BORG Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) Both Explorer, Flex and Expedition/Navigator are heavily inspired by Land Rover design...clearly a healthy fetish, haha. If Expedition drops that much weight while carrying an IRS and automated folding seats, that would be quite respectable. I am glad that Expedition finally has an appealing design on-top of its vastly superior engineering. I hope people buy in this time! Unlike that terrible EcoSport they just phoned in, this is definitely a good product to take on GM's dominance in a market. Edited November 15, 2016 by BORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) Both Explorer, Flex and Expedition/Navigator are heavily inspired by Land Rover design...clearly a healthy fetish, haha. If Expedition drops that much weight while carrying an IRS and automated folding seats, that would be quite respectable. I am glad that Expedition finally has an appealing design on-top of its vastly superior engineering. I hope people buy in this time! Unlike that terrible EcoSport they just phoned in, this is definitely a good product to take on GM's dominance in a market. and the most under used vehicle resource in Ford's armory, I hope it's a huge success for them. The Ecosport is primary a BRIC developed product upgraded for other regions and as mentioned in other threads, a short C Ute between it and Escape would cover everything. Edited November 16, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 The lack of a V-8 in the current Expy/Navigator is probably an indication that the next gen vehicles will probably also be V-6 only. Probably 2.7/3.5 for the Expy and 3.0/3.5 for the Navigator with the Navigator 3.5 perhaps slightly more powerful than the Expy 3.5. I'm guessing the 10 speed will be the exclusive transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) The lack of a V-8 in the current Expy/Navigator is probably an indication that the next gen vehicles will probably also be V-6 only. Probably 2.7/3.5 for the Expy and 3.0/3.5 for the Navigator with the Navigator 3.5 perhaps slightly more powerful than the Expy 3.5. I'm guessing the 10 speed will be the exclusive transmission. If sales of large SUVs remain strong, the Expedition and Navigator will arrive in time for Ford to make good advantage of them. There may be room for two EB V6s and a V8 option. The 10-speed auto could make a huge difference to which engines we see... Edited November 16, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) a good product to take on GM's dominance in a market. They don't have the capacity to take GM on. The Expy is built on the same line as the SD (once the body & frame are married) at KTP. They can't match GM's 3-shift exclusive output SUV plant. Edited November 16, 2016 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) They don't have the capacity to take GM on. The Expy is built on the same line as the SD (once the body & frame are married) at KTP. They can't match GM's 3-shift exclusive output SUV plant. That Arlington plant produced over 30,000 SUVs last month, there's no way that a shard plant at KTP can catch that but looking at KTP's production same tme last year, Ford was pushing out over 38,000 SDs, Expedition and Navigator. Does Ford really need any more capacity than about 10K/mth combined Expedition/Navigator? and if so perhaps the F450 and F550 can move to Avon lake.. There's cause and effect here, trying to "push" Expedition sales too hard may take away form F150 Crew Cabs and all those splendid Explorer sales below it - Ford will be walking a fine line and controlling the mix. Edited November 16, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 and if so perhaps the F450 and F550 can move to Avon lake.. The F4/550 chassis cab trucks moved to OHAP with the '17 redesign. I'm sure it is in part due to expected demand increase for Super Duty as well as expected increase for Expy/Navi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 They don't have the capacity to take GM on. The Expy is built on the same line as the SD (once the body & frame are married) at KTP. They can't match GM's 3-shift exclusive output SUV plant. Bummer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) The F4/550 chassis cab trucks moved to OHAP with the '17 redesign. I'm sure it is in part due to expected demand increase for Super Duty as well as expected increase for Expy/Navi. Check the Ford release and you'll see that the F450/550 chassis cabs are being built at both locations. Even if no production is actually moved from Kentucky Truck Plant, there's is still room for at least 38,000 or more builds a month, that gives Ford plenty of wiggle room there to accommodate significant increases in Expedition and Navigator production. KTP set up is different to the F150 plants, the separate SUV line from body shop to marriage point and shared final trim line means fewer bottlenecks. If it was just a single line all the way, production would be limited to about 33,000 a month without additional Saturdays (Remember that's worth about 6,000/mth) If Expedition sales really take off, Ford would have contingencies in place, maybe those additional Saturday shifts I mentioned above or if long term, perhaps move more of the larger SD production to Avon Lake.... Keep in mind that the sales strength of GM's large Utilities may itself come under a lot of strain and maintaining three shifts at that Arlington plant may be difficult next year. Edited November 17, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Check the Ford release and you'll see that the F450/550 chassis cabs are being built at both locations. I did not catch that. Thanks for setting me straight. This really gives them much greater flexibility with the SD and Expedition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) With softening F-Series sales it's also easier to merge SuperDuty production across the other plants with the new generation since they share most of the same parts, but I'm sure it's not something you can just throw the switch on either. Edited November 17, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 With softening F-Series sales it's also easier to merge SuperDuty production across the other plants with the new generation since they share most of the same parts, but I'm sure it's not something you can just throw the switch on either. Uh they share cabs now, lots of other things that are different on them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) With softening F-Series sales it's also easier to merge SuperDuty production across the other plants with the new generation since they share most of the same parts, but I'm sure it's not something you can just throw the switch on either. The same F-Series sales that are up over 31,000 units YOY? Don't they (F-150 and Super Duty) use different frames? Edited November 17, 2016 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Ford could also go after the higher ATP sales and leave the lower ATP's to the GM's Twins. Focus on the loaded driveway models and not the work/fleet market as much. If the new Expedition/Navigator take 10% of GM sales and increase market share it would be huge for Ford and a huge loss for GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 GM corporate ATPs are still a few thousand higher than Ford's so they still have a pretty big gap to close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 GM corporate ATPs are still a few thousand higher than Ford's so they still have a pretty big gap to close Of course they are because Expy and Navi are older than dirt right now without all of the newer features. Just bringing out a new model will fix that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Uh they share cabs now, lots of other things that are different on them.... Shhhh, fact doesn't matter anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) Don't they (F-150 and Super Duty) use different frames? Yes. The F150 and SD trucks share the same cab and interior. The rest of the truck is completely different (front panels, hood, rear panels, bed, bumpers, frames, engines, transmissions, axles, transfer cases, etc.). Edited November 17, 2016 by fordmantpw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 little birdy told me the ne Expy has styling cues similar to the Explorer.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) This is the first time the SuperDuty has shared anything with the F-150, including the new aluminum cab. The rest of the differences are very minor from a manufacturing perspective, the frames are just a variation of what is under the F-150 and are built by a supplier offsite anyway, drivetrains also just pop in. Edited November 17, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 This is the first time the SuperDuty has shared anything with the F-150, including the new aluminum cab. The rest of the differences are very minor from a manufacturing perspective, the frames are just a variation of what is under the F-150 and are built by a supplier offsite anyway, drivetrains also just pop in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 little birdy told me the ne Expy has styling cues similar to the Explorer.............. Yup, definitely see the resemblance to Explorer in that latest spy shot I posted above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 That's awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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