fordmantpw Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 ...anything I say... I disagree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) From here it appeared that Ford's idea of a dedicated Hybrid (C-Max) was brilliant, until their bonehead decision to use a loop hole and use the Fusion Hybrids EPA was exposed. Ford's dedicated Hybrid vehicle was selling like hot cakes, journalists reviews were full of praise, comparo's against the Prius tin cans had the C-Max blowing them away. Then the gig was up and Ford's dedicated Hybrid's credibility is now severely damaged. It is no wonder sales have tanked. Consumers are not that stupid. inaccurate, the scribes didnt stop loving the car, and the downturn has nothing to do with a purported "scandal'...which IMO is only being blown out of proportion by Toyota lovers...FACT...theres a LARGE % of owners getting the mileage, some moreso..but they get swept under the rug because happiness doesnt make good juicy gossipy negetive press. FACT, Fords has basically STOPPED advertoisng the vehicle completely...the car NEEDS campaigning along with a gas price spike, nothing more nothing less....no, consumers arent that stupid, but the Prius has something the C-max sorely lacks....familiarity...once advertising came to a screeching halt the new kid on the block gets forgotten. Edited April 25, 2014 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 inaccurate, the scribes didnt stop loving the car, and the downturn has nothing to do with a purported "scandal'...which IMO is only being blown out of proportion by Toyota lovers...FACT...theres a LARGE % of owners getting the mileage, some moreso..but they get swept under the rug because happiness doesnt make good juicy gossipy negetive press. FACT, Fords has basically STOPPED advertoisng the vehicle completely...the car NEEDS campaigning along with a gas price spike, nothing more nothing less....no, consumers arent that stupid, but the Prius has something the C-max sorely lacks....familiarity...once advertising came to a screeching halt the new kid on the block gets forgotten. they said the same thing about the panther too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertlane Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I'm wondering if and how the Ford S-MAX will tie into this equation in relation to size, etc.? Would this product fit into North America's product line up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 they said the same thing about the panther too. when?...the panther was an antiquated dinosaur.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 personally I think Ford missed the boat on not offering the hybrid drivetrain in the new Transit connect...they would not have been able to keep up with demand from a commercial standpoint and that would have also trickled into retail passenger van sales...obviously where they are manufactured may be a huge reason...but MAN, that has Cha-Ching written all over it. I agree, every florist and taxi company would have gotten them and paid a good premium to get them - the running costs would have been so much lower. Non -hybrid taxi's in big city are slowly disappearing as they are replaced. The Camry Hybrid is the Taxi of choice of Chicago drivers now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 when?...the panther was an antiquated dinosaur.... The panther Mafia would say. "all the panther needed was more advertising and then more people would buy it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictor Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I believe that the 2014 Transit Connect will be available in a CNG/LP version. Low emissions for the city environment. I would be interested in seeing a comparison in cost per mile and emissions between a hybrid and the CNC/LG vehicles http://www.greencarcongress.com/2013/09/20130924-ford.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I believe that the 2014 Transit Connect will be available in a CNG/LP version. Low emissions for the city environment. I would be interested in seeing a comparison in cost per mile and emissions between a hybrid and the CNC/LG vehicles http://www.greencarcongress.com/2013/09/20130924-ford.html no, its a CNG prep package with hardened intake and exaust valves, its up to the consumer to get the CNG conversion done...and last i looked that runs upwards of $10000.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 The panther Mafia would say. "all the panther needed was more advertising and then more people would buy it." and after they put the pipe down one may ask about drivetrains, antiquated suspension, styling and the fact that they ONLY appealed to clientel over 65 years old and municipalities...............check sales numbers Biker, we were down to less than 2 a month.......THATS why the car was killed....the Panther Mafia cant deal with reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 The panther Mafia would say. "all the panther needed was more advertising and then more people would buy it." at the time they pulled the plug they had $5000 rebates, and even THAT didnt help.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 From here it appeared that Ford's idea of a dedicated Hybrid (C-Max) was brilliant, until their bonehead decision to use a loop hole and use the Fusion Hybrids EPA was exposed. Ford's dedicated Hybrid vehicle was selling like hot cakes, journalists reviews were full of praise, comparo's against the Prius tin cans had the C-Max blowing them away. Then the gig was up and Ford's dedicated Hybrid's credibility is now severely damaged. It is no wonder sales have tanked. Consumers are not that stupid. I wouldn't really say the C-Max was ever selling "like hot cakes". I mean its absolute best month was what, somewhere around 6000 units? Certainly better than now, but nothing spectacular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 The panther Mafia would say. "all the panther needed was more advertising and then more people would buy it." Eh, the difference is that the C-Max is still a mostly modern, up-to-date vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I wouldn't really say the C-Max was ever selling "like hot cakes". I mean its absolute best month was what, somewhere around 6000 units? Certainly better than now, but nothing spectacular. actually, we couldnt keep them in stock and had to revert to dealer trading...it may be a california thing im not sure...but sales have slowed significantly since I noticed an absense of marketing...oh, and now all the HOV stickers have been util;ized regarding the plug ins, now people are being put on a waiting list.