Should Ford offer V6 Ecoboost in Mustang?

[Sevensecondsuv]

I thought the original 3.5EB was just the 3.5 V6 that has existed since 07ish. They gave it forged internals, lower compression, direct injection, a pair of turbos, and called it EcoBoost.

 

If so, I don't see why you couldn't do the same with the 5.0. The mod motors handle forced induction in the form of a supercharger just fine so I don't see why a reasonable amount of boost from turbocharging would be a problem.

[fordmantpw]

I thought the original 3.5EB was just the 3.5 V6 that has existed since 07ish. They gave it forged internals, lower compression, direct injection, a pair of turbos, and called it EcoBoost.

 

When the 3.5L was developed, it was developed from the ground up with DI and turbo charging in the plans. They didn't just slap those things on after the fact.

[sullynd]

When the 3.5L was developed, it was developed from the ground up with DI and turbo charging in the plans. They didn't just slap those things on after the fact.

Hybrid too. Wonder if that will ever show up.

[jpd80]

Is the 5.0 built to handle turbo charging like the 3.5? I know it's built on the strong backbone of the mod motors which have handled S/C well, but the 3.5 was built from the ground up with turbo charging in mind. Is a 5.0EB a real possibility based on the architecture of the engine? Or is that just a pipe dream?

One of the mission parameters was to deliver a strong foundation for forced induction applications.

The same blower set up as GT500 can be used to make similar power with less capacity.

[brucelinc]

Some of us older guys who were raised on the sound of V8s are now more impressed with the sound of the ecoboost 3.5. Here is my 4,450 pound Lincoln MKS doing the quarter in 12.8 @ 107.5. Exhaust is stock and it doesn't have a cold air induction system. It could use better brakes to make the turn-around, though....

 

http://youtu.be/eL3-P7E6oF4

[mustang let back]

If FORD offers an ecoboost 6 with big then the rest of the mustang line up would have to get a huge boost in power.im all for that.for it to work out well,lets see what numbers i can throw out here.

1.eco v6 450hp

2.mustang gt 550hp

3.GT350 FPC,625hp.

4.the king of all muscle cars,the GT500,over 800hp,top speed about 212mph.

[papilgee4evaeva]

 

 

Which one did you mean?

 

Also - do you not consider Fiesta ST and Focus ST fans to be "American Car Enthusiasts"?

You got me. ? I meant "Japanese car" enthusiasts.

 

Focus and Fiesta ST fans - granted, but that's a different segment than the pony/muscle car and supercar segments. Expectations and norms are different.

 

ETA: I might be wrong, but I think the GTR brand has used a forced-induction 6 even during the Skyline days. So that's not new ground on Nissan's part and definitely not a reflection on younger buyers.

Edited May 23, 2015 by papilgee4evaeva

[akirby]

Focus and Fiesta ST fans - granted, but that's a different segment than the pony/muscle car and supercar segments. Expectations and norms are different.

 

Nobody said anything about muscle cars or supercars. Just enthusiasts. And I submit there are just as many if not more car enthusiasts who like high output 4 and 6 cylinder engines as much if not more than V8s.

[akirby]

If FORD offers an ecoboost 6 with big then the rest of the mustang line up would have to get a huge boost in power.im all for that.for it to work out well,lets see what numbers i can throw out here.

1.eco v6 450hp

2.mustang gt 550hp

3.GT350 FPC,625hp.

4.the king of all muscle cars,the GT500,over 800hp,top speed about 212mph.

 

That makes no sense.

[jpd80]

Some of the confusion in this thread was due to my poorly worded title. What i should have asked was whether there is room for

either a 2.7 EB (375 hp/375 lb ft) to replace the base V6 with something better or 3.5 EB V6 (460 hp /466 lb ft) as the HP V6.

 

It's really a tough one to answer in terms of the financial benefit to Ford but perhaps these Ecoboost V6 Mustang buyers

are not apparent and like F170 buyers probably not convinced until theyt can actually see a product in front of them.

and id more a question of what other buyers would like and wwhther that would draw them to the Mustang and

significantly increase overall sales and production.

[98GMLS]

I would like to see:

3.7L 325 hp Base

2.3L EB - 350 hp

2.7L EB - 375 hp

5.0L - 450 hp

5.2L FPC - 525 hp

EB 5.0, S/C 5.8L 725-750 hp

[jpd80]

Or would you offer:

Base: 2.7 EB (325hp/375 lb ft) .......... make Camaro 2.0T look underwhelming

Mid level: 2.3 EB (320 hp/320 lb ft)......A fitting adversary to GM's new 3.6 V6

 

GT/SS level: ..5.0 V8 (435 hp/400 lb ft).& 5.2 V8 (530 hp/420 lb ft?).....Camaro 6.2 V8 455 hp/455 lb ft.

