Is Ford Dropping the Taurus?

[BORG]

Is Ford looking at transference from the Ford Brand "Supersegment" to a Lincoln "Supersegment"?

Several years ago, compact luxury was considered a novlty but I think that the MKC is opening doors that more compacts can filter through,

A compact SUV for around $35,000 seems plausible, so what about a Mustang V6 Coupe starting at around $32,000 and a V8 for $38,000?

Or, would it be so bad to have an MK-Focus sedan with 1.6 EB engine, a Titanium trim +$8000 car on sale starting at $33,000?

 

I know this all sounds like changing Lincoln into a high series Mercury but wouldn't that be the objective of Ford to increase Lincoln's sales

in new markets that are more relevant to today's buyers, what would be wrong with aspiring to see Lincoln with a fuller show room?

 

Lincoln is pretty focused on a core customer, I doubt a Focus and Mustang makes sense. And I don't think Lincoln could get away with a Mustang/Focus variant without drawing allot of attention to its Ford origin. Lincoln could probably do well with a version of the Focus, as Buick has done with the Verano, but it won't be good for their reputation as a luxury marque in which this segment is populated by cars like the 3-series, ATS, A3, etc.

Edited March 25, 2013 by BORG

[Deanh]

Lincoln is pretty focused on a core customer, I doubt a Focus and Mustang makes sense. And I don't think Lincoln could get away with a Mustang/Focus variant without drawing allot of attention to its Ford origin.

couldnt agree more....the only way they could adress those segments would be if they had become firmly established, AND have an EARNED reputation for excellence.....maybe in a few years.....

[rmc523]

summink tells me the upper segment will ultimately be adressed, not right now but it will be......and IMO will be an eye-opener....STILL think the 5.0 engine is underutilized....

 

I've always thought that - it's obviously not a priority right now. The current priority for Lincoln - just as Ford did a few years ago - is to rebuild and strengthen the core part of the lineup (so for Lincoln, the MKX, MKZ, and adding an MKC and MKExplorer, IMO). Once that work is done and the company is more healthy, I've always thought that we'd see a big flagship sedan from Lincoln a few years down the road.

[2b2]

...so what about a Mustang V6 Coupe starting at around $32,000 and a V8 for $38,000?

Or, would it be so bad to have an MK-Focus sedan with 1.6 EB engine, a Titanium trim +$8000 car on sale starting at $33,000?

really?

pricing the *R*W*D* v6 LincStang under a 4cyl MkFocus??

[papilgee4evaeva]

and in that light an Audi Q7 is a $$$$ Volkswagon Toureg correct.....

Mostly correct.

Porsche Cayenne = VW Touareg

Q7 = stretched VW Touraeg

and an A4 is a VW.....

Incorrect, at least ever since 2006. A4 and Passat share nothing underneath anymore.

Now, if you had said A3...

[glyphmon]

have to agree with that, I dont think the car is for snobs, but for people that want to look a tad different WITHOUT being veiwed as overly ostentatious.....

 

That's how I always felt (and still do) about Mercury.

[Edstock]

IIRC, the Cayenne is mostly aluminum alloy, while the Touareg is steel. I don't know if the Audi is alloy or steel.

 

Mostly correct.
Porsche Cayenne = VW Touareg

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

I don't know if it is a good idea for Lincoln to focus on core customers, when such are almost an extinct species. As far as dropping the Tuarus, they need to do that to the belt-line by at least 4-6 inches. I don't see the need for a FWD car of this size and price. No matter how much you up-line and upsize a banana slug, you still have something soft, smelly and not much like steak or lobster. The Fusion and the competitions RWD/AWD platforms just don't seem to leave much space for this car.

[papilgee4evaeva]

IIRC, the Cayenne is mostly aluminum alloy, while the Touareg is steel. I don't know if the Audi is alloy or steel.

IMO, material is immaterial. (how's that for a paradox?)

We all would say that the Phaeton (steel) was/is much the same car as the contemporary A8 (aluminum).

[2b2]

That's how I always felt (and still do) about Mercury.

 

[silvrsvt]

I don't know if it is a good idea for Lincoln to focus on core customers, when such are almost an extinct species. As far as dropping the Tuarus, they need to do that to the belt-line by at least 4-6 inches. I don't see the need for a FWD car of this size and price. No matter how much you up-line and upsize a banana slug, you still have something soft, smelly and not much like steak or lobster. The Fusion and the competitions RWD/AWD platforms just don't seem to leave much space for this car.

 

Lincoln isn't focusing on the blue hair set...its aiming at people who want a luxury car without being ostentatious about it.

