jpd80 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 They also are trying to fix a badly over-supplied sales channel. (I can't believe I'm just now chiming in on a monthly sales thread, but it's been a day.) I remember this, GM had sent lots of vehicles to dealerships whether they wanted them or not I'm beting that GM had more than just a "truck month" in August, it had a "Truck-Utility-Car month" where strong incentives and good financing carries the day, guaranteeing GM moved a lot of stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Quietly the Silverado sales are falling YTD, while the Ram increases and gets closer to it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Quietly the Silverado sales are falling YTD, while the Ram increases and gets closer to it.... But the Silvererra is a "next generation" truck--the goober in the ads done said so... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Combined sales of Silverado and Sierra was over 71,000 sales and then they go on with Escalade 3,700, Tahoe 7,879, Suburban 4,777 and Yukon with 8,183 There's ove 24,000 full sized utilities there on top of the full sized trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Quietly the Silverado sales are falling YTD, while the Ram increases and gets closer to it.... Because it's not very fuel efficient, lags in capability and features and despite what (as SoonerLS so aptly put it) that goober in their ads say, it's old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 (edited) Because it's not very fuel efficient, lags in capability and features and despite what (as SoonerLS so aptly put it) that goober in their ads say, it's old. Yeah, it's been out long enough now that returning buyers are basically seeing the same truck and sure, they still sell but not with the enthusiasm that's being seen over at Ford. Could you imagine how many F Series Ford would sell it it went crazy with deals on financing and bigger incentives. No, that honor goes to GM who had the equivalent of a truck-Utility-car month in August, pushing as much product out the door as its dealers could manage, GM knows the 18s are almost here and it can't get stuck with massive inventory of superseded vehicles. It's the old over produce and dump tactic but now it's into retail. Edited September 2, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Yeah, it's been out long enough now that returning buyers are basically seeing the same truck The sad part is that it's not that old, just a year older than the 'loomnum F150 (IIRC, the Silvierra was "all new" for '14), but they whiffed on the styling so you couldn't easily tell that it was new. Ram damn near caught them right after the "all new" Silvierra hit the showrooms, so I asked my then-boss (a Chebbie guy) about the crap sales, and he said what he was hearing from other Chebbie guys was that the new one wasn't distinctive enough from the old one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 (edited) The sad part is that it's not that old, just a year older than the 'loomnum F150 (IIRC, the Silvierra was "all new" for '14), but they whiffed on the styling so you couldn't easily tell that it was new. Ram damn near caught them right after the "all new" Silvierra hit the showrooms, so I asked my then-boss (a Chebbie guy) about the crap sales, and he said what he was hearing from other Chebbie guys was that the new one wasn't distinctive enough from the old one. The gen 3 Silverado was shown in Dec 2012 and went into production in April 2013 as a '14. The big difference between it and the Aluminum F150 was that the F Truck arrived late in 2014 and sales weren't really effective until 2015 after the second plant KCAP switched... Perception is everything in this game and Ford milked the changes to the nth degree, GM's improvements were more evolutionary than watershed revolutionary moments and that's why I think that GM will struggle to impress the market with an alloy truck seen by some as four years late, Ford has already stolen that moment and the improvements. Edited September 3, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 But the Silvererra is a "next generation" truck--the goober in the ads done said so... Ha, I love that ad. We got nothing so we're just gonna introduce this again. It's almost as though they've admitted they can't catch up to the F-150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Here's another guy showing how Chevy misleads people in their commercials. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Ford's daily rental sales were a mere 2% in August or just over 4,000 out of 202,000 sales... So much for fleet dumping claims... Ford is definitely heading in the right direction by reducing fleet sales. Getting total fleet sales percentage below 20% seems quite feasible for the rest of 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Here's another guy showing how Chevy misleads people in their commercials. I love how they're using tinhorns to show towing capability. Umm, yeah, I'm pretty sure the trailer weighs more than those tinhorns... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) Ford is definitely heading in the right direction by reducing fleet sales. Getting total fleet sales percentage below 20% seems quite feasible for the rest of 2017. This happens every year, fleet sales are heavy early and then really taper off in the second half. For the last two years the 12 month average for fleet sales has been 28-29% but only around 11% has been daily rental. As at August, YTD average fleet sales are down to 30.6%, that's down from 32.1% at the same time last year. Rental, government and commercial are all down on same time last year.so there's a strong chance that the 12 month average could drop to 26% this year. Not perfect but moving in the right direction. The underlying problem is not fleet sales, it's the lack of growth in retail customers and that's squarely at the feet of Ford's aging Utilities coming off the boil when they should be forging ahead. Part of that is due to lack of competitive financing, something that can be quickly and easily remedied. Edited September 4, 2017 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 This happens every year, fleet sales are heavy early and then really taper off in the second half. For the last two years the 12 month average for fleet sales has been 28-29% but only around 11% has been daily rental. As at August, YTD average fleet sales are down to 30.6%, that's down from 32.1% at the same time last year. Rental, government and commercial are all down on same time last year.so there's a strong chance that the 12 month average could drop to 26% this year. Not perfect but moving in the right direction. The underlying problem is not fleet sales, it's the lack of growth in retail customers and that's squarely at the feet of Ford's aging Utilities coming off the boil when they should be forging ahead. Part of that is due to lack of competitive financing, something that can be quickly and easily remedied. Go find a brick wall to talk to. It will be more productive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 This happens every year, fleet sales are heavy early and then really taper off in the second half. For the last two years the 12 month average for fleet sales has been 28-29% but only around 11% has been daily rental. As at August, YTD average fleet sales are down to 30.6%, that's down from 32.1% at the same time last year. Rental, government and commercial are all down on same time last year.so there's a strong chance that the 12 month average could drop to 26% this year. Not perfect but moving in the right direction. The underlying problem is not fleet sales, it's the lack of growth in retail customers and that's squarely at the feet of Ford's aging Utilities coming off the boil when they should be forging ahead. Part of that is due to lack of competitive financing, something that can be quickly and easily remedied. Im not in total agreement that competitive financing is a problem...may be more of a concern..bottom line for me is they have nothing outside of a truck that is competitive and fresh....mustang sure but that is such a niche market anymore it cant do much to help stock price...really cant argue against what you penned there jpd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Stock price has nothing to do with great sales or even record profits. Unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Why would Ford be impacted? The dealer owns those vehicles, not Ford. I also assume dealers and Ford have insurance for these circumstances to cover the loss. Ford provides flooring cost financing for many dealers (or used to?). That is a large cost that ford credit may need to eat part of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 As at August, YTD average fleet sales are down to 30.6%, that's down from 32.1% at the same time last year. Rental, government and commercial are all down on same time last year.so there's a strong chance that the 12 month average could drop to 26% this year. Not perfect but moving in the right direction. The underlying problem is not fleet sales, it's the lack of growth in retail customers and that's squarely at the feet of Ford's aging Utilities coming off the boil when they should be forging ahead. Part of that is due to lack of competitive financing, something that can be quickly and easily remedied. Thank you sir for the details. I think that too many fleet sales and lack of growth in retail customers due to stale products and lack of competitive financing are two sides of the same coin. Jim Hackett's leadership role at Ford Motor & Ford Credit should hopefully address those things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 I honestly think that Ford generally avoiding subprime lending is a good move. That's a bubble that's ready to burst. I would rather be on firmer footing financially and lose some sales because of it if it's going to lead to less problems down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Thank you sir for the details. I think that too many fleet sales and lack of growth in retail customers due to stale products and lack of competitive financing are two sides of the same coin. Jim Hackett's leadership role at Ford Motor & Ford Credit should hopefully address those things. But let's not forget how GM made so many retail sales last month, dealerships were already overflowing with stock GM offered buyers good incentives, competitive financing rates and the the buyers did the rest. GM had much higher inventory than Ford and it needed to more more stock than Ford. You can tell that Ford is playing to its strength, F Series in all of this and just picking up the low hanging fruit elsewhere.. I wonder though if that's the best strategy or just the easiest one to implement.