Lincoln sporty coupe?

[2b2]

its just a carry over till the new one comes out in 2-3 years...

"its JUST a carry over"

is exactly the problem imho

 

Fomoco itself might even agree with you ( = more the problem)

but

the little press coverage I've seen thinks it's a BIG improvement

and

FMC could be using the MKS+CCD to 'set the stage' for the Z

aaaaaaand fill up some dead-space hype-wise this summer

&

per the thread title,

start injecting a bit of 'sporty' into the Lincoln story

hopefully as a foreshadowing of more to come

[Torrey61]

 

 

Yes, and the reviews of the 2013 MKS with its active suspension have been really positive. The lighter MKZ should be even more nimble.

 

 

When can we expect full reviews of MKS and Taurus instead of "first drives". The cars have been on sale for a bit...

[ANTAUS]

We will probably see something on one of the mags in relation to "Battle of the American Luxury Sedans", and it'll be the new XTS and MKS, I wouldnt doubt they would throw in the 300C since it was touched up last year, so we'll see how that goes...

[BORG]

Luxury coupes don't sell well in the US so right now it's hard to see Lincoln venturing in this space with a risky ROI. They either roll their own top-hat, or work with Ford on a skin job. I suppose it depends on what happens with the next Mustang, although I highly doubt there is enough platform flexibility in the Mustang to scale it to a luxury car, especially in a market with AWD (like the CTS Coupe). But Lincoln needs a sport sedan more than it needs a Mustang and introducing a coupe before a sedan would be an obvious blunder.

Edited June 1, 2012 by BORG

[2b2]

...I highly doubt there is enough platform flexibility in the Mustang to scale it to a luxury car...

if you mean for a Continental, I'd say the GRwdP is for that.

Mustang-co-platformed cars would be 3-series-sized (sportsedan & coupe-cabrio)

&

yes, imho Lincoln needs both segments

[NickF1011]

Ford builds great Utilities, Lincoln should be using more of them from Escape, through to MKX ot a new Aviator and upgraded Navigator.

Those vehicles have more chance of changing the perception of Lincoln and increasing sales than any halo cars ever will.

 

Well, most indications are that at least 2 all-new Lincolns will be utes, but they can't be expected to appear overnight.

[silvrsvt]

I dunno a 300HP MKZ Seems like it would be pretty sporty...the power levels are near RWD cars in its price range are at...

[NickF1011]

I dunno a 300HP MKZ Seems like it would be pretty sporty...the power levels are near RWD cars in its price range are at...

 

Higher than many even. The 328i that starts at $35,000 only has 240.

[silvrsvt]

Higher than many even. The 328i that starts at $35,000 only has 240.

 

I basing vs the Lexus IS and Infiniti G sedans

[SoonerLS]

I don't see any Lincoln sport coupe or Ford T-Bird while Mulally runs things. Maybe under Fields if he takes over in a few years. Not sure if he is a gear head, but probably more of one than Mulally and more likely to green light new sporty car from some gear head faction within the company.

I wouldn't take bets on a sales guy being more of a gearhead than an engineer who's made his name and fortune at companies that design and build transportation. Whether he's a gearhead or not is really beside the point--Mulally has to be a pragmatist; he simply cannot green light projects that don't stand a reasonable chance of turning a profit.

 

Bob Lutz can afford to be a gearhead; Mulally cannot. Which of the two would you rather have sitting at the head of Ford?

Whoever takes over from Mulally will have more development money to play with and austerity won't rule as it did throughout Mulally years.

Austerity may or may not rule for his successor; if it doesn't it will only be because of the Mulally years...

Edited June 3, 2012 by SoonerLS

[Moosetang]

"Austerity" is a loaded word in today's geopolitical climate. He has streamlined and right-sized, but Ford is a business not a nation-state. Efficiency and profitability will be sought by any CEO worth their paycheck, as long as the man or woman in that spot has a brain there will have to be a business case for anything FMC decides to build.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Moosetang

[2005Explorer]

What I find ironic is that on everything has been mentioned about the MKZ, NOTHING much has been mentioned about it's driveability. Its the roof, the interior materials, the toys, clothing, modeling, traveling, window shopping, expensive coffee, lounging and luxuriating, but NOTHING about how it drives...so I'm not expecting any sportiness from that vehicle.

 

It's going to drive like a Fusion, but hopefully with a more adjustable better tuned suspension. Of course we don't know how the Fusion will drive, but probably pretty well.

Edited June 3, 2012 by 2005Explorer

[2b2]

It's going to drive like a Fusion, but hopefully with a more adjustable better tuned suspension...

It's going to drive like a Fusion, but with an adjustable intelligent suspension

probably with none of its settings identical to the Fusion's

+ the unique pushbutton interface

+ a v6 top-powerplant

+ a different body (CoG?)

+ probably completely different sound-deadening (maybe active)

+ probably different tires

+ some with the glassroof (for good or ill...handling) & none without a regular sunroof iirc

...

 

...just saying

the one thing I doN'T expect it to drive (exactly) like is a Fusion

 

 

(then there's the Nano 2.7v6&EB + 8 speed...