 

The reason the Taurus has such a high belt line is because of its CUV roots with Volvo platform its based off of. I'll be the first one to agree with you...I was walking around a SHO at the dealership and the damn trunk was at the same level as my waist and I'm 6'2! Lots of sheetmetal to wax :p

[NickF1011]

Let's face it...the real growth is in the small and medium CUV market along with the mid sized sedan which thank god the new MKZ is which should do well. If Lincoln could get its MKC and MKExplorer out in timely manner, Lincoln will be stabilized and have lots of time to figure out what to do with larger sedan segment and any other lower volume niche. And I still strongly believe that every new Lincoln model should have a hybrid offering. It shouldn't end with the MKZ. Luxury buyers like great fuel economy also. Paupers aren't buying Tesla S Models with premium batteries.

Yes, the larger potential for growth is in small and medium CUV's, which is why the MKC is already coming. But there is still a mighty lot of room for profit in large sedans like the MKS which will likely sell for much higher prices than most MKC's will. It's not a priority segment for growth but it is an established market that is likely still quite profitable for Lincoln so long as the MKS can continue to share mechanicals with a Ford stablemate.

 

As for fuel economy, the 2.0 EB Taurus fuel economy is pretty darn close to the 2.0 EB Fusion's. No reason that wouldn't translate to the MKS should they offer that engine in the future, which seems likely given than it is available in the MKZ already. Add in that it's quite likely that any redesigned Taurus/MKS would shed some weight, the fuel economy situation should only improve further. It's not like they are fuel hogs as it is now.

 

Lastly, let's not kid ourselves. Tesla buyers aren't buying them because they want/demand good fuel economy. They are buying them because they are image conscious and want a neat expensive toy to show off how ecologically responsible they are.

Edited March 26, 2013 by NickF1011

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

Lincoln isn't focusing on the blue hair set...its aiming at people who want a luxury car without being ostentatious about it.

 

The reason the Taurus has such a high belt line is because of its CUV roots with Volvo platform its based off of. I'll be the first one to agree with you...I was walking around a SHO at the dealership and the damn trunk was at the same level as my waist and I'm 6'2! Lots of sheetmetal to wax :p

I realize that they are moving away from the blue hairs, but I think that Lincoln needs a much better definition of their target market than people who want incognito luxury. The ford titanium lines fit whatever that is just fine, and so does the higher trim levels of nearly every model currently in production, well except for VW who is sure that people want to top out their highly engineered, driver's cars with "leatherette".

 

I'm not so sure that the Mythical Bull is s strong as Mullally thought it was about five years ago. It would be interesting to see the way questions about the nameplate's image was worded in those surveys. We are getting into the time period where the heart of today's buyers were in ther early to mid teenage years the last time that Ford introduced a desirable, fresh Taurus. If you grew up with a way obsolete, ovoid model, you probably aren't anxious to commit to five years of payments to bring a new one home to your family. Mullally recognized that any McDonnell Douglas carrying the "DC" name was handicapped with perceptions. Maybe the Taurus is getting close to this.

 

Some regulars here are so anxious to see Ford leave any segment which is declining. The large sedan segment is the poster child for this right now. At least with small pickups and mid size SUV's (not CUV's), the competition is down to mostly Toyota. With large sedans there are more players and they have recently redesigned models and less decades of being left to wither with peculiar and obsolete designs. This car has been one or both of those since the first couple of years of the 1990's.

Edited March 27, 2013 by TBirdStangSkyliner

[akirby]

Some regulars here are so anxious to see Ford leave any segment which is declining.

 

We're not anxious - we're just trying to explain Ford's rationale for making those kinds of decisions. And we don't want Ford to be in a position where they could go bankrupt like they almost did in 2008.

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

We're not anxious - we're just trying to explain Ford's rationale for making those kinds of decisions. And we don't want Ford to be in a position where they could go bankrupt like they almost did in 2008.

I don't think anyone here wants to see Ford make dumb financial decisions and to become another wing of the Obama administration. There is a fine balance between strong quarterly profits and creating a company that can weather changes and compete for many decades. Only contesting growing markets with minimized investment/maximized profit models can quite quickly paint a company into being an undesirable producer of fleet devices. Throwing large money at every conceivable niche can lead to destruction, too. Ford seems to go from one paradigm to the other.

Edited March 27, 2013 by TBirdStangSkyliner

[akirby]

Ford is investing more now than they ever have. Worldwide they have A, B, C, C/D and D cars. Mustang. Ranger, F series, Transit, Transit Connect. Ecosport, Escape/Kuga, Explorer, Flex. C-max. Hybrids, plug-in hybrids, diesels. S-max/Grand C-max. Plus all the Aussie stuff.

 

Just because they don't sell everything in the U.S. doesn't mean they don't have them available if needed.

[SoonerLS]

I don't think anyone here wants to see Ford make dumb financial decisions and to become another wing of the Obama administration. There is a fine balance between strong quarterly profits and creating a company that can weather changes and compete for many decades. Only contesting growing markets with minimized investment/maximized profit models can quite quickly paint a company into being an undesirable producer of fleet devices. Throwing large money at every conceivable niche can lead to destruction, too. Ford seems to go from one paradigm to the other.

