pictor Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) I wonder how many Wrangler Unlimited (4Door) buyers are "Hard Core Jeep" buyers? Just back from the Autoshow and the Wrangler Unlimited is now the front runner to replace my Escape. If there were a Bronco it would be my first choice. The new Edge looks great. If I can wait it would probably be my first choice. It annoys me that the only new Edge was locked. 2016 Explorer looks great, GT in Silver/Gray is pure sex. Two years ago we rented a Wrangler on Kauaii, we disliked the jarring ride, the leaky roof and overall road noise experience. On our most recent trip we rented an escape se. They tried to talk us into "upgrading" to a wrangler for $15/day more. The escape was quiet, quick and comfortable and was able to take us everywhere we wanted to go with almost 30 mpg. We enjoyed the vehicle so much that we replaced our 2007 edge with a 2015 Escape Tit over the weekend. While the wrangler can go places the escape can't, here in New England that kind of capability is rarely needed with the exception of some those individuals who like to explore the logging roads of northern New England.As an aside, we took delivery of the Escape during the inception of one of our many snow events. My wife and I both felt that the new escape handled the snow even better then our edge. We replaced the Edge with the smaller Escape because my wife felt uncomfortable driving such large vehicle as a daily commuter with only one occupant. The Escape gives us the towing capacity we need in a smaller and more fuel efficient package. Edited February 16, 2015 by pictor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 ... Escape Tit When Janet Jackson had one of these it was called a wardrobe malfunction. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 http://www.autoblog.com/2015/02/13/help-make-lego-icon-bronco-reality/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 When Janet Jackson had one of these it was called a wardrobe malfunction. Boo Hiss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBirdStangSkyliner Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) So, according to you, 100% of all Wrangler buyers are 100% happy with 100% of everything on a Wrangler, and everything on the Wrangler should be copied? Let's face it: The Wrangler is a woefully inadequate daily driver, even by *MUSTANG* standards....... Never a truer word has been written, Richard. The Wrangler is actually far less comfortable for a three hour long summer road trip than the worst motorcycle you can buy for the same purpose. I went to Glacier Park last summer in a Wrangler, and then a couple of weekends later rode the same route on a dual purpose, thumper that had no wind protection. The Jeep ride was far louder and rougher, and it seemed like the trip would never end. The problem is that people who buy Wranglers don't factor comfort or usability into their purchase even one iota. My extended family in Colorado and Arizona could care less with the dozen or so they own. The people in base towns where I've lived could care less, some just want to be seen in a Wrangler. I believe there is a good market for a vehicle with offroad chops, with the added ability to better facilitate other activities, while giving more on-road function. That is a far different market than the Wrangler, which is and will be the king of its own narrow world. Edited February 16, 2015 by TBirdStangSkyliner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 We enjoyed the vehicle so much that we replaced our 2007 edge with a 2015 Escape Tit over the weekend. Congrats! I'd love to replace my 2003 Escape with an Escape, as its been the best vehicle I've ever owned, but unfortunately the style of the new Escape is not for me. We sat in one at the Autoshow, and my wife does not like the interior either. Its a nice vehicle, just not for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I love my 08 Escape, the traction control is fantastic on the ice. Ford did good, and I imagine the newer ones are even better. While the Bronco will cut through the snow like a champ, when it comes to driving on the actual road.... the Escape wins hands down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) So, according to you, 100% of all Wrangler buyers are 100% happy with 100% of everything on a Wrangler, and everything on the Wrangler should be copied? Let's face it: The Wrangler is a woefully inadequate daily driver, even by *MUSTANG* standards. Ford owns a company in Brazil that engineers all-terrain vehicles. They have the institutional intelligence to build off-road vehicles. Who's to say that there isn't a market for a more livable but still off-road capable vehicle? I mean, you're insisting that a 'real' Jeep competitor needs removable doors and a soft top, etc. What if it doesn't? What if Ford can sell 100k hard top/sealed door off road vehicles to people who live in the snowbelt and who do *not* like driving Wranglers in winter? "But, then it won't be as capable as a Jeep!!" I hear you say The people that use 100% of a Wrangler's