...year 2?)

Edited June 3, 2012 by 2b2

[2005Explorer]

It's going to drive like a Fusion, but with an adjustable intelligent suspension

probably with none of its settings identical to the Fusion's

+ the unique pushbutton interface

+ a v6 top-powerplant

+ a different body (CoG?)

+ probably completely different sound-deadening (maybe active)

+ probably different tires

+ some with the glassroof (for good or ill...handling) & none without a regular sunroof iirc

...

 

...just saying

the one thing I doN'T expect it to drive (exactly) like is a Fusion

 

 

(then there's the Nano 2.7v6&EB + 8 speed...

...year 2?)

 

Doesn't it use the same chassis and wheelbase or is the wheelbase stretched and different suspension geometry used? Some have said it will be very similar underneath compared to the Fusion while others claim it has been reworked so much it hardly even resembles the car it is based on. Sure the power plants are different and the Fusion doesn't offer as much power to separate the two, but I can't see the driving dynamics being that different other then the adjustable suspension. Sure there are the other changes you talked about, but I just can't see the MKZ not having some sort of similar feeling to the Fusion when it comes to handling, etc. If there is a huge difference then that means Ford did a pretty poor job of chassis balancing on the Fusion.

[2b2]

actually just one powerplant, the v6, is different (for now)

but the Z's body is a bit longer...

...just can't see the *physics* being close enough to come across the same.

I have no idea how reworked the unseen parts will be - guess just-imho for those who drive both, the differences will widely outweigh the similarities

 

all just imho

[Edstock]

but I can't see the driving dynamics being that different other then the adjustable suspension.

 

Active suspension is a whole new ball-game for handling and ride dynamics. Maybe if you ever get to test drive one, you'll see just why active suspension was banned in F-1. Add different chassis rubber/urethane mounting points, different springs, anti-roll bars, tires, brakes and things become very different.

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

As well as having no coupe, Lincoln has no RWD car, no sportwagon, no truly meaningful AWD system (not for anyone who has more than a mimimal understanding of AWD systems), no unique platform, no unique engine (unless you consider adding 12 cubic inches to a Ford engine unique), almost no unique paint colors, no Contiental, no flagship sedan, no sport car, and no generation of an SUV introduced during this millineum. Lincoln barely has any product built on a platform introduced during this millineum. Yet, Ford wants to market the idea that Lincoln is a luxury brand. Luxury brands currently and historically have gained their status by having superior engines and chassis which are unique from any mass-market cousins that they may have. Unique paint and fabric colors are nearly always part of the "mix". My goodness, how frugal can Ford get with their offerring of luxury when they even have to rehash a limited selection of Ford paint.

 

My dad is an ailing Lincoln fan and I have always wanted to share this with him by purchasing one. There just isn't any product in which I can justify as being worthy of the price or take any commensurate pride in owning. I want there to be one really badly, but Lincoln wants to appeal to buyers who are "more female". This appears to be code for "less knowledgeable about what luxury cars are really about and how important features like Intelligent-AWD compare to the class leading competition". Lincoln is too ashamed of I-AWD in regards to the competition to even publish any technical information about the system. Go ahead, google your brains out or visit a Lincoln dealer to try to get information.

 

Mass market, low cost platforms might carry higher profit margins and require minimal investment, in no way are these luxury items. Spraying Ford-colors of lipstick on these piggys doesn't help to change what they are. Cadillac, Audi, BMW, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, Mercedes and even Chrysler have most or all of the mentioned luxury features that Lincoln doesn't offer. This will still be true even after the MKZ comes out.

Edited June 4, 2012 by TBirdStangSkyliner

[RichardJensen]

no truly meaningful AWD system (not for anyone who has more than a mimimal understanding of AWD systems)

This is hilarious.

 

You claim that you can find out nothing about the system and also claim that it is 'not truly meaningful'.

 

How can this be?

 

In point of fact, all other AWD systems have been gradually evolving toward the full electronic control which was implemented by Ford in the iAWD predecessor almost 20 years ago.

 

The AWD system has no center diff and does not need one.

 

Center diffs are relics of mechanically activated AWD systems and serve no purpose in a system that is completely controlled by software. That some other systems still keep them is something of a mystery to me. A clutch based system can be programmed to slip to alleviate driveline windup, which is going to be an issue primarily if not exclusively at highway speeds, in which AWD will be engaged only if the driver is attempting to accelerate through a corner. Other than that, the system will be completely disengaged.

 

Of course, it will be insisted that the absence of a granny gear and the inability to 'lock in' AWD demonstrate the inadequacy of the system, but in fact they do no such thing.

 

4-Lo has no advantage outside of rock crawling. Software which continually adjusts torque distribution among all four wheels, and which prevents wheelspin through throttle control renders 4-Lo obsolete. Seriously, at this point in time, the only advantage 4-Lo provides is the pure mechanical multiplication of torque. Like the center diff, it is a relic of mechanical systems that were crude substitutes for the finely tuned software in today's systems.

