tbone Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I have a question and I'm not trying to be a dick. Would it have still been on the list had it been built in Mexico? Contrary to recent dialogue, we have a pretty stable relationship with Mexico, and are cooperative on many fronts. They do not possess the same subversive capabilities or military that China has. Aside from the border issue, they have been decent neighbors and are at least considered an ally. To answer your question, yes it would have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Let's not forget China is a large market for Ford going forward. They'll sell close to 1M vehicles there in 2017 with more growth potential. As opposed to Japan where we're basically locked out. You can't let moral issues outweigh business decisions. Some vehicles just can't be made profitably in the U.S. Would Ford be better off discontinuing Focus altogether? Profits from imports can subsidize US operations. It's not like Ford is closing US plants and outsourcing them to India or China or Mexico. They're actually expanding US factories at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I do not like this at all. If they can do it to the Focus then they can do it to any other model. I don't like doing business with countries that don't have the same ideals that we have in our country, and are regularly playing Geo political games with us. You can probably thank GM for testing the waters with the Buick Envision for this sad decision. I guess I can cross the future Focus off my list for my daughter. While I agree with you, what is the alternative really? If it can't be made profitably here in the US, it either has to be cancelled or made elsewhere. The countries that do have similar ideals likely have higher costs associated with production, so it's a lose-lose situation for Ford. Until Americans are willing to pay more for made-in-America products, we will continue down this path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Until Americans are willing to pay more for made-in-America products, we will continue down this path. And we know that's simply not going to happen. Price rules. People will shop at WalMart while complaining about losing American jobs. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 And we know that's simply not going to happen. Price rules. People will shop at WalMart while complaining about losing American jobs. You are correct! Price rules, especially when incomes stagnate. Corporate management incomes grow at a ridiculous rate, while the middle class (or what is left of it) have to resort to Walmart shopping to make ends meet. Rinse, repeat. This cycle won't end until nobody has jobs to buy any products. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 While I agree with you, what is the alternative really? If it can't be made profitably here in the US, it either has to be cancelled or made elsewhere. The countries that do have similar ideals likely have higher costs associated with production, so it's a lose-lose situation for Ford. Until Americans are willing to pay more for made-in-America products, we will continue down this path. While I get the economics to a certain degree, are Hyundai, Honda, and Chevy losing money on their compacts? I'm not suggesting they stop manufacturing them, I'm just not a fan of China and their tactics. I understand going outside the US for a production facility but I can't believe Mexico wasn't viable. I guess I'm old fashioned and would like all of our Fords to be built here, but as you suggested most Americans don't give a rip about that it seems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 It was hard enough for me to buy an Edge and Fusion, knowing that they weren't made in the US. I actually entertained the thought of a Focus the past couple of weeks. Regular focus was a no go, since you really can't get a manual in anything other than ST or lower trim models. Not going to buy that auto trans. RS was really the only one that made sense (hear my logic and I know they are made in Germany). Since it was 4 doors, AWD, hatchback, and manual it checked all the boxes. However, it was right at the edge of my price point. The fact that there were absolutely no financing deals on the RS compared to 0% for 72 months on the regular Focus crossed it off of the list. Dealers are starting to go under MSRP now, as the glut of 2016 and 2017 RS's aren't being sold at dealer markup anymore. I won't need a car for a while now since I purchased a Fusion but if the Focus is made in China, I'll never buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 This solves the Fusion and Focus at the same plant problem. Despite the sales volume I don't think Ford was making any money on Focus at MAP and the prospects probably weren't much better in Hermosillo. Tough to sell a premium small car right now. Most of the ones I saw were cheaper SE sedans. This will allow them to compete at a lower price point. If this allows them to proceed with CD6 and the new electric vehicles and more performance vehicles I think it will be a good move. While I get the economics to a certain degree, are Hyundai, Honda, and Chevy losing money on their compacts? I'm not suggesting they stop manufacturing them, I'm just not a fan of China and their tactics. I understand going outside the US for a production facility but I can't believe Mexico wasn't viable. I guess I'm old fashioned and would like all of our Fords to be built here, but as you suggested most Americans don't give a rip about that it seems. They would've had to build a new plant (which they were doing until they stopped) or significantly expand an existing one (Hermosillo). This move saves them $1 billion. ($500m from stopping the plant construction and $500m from moving Focus). That's $1 billion