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Deanh

news coming....

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Posted (edited)

Pictures worth a thousand words - to me this looks way better than anything from Tesla, the Euro's, or Asia...

Can't wait to see it in a real color.

 

IMG_0083_MachE.JPG

IMG_0084_MachE.JPG

Edited by Kev-Mo

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Kev-Mo said:

Pictures worth a thousand words - to me this looks way better than anything from Tesla, the Euro's, or Asia...

Can't wait to see it in a real color.


I saw one in Grabber Blue last week when I was taking my wife to her OB appointment in Dearborn. I still hate that color but it looks way better in person than in the pictures, and I already liked it before. 
 

I also got a few pictures of a Bronco prototype on the road, and saw a few 2021 F-150s towing trailers. It was a good day for car spotting for me. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

I think the issue here is with Ford having used a reservation system, I think people are of the thinking that Ford set the price and that's what it is because it's using a different system than the traditional dealer setup, when in fact, it's the exact same setup, aside from you jumping in line for allocation.


They also changed the pricing with dealer invoice and MSRP being the same and the dealer getting a fixed profit on each sale from Ford.  It sure seemed that the price was fixed.

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What happens if a bunch of people pick the same dealer when submitting their reservations... seems like the reservation system would only work if allocations are tied to the reservations instead of the dealers.

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33 minutes ago, CoolScoop said:

What happens if a bunch of people pick the same dealer when submitting their reservations... seems like the reservation system would only work if allocations are tied to the reservations instead of the dealers.


There are no dealer allocations for reservations as far as I know.

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2 hours ago, akirby said:


They also changed the pricing with dealer invoice and MSRP being the same and the dealer getting a fixed profit on each sale from Ford.  It sure seemed that the price was fixed.

 

Yeah, don't know.

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just confirmed...we are sticking to the original idea...MSRP...

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24 minutes ago, Deanh said:

just confirmed...we are sticking to the original idea...MSRP...

 

Hmm, interesting!

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I do not like the standard body colored grill.

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22 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

I think the issue here is with Ford having used a reservation system, I think people are of the thinking that Ford set the price and that's what it is because it's using a different system than the traditional dealer setup, when in fact, it's the exact same setup, aside from you jumping in line for allocation.

 

Yes sir rmc523, some people may have incorrectly thought that a Mach-E reservation represents an online order for the vehicle. It is nothing of the sort.

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On 6/23/2020 at 4:07 PM, ice-capades said:

Quite frankly, in my market the Mach-E interest is minimal if not close to nonexistent. We had one customer reservation early on but was cancelled less than two weeks later. And I have a stack of Mach-E brochures on display in our brochure rack and there's very few that have been taken since they were received from Ford. I'll wait and see what happens when we actually see the vehicle... whenever that happens. 

 

Thank you as always ice-capades sir for sharing your dealership perspective. What you described regarding poor response to Mustang Mach-E in your local market is disappointing, but not surprising. All of the incumbent automakers are having trouble coming up with effective product planning and marketing strategies for BEV.

 

Tesla's dominance in the U.S. BEV market is only going to increase in the coming years.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thank you as always ice-capades sir for sharing your dealership perspective. What you described regarding poor response to Mustang Mach-E in your local market is disappointing, but not surprising. All of the incumbent automakers are having trouble coming up with effective product planning and marketing strategies for BEV.

 

Tesla's dominance in the U.S. BEV market is only going to increase in the coming years.

 

Lol, seriously?

 

Yes.  8 Billion competing models debuting, and you think Teslas going to INCREASE their share of BEV market which they currently own?*

 

Ok.......

 

 

 

*solely because they're the only volume player

Edited by rmc523

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6 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Lol, seriously?

 

 

Yes sir. ice-capades' experience with Mustang Mach-E isn't unexpected. So called "Tesla killers" from Jaguar, Audi, and Porsche have not only failed to kill Tesla, they haven't had much impact in the U.S. BEV market in general. The other startup companies making BEV and FCEV passenger cars and light trucks like Rivian, Faraday Future, Lordstown Motors, Nikola etc. also haven't caught up to Tesla and don't show signs of doing so soon.

 

Meanwhile, Tesla continues to expand its product lineup (Model Y started production this year, Cybertruck and 2nd gen Roadster expected within the next couple years) and keeps raising the bar higher and higher for design, engineering, and marketing of BEV.