 

And the ability to lock in AWD assumes that the system is incapable of recognizing the need for AWD, despite monitoring all major inputs on a split-second basis.

 

"But the Ford Explorer failed a dune run that Popular Mechanics performed"

 

Right. A pre-production/press-fleet Explorer failed to complete an unsupervised and unscientifically executed maneuver, with only the barest of details provided. Surely this, THIS, is proof that Ford is a terrible company incapable of making so much as an AWD system without hopelessly screwing it up.

 

----

 

 

 

While some may argue that an Audi, say, will be better able to cope axle deep in high plains gumbo, the difference is negligible, the odds of being put to test are practically non-existent, and the ultimate end is that it is a meaningless hypothetical invented by people who would certainly invent other meaningless hypotheticals because they've already made up their mind.

 

In short, this system could be the best that money could buy, and people like the above would find another nit to pick.

 

 

Ford, I'm happy to say, has no interest in placating the implacable, and is bent on turning billions in profit while confounding you with their 'stupidity.'

Edited June 4, 2012 by RichardJensen

[RichardJensen]

I want there to be one really badly

No. No you don't.

 

You want Ford to be GM and do stupid GM things.

 

 

Also, do you seriously expect any reasonable person to conclude that Ford's refusal to toot their horn on the exact workings of iAWD constitutes proof that it is an inferior system?

 

That's like saying, 'Sure, he says he's got a liver, but just try and get him to show it to you.'

Edited June 4, 2012 by RichardJensen

[jpd80]

No. No you don't.

 

You want Ford to be GM and do stupid GM things.

 

Bazinga.......

[ANTAUS]

Essentially from what I have read here, facebook, journalists, customers, etc, Lincoln will not be taken seriously as a luxury brand if they do not come up with their own RWD/AWD platform, thats what the consensus seems to be.

[silvrsvt]

Essentially from what I have read here, facebook, journalists, customers, etc, Lincoln will not be taken seriously as a luxury brand if they do not come up with their own RWD/AWD platform, thats what the consensus seems to be.

 

Define serious?

 

The Lexus RX (FWD/AWD) sells 10K units a month on average...thats the sales numbers of multiple RWD sedans from multiple manufactures.

 

I think the vast majority of people think because if Brand X makes a RWD car thats what Lincoln needs to do it get taken seriously....Lincoln just needs to define its own path to "greatness"...and like JP has stated over and over...lets go with Ford's strength with SUV and CUV's...and make the best Luxury ones in US to start with....

[akirby]

Essentially from what I have read here, facebook, journalists, customers, etc, Lincoln will not be taken seriously as a luxury brand if they do not come up with their own RWD/AWD platform, thats what the consensus seems to be.

 

Too many people are enamored with bench racing, comparing performance numbers on paper for vehicles that they either can't or won't actually purchase. How many AMG versions does Mercedes sell compared to the non-AMG models?

 

Lexus has several RWD models but only the IS is truly sporty and the FWD based ES and RX sales dwarf the RWD models.

 

If you want to sell luxury vehicles at a profit you need great customer service, great styling that looks luxurious and luxury amenities and finishes with adequate performance. Lincoln can do that with existing platforms and be solid and profitable within 2-4 years. Then they can go after the niche products for bragging rights if they choose to do so.

 

That said, if they could come out with a high performance vehicle or two without spending tons of money then that would certainly be nice. But not required.

[ANTAUS]

I understand all that, your preaching to the choir, Yes we all know that Lexus best models are just Camry clones, we know they are profitable, we know the majority of those sellers are FWD, I get that, you all get that, etc. Yes customer experience is important, Yes, Rainbows and unicorns about how beautiful and splendid it works for others. My comment is based from what I have repeatedly read over and over because they won't be satisfied with it. Its a segment of shock value and sometimes you have to take one for the team.

 

Which is what I'm getting to.... Sometimes the "gold digger" needs to swallow, to make sure she can bank on her new rich husband...Sometimes you gotta push granny down the stairs to make sure you get the inheritance quicker... My point is, for OTHERS to see massive changes and take the brand seriously, something in THAT regard will have to occur. And yes, some changes might not pay off at the end of the day, its a business. Numerous companies have "loss leaders" just to get someone into the store to buy their fridge, or computer, in this case mitigate your losses and keep them minimal but shock value will only wake up the industry.

 

Just think what has occured with the Lincoln line the past hm 10 years, that have gained it attention (well other than the rhetoric that it should close down)... All I'm saying is, think outside the box.

[NickF1011]

My point is, for OTHERS to see massive changes and take the brand seriously, something in THAT regard will have to occur.

 

The problem with that is, though, is that the vast majority of those "OTHERS" you refer to aren't going to buy a Lincoln no matter what they do to the brand anyway. So why "take one for the team" if is isn't going to result in any benefits of any great significance? Lincoln is [/i]already[/i] establishing a steady customer base that should see growth with revised models already in the pipeline. Lincoln needs to stick with the plan and to those "OTHERS" who thumb their nose at the brand they should just say "phooey."