't had any problems with their vehicles LOL)

I couldn't find this post...but really? He sold his new Focus and bought a Corolla?? So much for me ever taking any of his opinions seriously. I love my 2012, DCT and MFT included. It is a fun to drive yet practical with the hatchback body style. I rented a 2010 Corolla last year while in SoCal, and it was very outdated in comparison. Plus it is hands down the most boring car I've ever driven.

[akirby]

I couldn't find this post...but really? He sold his new Focus and bought a Corolla?? So much for me ever taking any of his opinions seriously. I love my 2012, DCT and MFT included. It is a fun to drive yet practical with the hatchback body style. I rented a 2010 Corolla last year while in SoCal, and it was very outdated in comparison. Plus it is hands down the most boring car I've ever driven.

 

Yep - instead of taking it to another dealer or pursuing a lemon law buy-back he just traded it at a big loss for a boring corolla.