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55 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir. ice-capades' experience with Mustang Mach-E isn't unexpected. So called "Tesla killers" from Jaguar, Audi, and Porsche have not only failed to kill Tesla, they haven't had much impact in the U.S. BEV market in general. The other startup companies making BEV and FCEV passenger cars and light trucks like Rivian, Faraday Future, Lordstown Motors, Nikola etc. also haven't caught up to Tesla and don't show signs of doing so soon.

 

Meanwhile, Tesla continues to expand its product lineup (Model Y started production this year, Cybertruck and 2nd gen Roadster expected within the next couple years) and keeps raising the bar higher and higher for design, engineering, and marketing of BEV.

 

Design = cutting and pasting the basic Model S design from 2012 onto even the newest vehicle that debuted in 2019.

Engineering = Ongoing production issues, terrible initial quality, weeks- or months-long wait time for repair parts

Marketing = I'll give you this one; they've definitely created a cult-like following that is doing a lot of guerilla marketing for them

 

I'll trust any of the traditional manufacturers' logistics train for a BEV long before I ever consider trusting Tesla.

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Yes sir. ice-capades' experience with Mustang Mach-E isn't unexpected. So called "Tesla killers" from Jaguar, Audi, and Porsche have not only failed to kill Tesla, they haven't had much impact in the U.S. BEV market in general. The other startup companies making BEV and FCEV passenger cars and light trucks like Rivian, Faraday Future, Lordstown Motors, Nikola etc. also haven't caught up to Tesla and don't show signs of doing so soon.

 

Meanwhile, Tesla continues to expand its product lineup (Model Y started production this year, Cybertruck and 2nd gen Roadster expected within the next couple years) and keeps raising the bar higher and higher for design, engineering, and marketing of BEV.

 

Nobody has said individual models will "kill" Tesla overnight.   Obviously that won't happen, and the models you've listed have either recently debuted or aren't even out yet, so not sure what your point is there.

 

The point is, to think Tesla will maintain a stranglehold on the BEV market when its basically the only option right now is delusional.

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12 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

The point is, to think Tesla will maintain a stranglehold on the BEV market when its basically the only option right now is delusional.

 

It's not delusional. Tesla is unique among major global companies making automobiles today in that it has never sold ICE powered vehicles and never will. Since the future of the automotive industry is 100% electric, Tesla has a huge head start over the incumbent automakers. When the incumbents completely phase out ICE powered vehicles including hybrids, then Tesla may have to worry about erosion in its market share. But as mentioned in my previous post, efforts from Jaguar and Audi, whose I-Pace and e-tron models were introduced in 2018, and Porsche, whose Taycan came out last year, have failed to make much of an impact in the U.S. BEV market.  

 

I hope the time when incumbent automakers present serious competition to Tesla comes sooner rather than later. But none of the U.S. market BEV models currently available or being released later in 2020 from those companies including Mustang Mach-E come close to doing that.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

It's not delusional. Tesla is unique among major global companies making automobiles today in that it has never sold ICE powered vehicles and never will. Since the future of the automotive industry is 100% electric, Tesla has a huge head start over the incumbent automakers. When the incumbents completely phase out ICE powered vehicles including hybrids, then Tesla may have to worry about erosion in its market share. But as mentioned in my previous post, efforts from Jaguar and Audi, whose I-Pace and e-tron models were introduced in 2018, and Porsche, whose Taycan came out last year, have failed to make much of an impact in the U.S. BEV market.  

 

I hope the time when incumbent automakers present serious competition to Tesla comes sooner rather than later. But none of the U.S. market BEV models currently available or being released later in 2020 from those companies including Mustang Mach-E come close to doing that.

 

So you're admitting Tesla's marketshare will shrink with time?   That's all I've been saying.  You've been saying Tesla's dominance will continue - as if nothing's going to happen, they're going to remain the only option out there.

 

So you know how Mach E will do before it's out?  ok.

 

I'm not discussing it further, there's no point.

Edited by rmc523

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4 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thank you as always ice-capades sir for sharing your dealership perspective. What you described regarding poor response to Mustang Mach-E in your local market is disappointing, but not surprising. All of the incumbent automakers are having trouble coming up with effective product planning and marketing strategies for BEV.

