2020 Explorer

[Bob Rosadini]

 

I'm guessing 95% of those people already buy AWD anyway so I don't expect it to be a big difference.

 

I do expect higher trim levels including the ST model and more features. So sales may not jump that much but ATPs should go up quite a bit. That was part of the reason the project got approved in the first place.

For sure on your 95% number -at least I would bet here in the No'east. Now I have a friend who moved up here from FLA and she has an MKX. She was complaining about traction in snow and i said.."impossible"-until I looked under the vehicle. I guess stock inventory in Boca Ratan is a lot different than stock vehicles up here!

 

I'm of mindset that people think "Explorer" and it is automatically "AWD"-or as most people think- "4 WD".

[rmc523]

Ill be interested to see if there is an impact on sales from moving from front wheel drive to rear drive wheel drive on the Explorer. The vast majority of non-enthusiasts do not view front wheel drive unfavorably, particularly those living in cold weather states. Im curious to see if they lose sales in those cold weather states, due to people declining to spend the extra money on the four-wheel-drive system or they cant afford it.

 

I think the vast majority of non-enthusiasts have no clue what wheels are driving their car. And therefore don't care. Those that do up there - as has been pointed out - will likely get AWD anyway.

 

For sure on your 95% number -at least I would bet here in the No'east. Now I have a friend who moved up here from FLA and she has an MKX. She was complaining about traction in snow and i said.."impossible"-until I looked under the vehicle. I guess stock inventory in Boca Ratan is a lot different than stock vehicles up here!

 

I'm of mindset that people think "Explorer" and it is automatically "AWD"-or as most people think- "4 WD".

 

Most stock models here in FL are FWD.

[Fgts]

 

 

 

There really isn't a market for a full sized sedan any more.

Tell that to FCA or even Lincoln, don't build a boring, half-effort fwd car and when it doesn't sell claim "it's no market for them".

 

We've seen Ford 2nd themselves on the U.S. Ranger. who knows?, a "Taurus", an Falcon replacement or "Thunderbird" sedan based off Explorer would nothing but add money to Ford's bottom line. Millions living in cities wouldn't want an ST Explorer like-vehicle or have small kids and have no use for a Mustang but an Charger-sized performance sedan from a 2.3 engine to the rumoured 7.0 will win with Ford fans and buyers alike.

[atonge40]

My Money is on a future Explorer ST having the high output 3.5L ecoboost.

 

It will be the 3.0L GTDI. Better fuel economy and similar power.

[akirby]

 

It will be the 3.0L GTDI. Better fuel economy and similar power.

 

That doesn't rule out a new 3.5T for Aviator.

[jasonj80]

Tell that to FCA or even Lincoln, don't build a boring, half-effort fwd car and when it doesn't sell claim "it's no market for them".

 

We've seen Ford 2nd themselves on the U.S. Ranger. who knows?, a "Taurus", an Falcon replacement or "Thunderbird" sedan based off Explorer would nothing but add money to Ford's bottom line. Millions living in cities wouldn't want an ST Explorer like-vehicle or have small kids and have no use for a Mustang but an Charger-sized performance sedan from a 2.3 engine to the rumoured 7.0 will win with Ford fans and buyers alike.

A RWD car between the Fusion and Taurus might sell well enough World Wide for it to be considered, specifically if they did a 4 Door and bigger 4 seat convertible. The NA market it would be police fleets and consumer but that PD would help volume, you'd have the specialty of the convertible and high performance models with much higher ATP's. The model would probably be also sold in China and Australia, as well as possibly Europe. 80K units world wide, if the ATP's were high enough the model could work, however it would be a big gamble to allocate those resources to that project. If you could sell 80K at $37,500 ATP you're at 3 billion in Revenue / year. Now figure your program is going to cost 500million. If you do that for 5 years you're at 15 billion, which would make your program costs 3.34% of total revenue, in profitability of the model say $5000 for 80K over 5 years at at 2billion, add in time efficiency of running the plant, is this going to require another shift? can you built them all in one plant? If I can make 1.5 billion over 5 years profit is it worth to invest in the model that is not a guaranteed success?