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 no, its a CNG prep package with hardened intake and exaust valves, its up to the consumer to get the CNG conversion done...and last i looked that runs upwards of $10000.............. What about the CNG vehicle system Ford does for fleet customers, customer orders vehicle, dealer places order, Ford builds and transfers to approved CNG fitter, vehicle delivered to dealer, dealer delivers to customer. Not saying that makes it any cheaper but easing the path to CNG vehicles is almost as good as Ford doing them itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) I wouldn't really say the C-Max was ever selling "like hot cakes". I mean its absolute best month was what, somewhere around 6000 units? Certainly better than now, but nothing spectacular. Considering past Ford total Hybrid vehicles (Fusion, Escape, MKZ) sales being in the range of 25,000 yearly, selling 4,000 to 6,000 units monthly of just one of its Hybrids, in that context I'd say the C-Max Hybrid was selling like hot cakes. MAP was running full speed to keep pace with C-Max demand,for a Ford Hybrid,a Ford Hybrid. I found that to be quite amazing and I am sure far exceeded Ford,s expectations. I'm just saying it appeared that Hybrid customers approved of this new Ford Hybrid, and by a mere coincidence sales fell off the same time Ford announced the revised EPA numbers. Now if they pulled all marketing as well, that sure would not help down the road sales. Edited April 26, 2014 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Has anybody charted the deviation in C-Max sales vs. the hybrid market as a whole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) Has anybody charted the deviation in C-Max sales vs. the hybrid market as a whole? I have this from Autoblog green.com....LINK Edited April 26, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlRozzi Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 In all honesty, does Ford really need a dedicated hybrid model? I recall back when the C-Max was being discussed for this market I thought a non-hybrid version would sell well. I'll bet the C-Max could make a place for itself as a Focus wagon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictor Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 The question I have looking at the sales chart is there a certain component supply that limits sales to ~6000 units per month, and if so , is it more profitable to sell Fusions then C maxs, hence the lack of advertising support for the C max? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transitman Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) It would sell better if it looked better and had more tech options. It is a basic transportation car. Like this? Edited April 26, 2014 by transitman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) One thing people may have missed is that Ford has diverted hybrid production to more MKZ hybrids, so those power trains normally going into C-Max now turn up in the ~1400 MKZ hybrid monthly sales. Being able to change product as a response to changing market demands is essential. When new versions of Focus and Escape arrive, I have a hunch that C-Max sales will come back, the super segment has a certain "crop rotation" feel to it depending where incentives are going. And I agree with Deanh, a great opportunity was missed to deliver Transit connect hybrid and energi, both as commercials and passenger vehicles. Such a move would have cultivated new sales in markets not currently being covered by Ford. Edited April 27, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) I don't think Transit Connect hybrid/Energi would connect (pun intended) with the commercial market due to the loss of capacity (especially Energi) from the battery pack. As the owner of a C-Max Energi, I can say from my day to day usage that the single largest improvement Ford could make for this vehicle class is to quit adapting an existing chassis to the task, and design a bespoke chassis for this application. I don't know if this is feasible from an engineering perspective, but if it were possible to sink engineering cost into designing a single chassis section that would carry the batteries (ala Tesla and Volt) out of the way of the passenger and "luggage" portion of the vehicle, and this section could scale to cover both the C and C/D vehicles, it would really improve the vehicles overall. I can understand why Ford adapted the existing C chassis (to control costs) for this iteration of the family of hybrids (although I guess the Fusion/MKZ required their own specific adaptions), but for the next gen vehicles, I think it's critical (if Ford is serious about this segment) to address the packaging of the batteries. To do so would remove the most obvious difference that the random consumer can observe, and presumably would then allow Ford to evolve/develop the design over subsequent generations of the chassis. Edited April 27, 2014 by Harley Lover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveTaurus Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I have this from Autoblog green.com....LINK Why ain't the Nissan, Infinite Hybrids included? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Why ain't the Nissan, Infinite Hybrids included? Because they don't pay Autobloggreenguide money? Infiniti don't split hybrid sales from regular Q50, Q70 and QX60 Here's the link to help you on your quest....LINK There's probably others missing too.... Edited April 28, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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