BINGO!

 

Oh, wait, we weren't playing Buzzword Bingo? Never mind...

[Kris Kolman]

Unannounced but you can bet it will be an extension of CD4 Edge with SUV roof and back.

S-Max Morphs into Edge, Galaxy morphs into Explorer..

 

My response was to Kris above mentioning PI investment and PDs requiring more retraining,

I doubt that because the vehicles would still be FWD/AWD similar characteristics as today's

pair but with increased fuel economy.

 

I work with the federal government... I don't think people understand that these large fleets have much, much different market conditions than the rest of us. The federal or large city law enforcement fleet is a unique entity. One where the equipment installed within the car often approach the cost of the vehicle they are mounted in, and in some special cases many times more. That with the size of fleets and the constant use they have to invest in maintenance garages which lots of platform specific equipment. And finally the way the congressional authorization process works there is an incentive to drive the vehicles into the ground vs. replacing them when they start showing a bit of wear. Although not entirely applicable it should never be forgotten that some pilots are flying planes and helicopters that their grandfathers flew (B-52s and H-1s). A little closer example is that the Special Service and FBI are still rolling around with Suburbans about to be 2 generations old. Ford has dedicated a lot of resources, far more than any other company, focusing on the law enforcement market. As such Ford knows the specific PI/PU details better than me... But my experience says 3 or so years is far too quick of a model change over without major blow back.

[Kris Kolman]

Sorry... Double post

Edited March 29, 2013 by Kris Kolman

[jpd80]

I work with the federal government... I don't think people understand that these large fleets have much, much different market conditions than the rest of us. The federal or large city law enforcement fleet is a unique entity. One where the equipment installed within the car often approach the cost of the vehicle they are mounted in, and in some special cases many times more. That with the size of fleets and the constant use they have to invest in maintenance garages which lots of platform specific equipment. And finally the way the congressional authorization process works there is an incentive to drive the vehicles into the ground vs. replacing them when they start showing a bit of wear. Although not entirely applicable it should never be forgotten that some pilots are flying planes and helicopters that their grandfathers flew (B-52s and H-1s). A little closer example is that the Special Service and FBI are still rolling around with Suburbans about to be 2 generations old. Ford has dedicated a lot of resources, far more than any other company, focusing on the law enforcement market. As such Ford knows the specific PI/PU details better than me... But my experience says 3 or so years is far too quick of a model change over without major blow back.

A more appropriate example would be how Ford simplified the changeover between Crown Victoria and Taurus PI,

the new PI was designed to adapt a lot of the existing CV police equipment to it so while CD4 will be a different platform,

you can bet that lessons learned from D3 PIs will transfer directly to the next generation of vehicles.

[silvrsvt]

As such Ford knows the specific PI/PU details better than me... But my experience says 3 or so years is far too quick of a model change over without major blow back.

The PI and PIU aren't going anywhere...for a while. The new Taurus and MKS would be mixed in with the Fusion Production at Flat Rock or even at Oakville (Edge/MKX are built there and the Flex and MKT aren't long for this world)

[jpd80]

The PI and PIU aren't going anywhere...for a while. The new Taurus and MKS would be mixed in with the Fusion Production at Flat Rock or even at Oakville (Edge/MKX are built there and the Flex and MKT aren't long for this world)

Or CAP switches to CD4 in late 2015....

[silvrsvt]

Or CAP switches to CD4 in late 2015....

 

I don't see that happening with the Explorer getting its first refresh then. The Explorer is going to be around till 2018 or so at the least.

[jpd80]

I don't see that happening with the Explorer getting its first refresh then. The Explorer is going to be around till 2018 or so at the least.

So you think that the Explorer will go unrefreshed for five years (2011-2016)

Good luck with that...

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

Yes, the larger potential for growth is in small and medium CUV's, which is why the MKC is already coming. But there is still a mighty lot of room for profit in large sedans like the MKS which will likely sell for much higher prices than most MKC's will. It's not a priority segment for growth but it is an established market that is likely still quite profitable for Lincoln so long as the MKS can continue to share mechanicals with a Ford stablemate.As for fuel economy, the 2.0 EB Taurus fuel economy is pretty darn close to the 2.0 EB Fusion's. No reason that wouldn't translate to the MKS should they offer that engine in the future, which seems likely given than it is available in the MKZ already. Add in that it's quite likely that any redesigned Taurus/MKS would shed some weight, the fuel economy situation should only improve further. It's not like they are fuel hogs as it is now.Lastly, let's not kid ourselves. Tesla buyers aren't buying them because they want/demand good fuel economy. They are buying them because they are image conscious and want a neat expensive toy to show off how ecologically responsible they are.

 

By my score companies have been trying to make a go of it selling large FWD luxury sedans since at least when Errett Cord hit the scene in the 1920's. I can only think of one company that has had any success with producing sustained profits in the endeavor.