that they can put into other projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 The Detroit News article also had this tidbit: On Tuesday, Ford also announced it would increase a planned investment its Kentucky Truck Plant by $300 million to build the all-new Expedition and Lincoln Navigator there. Ford negotiated as part of the 2015 United Auto Workers contract $600 million in investment for that plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Welcome to real world I guess. People want "Cheaper cars" and this is what happens. But, again, what about the long gap between 2018 and "mid 2019"? I didn't mind MEX, since Ford built compacts there since the Mercury Tracer days. But, at least not giving up and handing compact market to Asians. Not everyone can afford a $45K 4 door pickup to drive 50 miles to office. and only use the bed to haul shopping bags and Amazon shipments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 For Honda, it's my understanding that the new Civic and CR-V share a basic platform, and will be joined by an all-new Accord on the same platform later this year. That undoubtedly boosts profits on the Civic. Plus, the Civic has moved up in both size and price. The true entry-level Honda in North America is now the Fit, which is not made in either the U.S. or Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Welcome to real world I guess. People want "Cheaper cars" and this is what happens. But, again, what about the long gap between 2018 and "mid 2019"? I didn't mind MEX, since Ford built compacts there since the Mercury Tracer days. But, at least not giving up and handing compact market to Asians. Not everyone can afford a $45K 4 door pickup to drive 50 miles to office. and only use the bed to haul shopping bags and Amazon shipments. Huh??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Another point - hopefully this means we won't skip updates like the current transmission debacle/lack of US replacement. By being on the same line as the Chinese-bound models, they'd both have to get the same upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I mean not dropping their compact cars like Dodge, and handing over market to Honda, Toyota, etc. Then, younger buyers will not move up into Ford trucks. The ST and RS have a cult following and have increased sales, at least. Why not source SE, SEL from EU until China is ready? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Wow, was not expecting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 "Action Blitz" from new CEO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordowner Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) Bottom line this isn't some naming rights on a building, reality show or a hotel development deal - Trump trying to negotiate from his bully pulpit with Ford to not have them build that plant in Mexico has backfired. I would far prefer to have the plant in North America even if its not in the U.S. As stated above our interests are far more aligned with our neighbor to the South and putting a plant there would have more economic benfits for our economy than having it in China. For instance Recent trade #'s have our Trade Deficit with China at $347 Billion with Imports at $462 Billion and our Exports at $116 Billion. Meanwhile the Deficit with Mexico is $63 Billion with Imports $294 and Exports at $231 Billion. I almost wonder if Trump still has a grudge against Mexico for his past business failures with them. Trump has spoken a great deal about ending NAFTA but its largely crickets when it comes to China. Edited June 20, 2017 by Fordowner 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 So looks like we will be getting ST and RS from Germany and the rest from China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I think they're going to need the Mexico capacity for other vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Wow, was not expecting this. We either, it's quite disappointing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Still crickets from POTUS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) your a dumbass and obviously missed this part: After importing initial production of the new Focus cars from China, Ford will ship variants of the model later from Europe, the company said Well ok Mr. insults, I still don't see any US production plan or even expanding an existing plant in NA for compacts, can you answer that? . Edited June 20, 2017 by Fgts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Well ok Mr. insults, I still don't see any US production plan or even expanding an existing plant in NA for compacts, can you answer that? . You didn't say anything about US or NA production. You said it wasn't wise to import all the vehicles from a questionable nation (China). They're not importing all of them from China. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Well ok Mr. insults, I still don't see any US production plan or even expanding an existing plant in NA for compacts, can you answer that? . An all-new fully electric small SUV, coming by 2020, engineered to deliver an estimated range of at least 300 miles, to be built at the Flat Rock plant and sold in North America, Europe and Asia. A small SUV is technically a compact car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 The ST and RS have a cult following and have increased sales, at least. Why not source SE, SEL from EU until China is ready? Because it would have even worse profitably than one made in NA. Had another thought...I guess this means the Transit Connect will never be built in North America either, unless they find a way to put it with the Escape...wasn't there rumors of Escape (overflow) or the MKC moving to Mexico also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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