 

Perhaps a low cost option 3.5 EB V6 that produced 450-500 hp and enough torque to surpass the Camaro's 6.2 V8

so as to cover Automatic versions of Mustang and cover the majority of SS Camaro sales, leave 5.2 FPC for high rev manuals.

[rmc523]

Or would you offer:

Base: 2.7 EB (325hp/375 lb ft) .......... make Camaro 2.0T look underwhelming

Mid level: 2.3 EB (320 hp/320 lb ft)......A fitting adversary to GM's new 3.6 V6

 

GT/SS level: ..5.0 V8 (435 hp/400 lb ft).& 5.2 V8 (530 hp/420 lb ft?).....Camaro 6.2 V8 455 hp/455 lb ft.

 

Perhaps a low cost option 3.5 EB V6 that produced 450-500 hp and enough torque to surpass the Camaro's 6.2 V8

so as to cover Automatic versions of Mustang and cover the majority of SS Camaro sales, leave 5.2 FPC for high rev manuals.

Do you have the "base" and "mid level" reversed?

[papilgee4evaeva]

 

Nobody said anything about muscle cars or supercars. Just enthusiasts. And I submit there are just as many if not more car enthusiasts who like high output 4 and 6 cylinder engines as much if not more than V8s.

Hey, YOU mentioned the GT-R (supercar) first. lol

 

And you may or may not be right. If you are, I blame Vin Diesel.

[jpd80]

Do you have the "base" and "mid level" reversed?

deliberately...think about it...

2.7 EB replaces 3.5 NA base model but keep it in the low trim levels and auto only as supplied to F150.

It makes for affordable base performance with auto but better economy than the 3.5 V6 it replaces

while only costing $595 more in F150....

 

The paradoxical reversal of lower engines gives competitors nowhere to go with I-4 turbo and N/A V6.

Keep your base sales V6 auto with specific options buyers want while maintaining 2.3 EB for mid trim

level so that the contrast between it and V8 is there in terms of flavor, handling and performance.

 

GM is fronting with the same dud line up from Cadillac 2.0T, 3.6 V6 and V8 but it's not working for buyers.

I think buyer are a bit put off by the engine line up not reflecting their preferences and product mix in the

V6 trim levels seems hard for GM to shift - Currently, over 22,000 unsold V6 Camaros in inventory.

Something I think Ford has correct with the model order thus: 3.5 V6, 2,3 EB & V8.

 

 

Ford could then add the Raptor V6 as a low cost option over the 5.0 V8 making it a value proposition

against 6.2 Camaro, with better all round performance and economy underscoring the difference.

 

That still leaves the GT350 un affected as a higher level model and its premium price in tact

Edited May 24, 2015 by jpd80

[papilgee4evaeva]

deliberately...think about it...

2.7 EB replaces 3.5 NA base model but keep it in the low trim levels and auto only as supplied to F150.

It makes for affordable base performance with auto but better economy than the 3.5 V6 it replaces

while only costing $595 more in F150....

 

The paradoxical reversal of lower engines gives competitors nowhere to go with I-4 turbo and N/A V6.

Keep your base sales V6 auto with specific options buyers want while maintaining 2.3 EB for mid trim

level so that the contrast between it and V8 is there in terms of flavor, handling and performance.

 

GM is fronting with the same dud line up from Cadillac 2.0T, 3.6 V6 and V8 but it's not working for buyers.

I think buyer are a bit put off by the engine line up not reflecting their preferences and product mix in the

V6 trim levels seems hard for GM to shift - Currently, over 22,000 unsold V6 Camaros in inventory.

Something I think Ford has correct with the model order thus: 3.5 V6, 2,3 EB & V8.

 

 

Ford could then add the Raptor V6 as a low cost option over the 5.0 V8 making it a value proposition

against 6.2 Camaro, with better all round performance and economy underscoring the difference.

 

That still leaves the GT350 un affected as a higher level model and its premium price in tact

Yeah... see, though, with the power levels you provide, that's a good way not to sell any 2.3EB models. It would make the 2.3EB look artificially more premium than the 2.7EB when that couldn't be further from the truth. Only reason it works with the current lineup is because the 3.5 architecture isn't long for this world. You'll still have a different character between the 2.7EB and the GT with 6 cylinders versus 8.

 

AND... why go through all the trouble of bringing in an all-new engine just to restrict it to bargain shoppers? That's just not good business.

 

With the Camaro it should work despite the Cadillac debacle, for reasons wholly unrelated to the engines. Their engine lineup actually doesn't leave huge performance gaps like the current Mustang lineup does.