 

Tesla's dominance in the U.S. BEV market is only going to increase in the coming years.

 

 

Are you freaking serious? So your focusing so much negativity on a single report in from a dealership in CT with a product that is brand new and hasn't been released yet?

 

Tesla is only successful because they zelots that own them that are willing to over look the issues they have with them. People are going to get tired of dealing with shit and move on to other options out there. 

 

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2 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Tesla is only successful because they zelots that own them that are willing to over look the issues they have with them. People are going to get tired of dealing with shit and move on to other options out there.

 

No sir, Tesla is successful because it offers the best BEV products and associated services such as fast charging. No other company comes close.

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8 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

No sir, Tesla is successful because it offers the best BEV products and associated services such as fast charging. No other company comes close.

 

Don't forget their industry-leading quality (sarcasm).  If you like owning the worst built cars on the planet, Tesla is your company.

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6 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

If you like owning the worst built cars on the planet, Tesla is your company.

 

I like my "worst built on the planet" 2018 Model S 75D a lot, more than any motor vehicle with 4 wheels I've owned over the years. My wife and I expect our Mustang Mach-E will be a very enjoyable car too. Autonation Ford got our order in last week. Hope to take delivery in early 2021.

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How could you order one?  It's a failure.  They're bulldozing the factory as we speak.

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33 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

I like my "worst built on the planet" 2018 Model S 75D a lot, more than any motor vehicle with 4 wheels I've owned over the years. My wife and I expect our Mustang Mach-E will be a very enjoyable car too. Autonation Ford got our order in last week. Hope to take delivery in early 2021.

 

Good for you!  I love my 1994 F-150 too.  Lets have this discussion again in 26 years and you can tell us how your Model S has fared throughout the years.  

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There's a difference between perception and reality but there's a parallel with another company... Apple. For years Apple was a computer company but that stopped years ago when they transitioned into a consumer electronics firm. They do creative packaging to develop the "cool" factor that so many people jumped at after the iPhone was introduced. With few exceptions, each year a good share of iPhone owners jumped at the opportunity to pay the price for the latest version. The iPhone really hasn't changed much over the years... they've just continued to tweak it with each new generation. And their owner body is incredibly loyal. How often do you hear an iPhone owner complain? Not often, I'll guess. 

 

Tesla jumped into the market producing only BEV vehicles and being the only manufacturer producing BEV's in volume. With a vehicle that looked different from anything else available, a new sales model, etc. they had the "cool" factor from the beginning whether you like the product or not. And Tesla owners will defend the product in much the same way that Apple owners do. As noted above, a number of other manufacturers have recently entered the BEV market, or will soon, with new models but none of those currently available have gotten much attention. In the meantime, Tesla now produces multiple models in volume in their plants in the USA, China and next year in Germany. And they have another advantage over all the other manufacturers... battery supply!

 

I think Ford will do well with the Mustang Mach-E but they're going to be seriously constrained with capacity until they can develop/negotiate the battery supply in order to compete successfully on a volume basis. Until the vehicle is actually available and can be seen and driven it's appeal will continue to be limited to those that are either serious prospects or BEV enthusiasts. With only 50,000 Mach-E's to be available the first year, with half going to Europe, it'll take time (years?) and a lot more production capacity to make much of an impact. It's very possible that once the vehicle is out on the market that they'll find the demand will be there for a lot more than they can produce, at least for the first year. Let's hope that the Mach-E launch is a success, that there's a lot of demand once it's out on the road... and that Ford's has the extra production capacity lined up to satisfy the demand! Unfortunately, their own Dealers could hurt the situation with ADM's so let's hope that Ford develops a better sales model that be more appropriate. 

 

Just my quick thoughts to try to add to the conversation by looking at the BEV market from a different perspective, etc. 

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Posted (edited)

My cynical view is that Ford will always have a reason as to why Mach E production is constrained

and therefore can charge much more for it. Tell me I'm wrong but this sounds like Ford to a Tee.

 

Ford had years to get battery supply organised for Mach E but settled on 50,000 because it

didn't know how strong actual sales demand would be, not surprising when the vehicle was

changed massively from the original C-Max BEV.

Edited by jpd80

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