[Deanh]

with a little luck, being RWD , hopefully means they dont have to dial back HP and TQ in the first two gears....at least if the trans can handle it

[Fgts]

A RWD car between the Fusion and Taurus might sell well enough World Wide for it to be considered, specifically if they did a 4 Door and bigger 4 seat convertible. The NA market it would be police fleets and consumer but that PD would help volume, you'd have the specialty of the convertible and high performance models with much higher ATP's. The model would probably be also sold in China and Australia, as well as possibly Europe. 80K units world wide, if the ATP's were high enough the model could work, however it would be a big gamble to allocate those resources to that project. If you could sell 80K at $37,500 ATP you're at 3 billion in Revenue / year. Now figure your program is going to cost 500million. If you do that for 5 years you're at 15 billion, which would make your program costs 3.34% of total revenue, in profitability of the model say $5000 for 80K over 5 years at at 2billion, add in time efficiency of running the plant, is this going to require another shift? can you built them all in one plant? If I can make 1.5 billion over 5 years profit is it worth to invest in the model that is not a guaranteed success?

The rwd sedan would be the Taurus, it won't fit under the Taurus. Lincoln finds it worthwhile to make a sedan or 2 from this platform. Speaking of platforms since it's modular that means it can be made in more then one location with multiple vehicle made of it which reduces overhead costs, Ford did it with the 80's Fox platform which was probably less versatile then this platform.

[silvrsvt]

We've been talking about a new RWD sedan from Ford for almost 20 years and it still hasn't happened. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

 

Tell that to FCA or even Lincoln, don't build a boring, half-effort fwd car and when it doesn't sell claim "it's no market for them".

We've seen Ford 2nd themselves on the U.S. Ranger. who knows?, a "Taurus", an Falcon replacement or "Thunderbird" sedan based off Explorer would nothing but add money to Ford's bottom line. Millions living in cities wouldn't want an ST Explorer like-vehicle or have small kids and have no use for a Mustang but an Charger-sized performance sedan from a 2.3 engine to the rumoured 7.0 will win with Ford fans and buyers alike.

 

 

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2018/01/large-car-sales-america-december-2017/

 

From 2015 till 2017, the Large sedan market shrunk nearly 24%

[tzach]

Ill be interested to see if there is an impact on sales from moving from front wheel drive to rear drive wheel drive on the Explorer. The vast majority of non-enthusiasts do not view front wheel drive unfavorably, particularly those living in cold weather states. Im curious to see if they lose sales in those cold weather states, due to people declining to spend the extra money on the four-wheel-drive system or they cant afford it.

Doubt it, if you look on lots in the N.J. you would be hard pressed to find an Explorer that is not AWD. Most people buy what is on the lot.

[akirby]

The rwd sedan would be the Taurus, it won't fit under the Taurus.

 

It will be a midsizer, not full sized if we see it at all. Although today's midsized sedans are almost as big as the old full sized sedans.

[jasonj80]

The rwd sedan would be the Taurus, it won't fit under the Taurus. Lincoln finds it worthwhile to make a sedan or 2 from this platform. Speaking of platforms since it's modular that means it can be made in more then one location with multiple vehicle made of it which reduces overhead costs, Ford did it with the 80's Fox platform which was probably less versatile then this platform.

It just isn't efficient to do so, and CD6 isn't really a platform, in the way that Ford used to have things. Suppliers need to be setup in that area to support the plant etc and there are still variation, building 10K here and 10 K there just doesn't work even with the new architecture. What the vehicle is called is irreverent. I would assume if produced it would be Falcon for AU/EU and maybe Taurus here though I could see Falcon or Thunderbird used as well. I was just making the business case for such a project.

 

The term "platform" is also outdated with these new vehicles. CD6 is an architecture so to speak and then you have modules that fit on that, the new Focus C3 is a similar concept. The common architecture is across all models, Engine placement, electronic bus, front axle and firewall placement are all the same. The modules come in from everything from suspension design, interior packaging to wheel bases.You can make 60%-70% of everything the same on those vehicles produced even though the customer never notices the difference. Things like different wheel bases can fairly easily be accommodated with different modules so to speak. It is exactly what Honda, Toyota, VW, Subaru, BMW among others are doing.