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Ford provides flooring cost financing for many dealers (or used to?). That is a large cost that ford credit may need to eat part of. Unless Ford includes insurance in their floor plan financing (same as buying credit life insurance on your bank loan) then it's still not Ford's loss. If you finance a new vehicle with the bank and the vehicle gets flooded, do you think the bank will eat that loss? Of course not - it's your problem and your insurance has to pay for it. That's why the bank requires you to have full coverage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) The Escape sales number vs. competitor illustrate why Fields is not here anymore... Keep this in mind... Escape came to market 6 months before the first generation Mazda CX-5. The second generation of CX-5 has now been on sale for 3 months while the next gen Escape is at least 18 months away. The slowness of product development at Ford was justifiable during the economy downturn but not during the current model cycle which happened entirely during boom time. If a company with limited resource like Mazda can somehow stick to a 5 year product cycle, there is no reason why Ford is not able to. Since the current gen Escape launched, Honda has launched TWO, two! generations of CR-V in the US market. The RAV4 sales is in part driven by strong demand for the hybrid version... a market that Ford was in early but choose to abandon in favor of C-Max. Edited September 5, 2017 by bzcat 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 Unless Ford includes insurance in their floor plan financing (same as buying credit life insurance on your bank loan) then it's still not Ford's loss. If you finance a new vehicle with the bank and the vehicle gets flooded, do you think the bank will eat that loss? Of course not - it's your problem and your insurance has to pay for it. That's why the bank requires you to have full coverage. If the losses are 20 million, insurance covers 17 million and the dealer can't pay the 3 million in the short term, Ford credit will be eating it on floor plan. There are pretty big gaps in coverage for event's like this, deductibles etc.. Ford's exposure isn't huge but I'm sure there will be in the tens of millions in losses. People not having adequate insurance on cars that are totaled are another area that Ford will have exposure. What Ford won't do is start closing dealers that can't make that gap, they will eat the loss -- the PR would be horrendous if they start closing or cancelling local franchises that can't meet gap amounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 One of the lessons that Alan Mulally tried to get across to Ford management was the importance of continuous product development. Unfortunately, the company continues to follow rather than lead the market. The consistent reason relates to bottom line profits and talk about being willing to lose sales and market share if it doesn't meet the corporate profit objective. Mark Fields followed that course and the company and shareholders both suffered. Over the past 20+ years Ford has lost 40% of the market share it once had. Thanks to Alan Mulally's restructuring the company can now focus product development costs over far fewer models for only the Ford and Lincoln divisions. Yet here we are with the 2018MY vehicles now being built and shipped and Ford once again is behind the competition regarding vehicle designs, features, etc. For years, Lincoln dealers have heard about the all-new product they could expect but they're still waiting. Changing every model's front end to include the new Continental nose does not constitute all-new product. Unfortunately, Ford dealers are in much the same state for the next few years until we see what Ford's new CEO actually does. In the meantime, Ford dealers are left to compete with aging products for the most part while waiting several more years for the promised new product lines such as the Ranger and Bronco. Just a few random thoughts about Ford in general. Thanks for listening! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 The Escape sales number vs. competitor illustrate why Fields is not here anymore... Keep this in mind... Escape came to market 6 months before the first generation Mazda CX-5. The second generation of CX-5 has now been on sale for 3 months while the next gen Escape is at least 18 months away. The slowness of product development at Ford was justifiable during the economy downturn but not during the current model cycle which happened entirely during boom time. If a company with limited resource like Mazda can somehow stick to a 5 year product cycle, there is no reason why Ford is not able to. Since the current gen Escape launched, Honda has launched TWO, two! generations of CR-V in the US market. The RAV4 sales is in part driven by strong demand for the hybrid version... a market that Ford was in early but choose to abandon in favor of C-Max. We do know that part of that is due to Ford's misread of a predicted slow down in sales this year, the only sector really affected was cars... It all says to me that outside of the cash cow F Series, Fields was happy to stretch out product cycles on cars and utilities but worse than that, really eased back on supporting those aged products with 1) incentives and more importantly 2) finance rates. No one knows how long this fairly high level SAAR will last but Ford better get going with Ute sales or really start cranking out F Trucks and hope for the best. Competitive interest rates doesn't equate to going after subprime buyers either, just get more of those in the market,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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