capability will not buy a different vehicle, so there is absolutely *no* need to cater to them, or even concern yourself with what they think of this vehicle. The current Jeep Wrangler is not as you say "a woefully inadequate daily driver" I own one do you? I have had several Jeeps, Broncos and one IH Scout II. IF Ford is going to re-enter this market they should make the investment to do it right, not cobble something quick and dirty off of an existing platform and call it a Bronco. They did it right before with the original well respected Bronco and built it with only mechanical upgrades for 11 years. At that time the market was much smaller than today. The original Bronco had a removable hard top, soft top and pickup half top options why not do it again. Many here have been clamoring for a small Ford truck. In a utility it becomes a 3-in-1 vehicle custom fit to the buyer's needs/wants. Removable doors are not required on a new Bronco. You claim a soft top option is not needed, well cancel the Mustang convertible again. I'm talking about an American designed and built utility for the American market first, if it can be sold in other less profitable markets that's okay. But don't dump some Suzuki Samurai clone Troller here. You preach about the "business case" for a vehicle well let's see Ford utility total 2014 sales results: TOTAL = 693,524 (20,655 of these were the fleet Police utilities) Jeep Wrangler = 175,328 The Wrangler came in third in the Jeep line behind the Grand Cherokee and Cherokee. TOTAL Jeep brand sales for 2014 = 692,348 So replace the Flex with the Bronco. Other manufacturers looked at the successful Mustang formula and jumped in the game to compete with vehicles that are very capable yet not the same. But do a new Bronco right from the ground up or stay off the field. Edited February 17, 2015 by F250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 The current Jeep Wrangler is not as you say "a woefully inadequate daily driver" I own one do you? I have had several Jeeps, Broncos and one IH Scout II. IF Ford is going to re-enter this market they should make the investment to do it right, not cobble something quick and dirty off of an existing platform and call it a Bronco. They did it right before with the original well respected Bronco and built it with only mechanical upgrades for 11 years. At that time the market was much smaller than today. The original Bronco had a removable hard top, soft top and pickup half top options why not do it again. Many here have been clamoring for a small Ford truck. In a utility it becomes a 3-in-1 vehicle custom fit to the buyer's needs/wants. Removable doors are not required on a new Bronco. You claim a soft top option is not needed, well cancel the Mustang convertible again. I'm talking about an American designed and built utility for the American market first, if it can be sold in other less profitable markets that's okay. But don't dump some Suzuki Samurai clone Troller here. You preach about the "business case" for a vehicle well let's see Ford utility total 2014 sales results: TOTAL = 693,524 (20,655 of these were the fleet Police utilities) Jeep Wrangler = 175,328 The Wrangler came in third in the Jeep line behind the Grand Cherokee and Cherokee. TOTAL Jeep brand sales for 2014 = 692,348 So replace the Flex with the Bronco. Other manufacturers looked at the successful Mustang formula and jumped in the game to compete with vehicles that are very capable yet not the same. But do a new Bronco right from the ground up or stay off the field. To add, Hummer actually did achieve some sales success against Jeep. One of the stipulations of the BK was to also dump Hummer and GM wants to get back in that feild with GMC, funny because Hummer was supposed to be part of GMC before the H2 launched. As for Bronco, a 4x4 CD6 version can hit all It's targets and still be on an mass-produce platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 The current Jeep Wrangler is not as you say "a woefully inadequate daily driver" I own one do you? I have had several Jeeps, Broncos and one IH Scout II. I don't own a Wrangler. I have several friends that own Wranglers, both 2 door and 4 door. I have only ridden in the 2 door models. I have also asked about gas mileage. My Mustang rides better, drives better, is more comfortable, quieter, and gets better gas mileage than the 2 door Wranglers. For me, the Wrangler is woefully inadequate as a DD. FYI: My daily driver is a 2005 Mustang GT. If Ford decides to compete in this area, I don't think it would be hard to beat the Wrangler in all of the areas listed above. I also don't think it has to beat the Wrangler in its off-road prowess. It does, however, need to be very good off-road. Would this formula beat the Wrangler in sales? I don't think so, but it could sell well. What platform could Ford use for this and be profitable? I'm not sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I don't own a Wrangler. I have several friends that own Wranglers, both 2 door and 4 door. I have only ridden in the 2 door models. I have also asked about gas mileage. My Mustang rides better, drives better, is more comfortable, quieter, and gets better gas mileage than the 2 door Wranglers. For me, the Wrangler is woefully inadequate as a DD. FYI: My daily driver is a 2005 Mustang GT. If Ford decides to compete in this area, I don't think it would be hard to beat the Wrangler in all of the areas listed above. I also don't think it has to beat the Wrangler in its off-road prowess. Thank you for your apples to oranges Wrangler vs Mustang comparison. I have an old Mustang GT as well. Its a fun car but when I need to tow my 8,500 LB boat I grab my F150 keys. The Mustang performs well but not when I go beach driving on Hatteras island. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 For all of the happy Escape owners: Glad you got the CAR you wanted Ford has a hit in the CUV segment for sure. But we are talking about a new Bronco which if done right could be a real asset in the Ford model line along side the CUVs that Ford already has. I believe Ford can build a serious competitor and be successful with the project if they make the commitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Thank you for your apples to oranges Wrangler vs Mustang comparison. I have an old Mustang GT as well. Its a fun car but when I need to tow my 8,500 LB boat I grab my F150 keys. The Mustang performs well but not when I go beach driving on Hatteras island. Perhaps you misunderstood my post. It wasn't an apples to oranges comparison. You said that the Wrangler was not a woefully inadequate DD. I said it was a woefully inadequate DD for me. I pointed out the aspects of a DD that many people look at. Explain how that is an apples to oranges comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Perhaps you misunderstood my post. It wasn't an apples to oranges comparison. You said that the Wrangler was not a woefully inadequate DD. I said it was a woefully inadequate DD for me. I pointed out the aspects of a DD that many people look at. Explain how that is an apples to oranges comparison. You compared two vehicles designed for entirely different purposes. Opposite ends of the spectrum. The Mustang cannot do what the Wrangler was designed to do and vice versa. And that's your opinion of an inadequate DD, many more buyers would consider a small 2-door car with a gas guzzling V8 and harsh suspension a lousy DD. Edited February 17, 2015 by F250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 You compared two vehicles designed for evtirely different purposes. Opposite ends of the spectrum. The Mustang cannot do what the Wrangler was designed to do and vice versa. This particular tangent started when Richard said the Wrangler was a woefully inadequate DD. You disagreed. I agree with Richard and pointed out several reasons why I thought it was inadequate as a DD. I'm comparing two vehicles that are being used as a DD. Neither vehicle was designed primarily as a DD. However, I think the Mustang works well as a DD. The wrangler, not so much. If you'd like, you can disregard my references to the Mustang. I still think the Wrangler was a woefully inadequate DD. Disclaimer: I am talking about the 2 Door Wranglers. I have no direct experience with the 4 door models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Somebody's watching... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 For all of the happy Escape owners: Glad you got the CAR you wanted Ford has a hit in the CUV segment for sure. But we are talking about a new Bronco which if done right could be a real asset in the Ford model line along side the CUVs that Ford already has. I believe Ford can build a serious competitor and be successful with the project if they make the commitment. While I think you're being a little too hard on the Escape, I basically agree with you on this point. I would like to see Ford offer a serious competitor to the Wrangler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 It all depends on what you're used to. If you're used to driving Wranglers and you like them then you don't mind them as a daily driver. For the rest of us the ride quality, NVH and lack of amenities make it woefully inadequate as a DD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 See my edit above. Most would consider your Mustang GT too small inside, the ride too hard (especially that solid rear axle) its v8 engine way to thirsty and therefore an inadequate daily driver. Different horses for different courses you love it they don't. Nothing wrong with that. By the way Mustang racked up 82,635 sales last year on a unique platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 See my edit above. Most would consider your Mustang GT too small inside, the ride too hard (especially that solid rear axle) its v8 engine way to thirsty and therefore an inadequate daily driver. Different horses for different courses you love it they don't. Nothing wrong with that. By the way Mustang racked up 82,635 sales last year on a unique platform. I don't disagree with anything you said here. For many people, the Mustang is not an ideal DD. Question: You said that you have owned several Wranglers. Were any of them your DD? If so, cool. If not, how often did you drive them. I'm just kind of curious. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddysystem Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 This conversation is just like the automatic vs. manual transmission debate. Some people are convinced that a manual is mandatory for a certain vehicle type while others either don't get it, disagree, or don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I don't disagree with anything you said here. For many people, the Mustang is not an ideal DD. Question: You said that you have owned several Wranglers. Were any of them your DD? If so, cool. If not, how often did you drive them. I'm just kind of curious. Thanks. Had a 1993 Wrangler for 17 years it was my wife's daily driver. My daughter loved it to so when she got her drivers license we gave it to her. I think she was the only kid in her class who learned to drive with a manual transmission. We got a new Wrangler in 2012 with the new pentastar v6 engine and automatic transmission. What a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Had a 1993 Wrangler for 17 years it was my wife's daily driver. My daughter loved it to so when she got her drivers license we gave it to her. I think she was the only kid in her class who learned to drive with a manual transmission. We got a new Wrangler in 2012 with the new pentastar v6 engine and automatic transmission. What a difference. I don't think I have ridden in a Wrangler with the Pentastar V6. That, by itself, should be a huge improvement over the older models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 why not something a tad "softer" and more agreeable on a day to day basis...with a SERIOUS off road option ( ala Track pack fro the Mustang ) for those that like dehydrated food packs, coleman stoves and shaving with bowie knives..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) So, according to you, 100% of all Wrangler buyers are 100% happy with 100% of everything on a Wrangler, and everything on the Wrangler should be copied? Let's face it: The Wrangler is a woefully inadequate daily driver, even by *MUSTANG* standards. Ford owns a company in Brazil that engineers all-terrain vehicles. They have the institutional intelligence to build off-road vehicles. Who's to say that there isn't a market for a more livable but still off-road capable vehicle? I mean, you're insisting that a 'real' Jeep competitor needs removable doors and a soft top, etc. What if it doesn't? What if Ford can sell 100k hard top/sealed door off road vehicles to people who live in the snowbelt and who do *not* like driving Wranglers in winter? "But, then it won't be as capable as a Jeep!!" I hear you say The people that use 100% of a Wrangler's capability will not buy a different vehicle, so there is absolutely *no* need to cater to them, or even concern yourself with what they think of this vehicle. It is different customer - different mind set. I have three acquaintances (family guys) that just purchased (Big $$$) Wranglers as their primary vehicle - their wives drive other cars. Help me understand why many comments here do not recognize other peoples perceptions as legit? Wranglers are insanely popular here as daily drivers. These people are as dumbfounded with your perception that nobody would want a Wrangler, as you are with the thought of somebody wanting one for a DD. Both sides are real. Can't we acknowledge that? To each their own - your perception of woefully inadequate is not the same as someone else's. Think Harley Davidson - noisy, uncomfortable, tedious maintenance, not the best reliability - does that stop customers from lining up to buy them? They ride them every single moment they can find the time. Many ride their bikes to and from work every single day it is seasonally permissible. It was 65+ degrees here in Denver over the weekend (sorry Boston), and the Harley's came out in full force - owners could not wait to be bounced, jostled, and vibrated to death- loving every minute of it! And the "can't compete" perception, Harley-Davidson of course, is historically one of the most coveted and revered brands in the world - didn't stop an already profitable Polaris from coming to the game and saying "...we want a piece of that market and can build competitive models..." Bottom line is that there are a boat load of "more livable but still off-road capable vehicles" to choose from, the Explorer included. But there is only one Jeep Wrangler (as perceived by customers) - and it is selling like crazy! It is my opinion that there is room to compete in this market with a real off-roader in the Bronco tradition, from a profitable company. I respect that other's opinions are different than mine. Due to geographical location, lifestyle, and personal preferences, they don't see the value in this type of vehicle, and their perceptions are legit. Edited February 17, 2015 by Kev-Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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