[T-bird]

Yeah... see, though, with the power levels you provide, that's a good way not to sell any 2.3EB models. It would make the 2.3EB look artificially more premium than the 2.7EB when that couldn't be further from the truth. Only reason it works with the current lineup is because the 3.5 architecture isn't long for this world. You'll still have a different character between the 2.7EB and the GT with 6 cylinders versus 8.

 

AND... why go through all the trouble of bringing in an all-new engine just to restrict it to bargain shoppers? That's just not good business.

 

With the Camaro it should work despite the Cadillac debacle, for reasons wholly unrelated to the engines. Their engine lineup actually doesn't leave huge performance gaps like the current Mustang lineup does.

What is replacing the 3.5?

[rmc523]

deliberately...think about it...

2.7 EB replaces 3.5 NA base model but keep it in the low trim levels and auto only as supplied to F150.

It makes for affordable base performance with auto but better economy than the 3.5 V6 it replaces

while only costing $595 more in F150....

 

The paradoxical reversal of lower engines gives competitors nowhere to go with I-4 turbo and N/A V6.

Keep your base sales V6 auto with specific options buyers want while maintaining 2.3 EB for mid trim

level so that the contrast between it and V8 is there in terms of flavor, handling and performance.

 

GM is fronting with the same dud line up from Cadillac 2.0T, 3.6 V6 and V8 but it's not working for buyers.

I think buyer are a bit put off by the engine line up not reflecting their preferences and product mix in the

V6 trim levels seems hard for GM to shift - Currently, over 22,000 unsold V6 Camaros in inventory.

Something I think Ford has correct with the model order thus: 3.5 V6, 2,3 EB & V8.

 

 

Ford could then add the Raptor V6 as a low cost option over the 5.0 V8 making it a value proposition

against 6.2 Camaro, with better all round performance and economy underscoring the difference.

 

That still leaves the GT350 un affected as a higher level model and its premium price in tact

I see what you're after, but as the other poster mentioned - with the numbers you suggested, you're saying the base engine is more powerful than the "mid range" 2.3 you proposed, not to mention the mid range would cost more. That was my point

[mustang let back]

 

That makes no sense.

you make no sense,never have.

[RichardJensen]

Or would you offer:

Base: 2.7 EB (325hp/375 lb ft) .......... make Camaro 2.0T look underwhelming

Mid level: 2.3 EB (320 hp/320 lb ft)......A fitting adversary to GM's new 3.6 V6

 

GT/SS level: ..5.0 V8 (435 hp/400 lb ft).& 5.2 V8 (530 hp/420 lb ft?).....Camaro 6.2 V8 455 hp/455 lb ft.

 

Perhaps a low cost option 3.5 EB V6 that produced 450-500 hp and enough torque to surpass the Camaro's 6.2 V8

so as to cover Automatic versions of Mustang and cover the majority of SS Camaro sales, leave 5.2 FPC for high rev manuals.

 

The 2.3L EB is effectively the base model; the 3.5L is pretty much a specialty offering for a narrow subset of bargain hunters/rental agencies.

 

And because everyone missed it, I'll restate: I'm pretty sure Robert has said that there is an EB V6 on the way.

[02MustangGT]

Except there is no 3.5 in the current Mustang.

[RichardJensen]

Fine. The 3.7L NA.

[SoonerLS]

When the 3.5L was developed, it was developed from the ground up with DI and turbo charging in the plans. They didn't just slap those things on after the fact.

I'm pretty sure the Coyote was developed with those in mind, too. I'm almost certain that I've seen pics of 5.0 heads that show the flats where the injectors would go if Ford chose to add DI, maybe even posted here...

Edited May 25, 2015 by SoonerLS

[jpd80]

 

The 2.3L EB is effectively the base model; the 3.5L is pretty much a specialty offering for a narrow subset of bargain hunters/rental agencies.

 

And because everyone missed it, I'll restate: I'm pretty sure Robert has said that there is an EB V6 on the way.

In my haste to out point GM, I forgot why Ford relegated the 3.7 Mustang to a base level with limited options,

the Mustang is offered that way to cover the small subset of buyers you mentioned, none of them requre a 2.7 EB.

 

So maybe the 5.2 is Ford's weapon of choice to out point the competition, I still can't comprehend the difference

all those extra rpms will add up to, not only in added horsepower but incredible high rpm torque.....

 

Forced induction still has a role to play and I'm sure the new 5.0 S/C will be every bit the equal of the 5.8 in GT500,

I still have this nagging thought that the T150 Raptor's new V6 may make an appearance at some time...

[sullynd]

I still have this nagging thought that the T150 Raptor's new V6 may make an appearance at some time...