Edited February 1, 2018 by jasonj80

[akirby]

I've been trying to call CD6 an architecture for that reason. It's much more flexible than a traditional Ford platform. That's why it seems to be a no brainer that Mustang would move to CD6 architecture.

[Deanh]

The reason the Taurus died on the vine was its interior volume belied its exterior dimensions, it wasnt much larger in the inside than the Fusion..........and dare I say there was less knee room in the Taurus...

[bzcat]

 

That doesn't rule out a new 3.5T for Aviator.

 

I'm assuming Ford has big export plans for both Explorer and Aviator this time around so 3.0T makes sense. Just turn up the boost...

 

3.5T puts the vehicle in exotic luxury car territory in terms of displacement taxes and you are asking Aviator 3.5T to compete with other luxury brands with more powerful 4.0T V8s

[jasonj80]

The reason the Taurus died on the vine was its interior volume belied its exterior dimensions, it wasnt much larger in the inside than the Fusion..........and dare I say there was less knee room in the Taurus...

No update other than some new tail lamps (Which are still some of the nicest in the Ford lineup) and Sync 3 in 9 years didn't help the sales cause either.

[jasonj80]

 

I'm assuming Ford has big export plans for both Explorer and Aviator this time around so 3.0T makes sense. Just turn up the boost...

 

3.5T puts the vehicle in exotic luxury car territory in terms of displacement taxes and you are asking Aviator 3.5T to compete with other luxury brands with more powerful 4.0T V8s

Always found it odd the 2.7L or 3.0L didn't turn up in the navigator for Export to China for that exact reason. Though this is a good problem to have - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/01/ford-is-selling-90000-suvs-faster-than-it-can-make-them.html

[akirby]

 

I'm assuming Ford has big export plans for both Explorer and Aviator this time around so 3.0T makes sense. Just turn up the boost...

 

3.5T puts the vehicle in exotic luxury car territory in terms of displacement taxes and you are asking Aviator 3.5T to compete with other luxury brands with more powerful 4.0T V8s

 

I get all that but I'd put the new 3.5T up against most of those 4.0T V8s. An ecoboost 4.0T or 4.2T would make more sense for Lincoln.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

I get all that but I'd put the new 3.5T up against most of those 4.0T V8s. An ecoboost 4.0T or 4.2T would make more sense for Lincoln.

Wasn't there supposed to be one coming? I bet Fields cancelled it.

[tbone]

The reason the Taurus died on the vine was its interior volume belied its exterior dimensions, it wasnt much larger in the inside than the Fusion..........and dare I say there was less knee room in the Taurus...

I can attest to this having had both vehicles.

[ice-capades]

In the cold weather states, Dealers don't stock anything other than Explorer 4WD models. If a customer insists on a 2WD model they have to place a factory order with a non-refundable deposit.

[Fgts]

 

It will be a midsizer, not full sized if we see it at all. Although today's midsized sedans are almost as big as the old full sized sedans.

I'm thinking a Fusion and "Falcon" would be the same relationship as the Malibu and SS. The SS wasn't really a full-size but bigger then the Malibu and much more spacious inside, besides buyers have SUV/CUVs and trucks as today's "land-yachts". The rwd Continental can be closer to classic full-size car dimensions though.

[fuzzymoomoo]

The rwd Continental can be closer to classic full-size car dimensions though.

I fully expect that assuming they can make it fit in the plant. Its a tight fit as it currently is in certain areas of paint and final. I feel theyve already extended some of the carriers as far as they can in final to fit the long wheelbase.

[akirby]

I'm thinking a Fusion and "Falcon" would be the same relationship as the Malibu and SS. The SS wasn't really a full-size but bigger then the Malibu and much more spacious inside, besides buyers have SUV/CUVs and trucks as today's "land-yachts". The rwd Continental can be closer to classic full-size car dimensions though.

By all means let Ford mimic the SS because it was SO successful..........

 

Leave the extra room to Lincoln. A current Fusion sized Tbird would be perfect.

[Fgts]

By all means let Ford mimic the SS because it was SO successful..........

 

 

???, I'm talking size-wise, not sales and execution. Another example is Altima/Maxima the Altima is the midsize while the Maxima is the fullsize, didn't want to use that example because both are the same car with different style.