jpd80 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said: Did you see the WSJ article a few days ago? Many chip producers are now faced with a coming surplus??? Recognizing that not all chips are "equal". Yeah but the coming glut is newer AV chips used in home entertainment, Asian manufacturers switched away from older automotive chips so eventually, that need will be filled but the damage has already been done. Edited January 9, 2023 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said: AK, I hear you-but if I had to bet I would say his attitude has more to do with jobs-regardless of the ethnicity of those taking "our" jobs. But as my late wife would say...."why do you care???" In this context - maybe. But the NASCAR comments had nothing to do with jobs. He even referenced World War II. If it was really about jobs then a Toyota Camry built in the US and sold in a US dealership is far more American than a Ford Maverick built in Mexico. Using the line that it’s “about where the profits go” is just an excuse to support traditional American companies like Ford. The global economy is far too complicated to single out domestic vs imports at a Corporate level. If you want to support Ford because they build the most vehicles in the US, fine. If you want to support a specific model that’s built in the US that’s just as valid IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamweasel Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 2 hours ago, akirby said: If it was really about jobs then a Toyota Camry built in the US and sold in a US dealership is far more American than a Ford Maverick built in Mexico. Except that's not true when the Maverick is loaded with NAFTA parts and the Camry is loaded with foreign parts. Can't just focus on final assembly. For every final assembly plant, there are hundreds of supplier plants supporting it. (And don't reference any AALA calculation, either, as many of the foreign OEM's use to inflate their domestic content percentage.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, akirby said: If it was really about jobs then a Toyota Camry built in the US and sold in a US dealership is far more American than a Ford Maverick built in Mexico. Actually, the Maverick is the more "American" (U.S.) product, even though Camry has a higher U.S./Canadian parts content number according to AALA. iamweasel is very knowledgeable about the limitations of AALA and pointed out a couple issues with it in the previous post. Parent company HQ location aside, what's important is that Maverick is designed and engineered primarily in the U.S., while Camry is designed and engineered primarily outside the U.S. Design/engineering is where a product like an automobile or commercial truck gets its DNA, and design/engineering contributes considerably more value to the product and to the automaker than final assembly. Edited January 9, 2023 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 1 hour ago, iamweasel said: Except that's not true when the Maverick is loaded with NAFTA parts and the Camry is loaded with foreign parts. Can't just focus on final assembly. For every final assembly plant, there are hundreds of supplier plants supporting it. (And don't reference any AALA calculation, either, as many of the foreign OEM's use to inflate their domestic content percentage.) All true but you said NAFTA not American and most of the suppliers for Maverick are in Hermosillo except for engines. I understand the parts issue - I even complained about it. But to me factory workers and supplier workers are more important than parts sourcing. Don’t forget Ford sources a lot of parts from Europe too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 47 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Parent company HQ location aside, what's important is that Maverick is designed and engineered primarily in the U.S., while Camry is designed and engineered primarily outside the U.S. Wrong. Quote The new Camry, which is on its way to dealers now, was substantially restyled and re-engineered by about 400 engineers and designers at the center in York Township. Their role illustrates the growing influence of Ann Arbor-area operations within Japan's No. 1 automaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 I apologize for contributing to this but we are way off base here. Can we get back on topic and if necessary continue this discussion elsewhere? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 1 hour ago, akirby said: I apologize for contributing to this but we are way off base here. Can we get back on topic and if necessary continue this discussion elsewhere? Thank you. The thread below could be a good place to continue discussions related to "Buy American" per what Joe771476 and Bob Rosadini shared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) So how about those 75,000 F Series sales last month, was that a one time thing or can Ford put two months in a row? They need to do something with 150,000 SD orders in the wings… Edited January 10, 2023 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 6 hours ago, akirby said: I apologize for contributing to this but we are way off base here. Can we get back on topic and if necessary continue this discussion elsewhere? That's ok. We get that you were quite understandably upset about the ballgame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 5 hours ago, SoonerLS said: That's ok. We get that you were quite understandably upset about the ballgame. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 So much for thinking no. 1 vs no. 4 made sense. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 32 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said: So much for thinking no. 1 vs no. 4 made sense. ? Honestly the way they played last night I don’t think anybody had a chance. Talk about locked and loaded. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Back to topic, Ford Authority today posts a shot of new 450 chassis test truck set up with heavy weight block. they continue to reference Super Duty .."all new cab". Huh? looks the same to me unless grill work or revised dash constitutes "new cab"?? I will say side glass looks a bit taller but that just may be an illusion. Like to see a new cab that 650-750 and E series could utilize but I'm sure that would not get Farley any good press vs more EV hype? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 40 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said: Back to topic, Ford Authority today posts a shot of new 450 chassis test truck set up with heavy weight block. they continue to reference Super Duty .."all new cab". Huh? looks the same to me unless grill work or revised dash constitutes "new cab"?? I will say side glass looks a bit taller but that just may be an illusion. Like to see a new cab that 650-750 and E series could utilize but I'm sure that would not get Farley any good press vs more EV hype? Here it is;2023 Ford F-450 Super Duty Chassis Cab XLT_ Photos.html2023 Ford F-450 Super Duty Chassis Cab XLT_ Photos.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisgb Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 34 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said: Here it is;2023 Ford F-450 Super Duty Chassis Cab XLT_ Photos.html2023 Ford F-450 Super Duty Chassis Cab XLT_ Photos.html Did't I read somewhere that the new SDs were going to use the same cab as the F-150? So maybe "all new" to the SD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Chrisgb said: Did't I read somewhere that the new SDs were going to use the same cab as the F-150? So maybe "all new" to the SD. I forgot about that....back to the pre-2000 era??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 5 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: Back to topic, Ford Authority today posts a shot of new 450 chassis test truck set up with heavy weight block. they continue to reference Super Duty .."all new cab". Huh? looks the same to me unless grill work or revised dash constitutes "new cab"?? I will say side glass looks a bit taller but that just may be an illusion. Like to see a new cab that 650-750 and E series could utilize but I'm sure that would not get Farley any good press vs more EV hype? 4 hours ago, Chrisgb said: Did't I read somewhere that the new SDs were going to use the same cab as the F-150? So maybe "all new" to the SD. Super Duty has shared the F-150 cab since the 2017 redesign. That F-150 cab got massaged (including new door skins and cabin) for its 2021 redesign. What we saw in the 2023 Super Duty was this same “massaging”, and now it seems we’re seeing it also apply to chassis cab models. Whether they finally transition to this shared cab on the Heavy Trucks 650 and 750 remains to be seen. Personally, I’m not sure why you’d want to keep making a separate (older) cab for that low of volume on the heavy trucks even though they are a cheaper steel cabin, but I’m sure they have their reasons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying68 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 32 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Super Duty has shared the F-150 cab since the 2017 redesign. That F-150 cab got massaged (including new door skins and cabin) for its 2021 redesign. What we saw in the 2023 Super Duty was this same “massaging”, and now it seems we’re seeing it also apply to chassis cab models. Whether they finally transition to this shared cab on the Heavy Trucks 650 and 750 remains to be seen. Personally, I’m not sure why you’d want to keep making a separate (older) cab for that low of volume on the heavy trucks even though they are a cheaper steel cabin, but I’m sure they have their reasons. Tooling is already paid for and amortized out on the older cab. Switching to a newer cab would mean new tooling and redesign as the 650/750 aren't dimensionally the same as a 450/550/600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearheadGrrrl Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Heck, most of the 30 year old Econoline is still in production and the C Series hung around for over 30 years... The "Legacy" F650/750 is just gettin' goin'!(LOL) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 23 hours ago, Flying68 said: Tooling is already paid for and amortized out on the older cab. Switching to a newer cab would mean new tooling and redesign as the 650/750 aren't dimensionally the same as a 450/550/600. except they managed to put the previous Super Duty cab on the heavy trucks. Why couldn’t they do it now? it wouldn’t mean new tooling if they share the same cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 I think the current F-150/Super Duty cab would be an improvement on the 650/750, it's more roomy and the visibility is a bit better. There would be some costs associated with making that change, but there would be some savings as well. No idea if Ford will ever make that change on the 650/750, they might be planning on not making any changes to those trucks and just selling them as long as the demand is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearheadGrrrl Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 Here in the "rust belt" the newer aluminum cab would be a competitive advantage. The Freightliner M2 and Paccar conventional have aluminum cabs and that's one of the reasons they've been taking sales from Ford and International. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 12 hours ago, rmc523 said: except they managed to put the previous Super Duty cab on the heavy trucks. Why couldn’t they do it now? it wouldn’t mean new tooling if they share the same cab. Part of Ford’s do nothing/ least number of changes to avoid new costs. Look at 7.3, they stuck it on front of the existing 6R140 used with the 6.8 V10 even though they had a string 10AT available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 7 hours ago, jpd80 said: Part of Ford’s do nothing/ least number of changes to avoid new costs. Look at 7.3, they stuck it on front of the existing 6R140 used with the 6.8 V10 even though they had a string 10AT available. And add the decision to not offer the 7.3 with an air brake option. Supposedly 7.3 is such a heat generator, air piping would be a problem. I would imagine the Ford Pro Division -or whatever the name "du jour" is-has a "director of excuses". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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