akirby Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 19 minutes ago, Flying68 said: Yes, it is counter productive for any company to blacklist their industry media. There is no positive that can come from it. Preventing leaks is a you responsibility not a them responsibility. Of course there is. Other outlets will think twice before publishing unauthorized pics and information. Lets say your company has someone feeding a journalist inside info months before a product launch and that person keeps publishing it and you have not been able to identify the source. Are you saying that’s hunky dory and you wouldn’t blame the journalist or ask them to stop? Hogwash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying68 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 4 hours ago, akirby said: Of course there is. Other outlets will think twice before publishing unauthorized pics and information. Lets say your company has someone feeding a journalist inside info months before a product launch and that person keeps publishing it and you have not been able to identify the source. Are you saying that’s hunky dory and you wouldn’t blame the journalist or ask them to stop? Hogwash I think we disagree with where responsibility lies. Your viewpoint is that the blame is on the publisher and not on the information provider. Mine is that because the information is coming from an internal source, the blame lies internally. Media has a job and that is to report anything newsworthy. Ford chose to punish them. That is their right. TFL also has no obligation to report on Ford news, and now won't be able to report on Ford products as easily, thus reducing the amount of coverage available to Ford and shifting that to a direct competitor. I value that lost publicity more than I value the loss that any of those pictures could have generated (at this stage). The former goes straight to a competitor, the latter does not. I would rather lose a dollar down the drain rather than hand that dollar to my chief competitor. This also doesn't account for the benefit to Ford as it did generate some publicity and excitement before the reveal, so that lost dollar down the drain may have resulted in some good. I understand everyone that works for Ford feels betrayed in some sense, but the real betrayal is on the inside. Given time, this will probably pass. Hopefully it passes before the real media events start again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 How many times will we go back and forth with the same points lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 On 7/9/2020 at 8:06 AM, Flying68 said: Yes, it is counter productive for any company to blacklist their industry media. There is no positive that can come from it. Preventing leaks is a you responsibility not a them responsibility. When media wants to build a relationship with a manufacturer and is given the privilege of getting preproduction models for testing. And then given the privilege to be able to write their articles so they can be published immediately at the time of unveiling (which gives them clicks, advertisement and income)... well that said publication KNOWS that the manufacturer would not want these photos published. And when they know the OEM would not want them published but chooses to do so anyways, well it is on the publication then who chose to ruin that relationship. That was an idiotic move for them to publish those. And their video said they dont owe the OEM anything, they owe it to the people to publish it. Since it is the relationship with the people you care about, then there should be no issue with the OEM dropping your special privileges that they had given you. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 On 7/9/2020 at 12:54 PM, Flying68 said: I think we disagree with where responsibility lies. Your viewpoint is that the blame is on the publisher and not on the information provider. Mine is that because the information is coming from an internal source, the blame lies internally. Media has a job and that is to report anything newsworthy. Ford chose to punish them. That is their right. TFL also has no obligation to report on Ford news, and now won't be able to report on Ford products as easily, thus reducing the amount of coverage available to Ford and shifting that to a direct competitor. I value that lost publicity more than I value the loss that any of those pictures could have generated (at this stage). The former goes straight to a competitor, the latter does not. I would rather lose a dollar down the drain rather than hand that dollar to my chief competitor. This also doesn't account for the benefit to Ford as it did generate some publicity and excitement before the reveal, so that lost dollar down the drain may have resulted in some good. I understand everyone that works for Ford feels betrayed in some sense, but the real betrayal is on the inside. Given time, this will probably pass. Hopefully it passes before the real media events start again. The blame lies on both the leaker and TFL. This isn’t whistleblower stuff. The public doesn’t have a right to that stuff. I guarantee if you took those photos to motor trend or car and driver they would not be the first ones to publish them. It’s just not done. I also guarantee that TFL will apologize soon and make up with Ford. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 9 hours ago, akirby said: The blame lies on both the leaker and TFL. This isn’t whistleblower stuff. The public doesn’t have a right to that stuff. I guarantee if you took those photos to motor trend or car and driver they would not be the first ones to publish them. It’s just not done. I also guarantee that TFL will apologize soon and make up with Ford. Correct but Ford still isn't taking their calls and probably won't for a while yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 5 hours ago, jpd80 said: Correct but Ford still isn't taking their calls and probably won't for a while yet. I figured Ford wouldn’t say much (if anything) to them until after the Bronco reveal. I don’t think TFL could have done anything to get re-invited to the Bronco reveal, so there’s no point in holding discussions before that event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 14 hours ago, CurtisH said: I figured Ford wouldn’t say much (if anything) to them until after the Bronco reveal. I don’t think TFL could have done anything to get re-invited to the Bronco reveal, so there’s no point in holding discussions before that event. The fact that they never took the offending pictures down tells Ford that TFL is not sorry. I wouldn't be surprised if Ford wipes them for good. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Well if anyone here remembers Mike Parkhurst, the late founder of Overdrive, he had a strong dislike for Ford which I believe stemmed from Ford's use of rail to ship new trucks vs. "drive away" or car haulers for smaller trucks. Somewhere in my "archives" I have the issue in which he covered the new Louisville and he did a complete hatchet job on it. IMO holding a grudge when it comes to the press that covers your industry doesn't get you much-other than maybe more bad press than you deserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 On 7/8/2020 at 1:21 PM, kyle said: Ya but these are reposted from another site.....and were everywhere! Not quite the same thing:) Plus, like his son said, what are they going to do to us! That's a good point. They can get away with pretty much anything now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 On 7/8/2020 at 9:44 PM, Flying68 said: Just my opinion, but it seems that several people seem to be taking this personally like they themselves have been violated. I look at it from a shareholder and enthusiast standpoint. Those leeks won't affect the bottom line or competitive advantage and serve to keep interest up. I am sure going to miss seeing Ford compete in the Golden Hitch competition or seeing some real world comparisons. But I will keep watching regardless. I can just see this one. Well, we don't know what the F-150 can do blah blah because they chose to not work with us and keep rubbing salt into the wound. I think Ford has more to lose in this battle. Many people consider TFL the gold standard of reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, MKX1960 said: That's a good point. They can get away with pretty much anything now. If they go overboard then other mfrs will disown them too. They just need to man up and apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, MKX1960 said: Many people consider TFL the gold standard of reviews. Ford sells well over a million trucks every year. 99.9% of them never heard of TFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, akirby said: If they go overboard then other mfrs will disown them too. They just need to man up and apologize. From what I've seen on Bronco6g, many believe Ford sanctioned most of the leaks from TFL. While it's true that TFL probably has a good idea where to find vehicles out testing, it's happened far too often with Bronco. In one video the 2 drivers actually wave to each other and the Bronco driver changes lanes many times to allow the TFL driver to get photos from all angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, akirby said: Ford sells well over a million trucks every year. 99.9% of them never heard of TFL. 766k do for sure and plenty of others that end up there because they've viewed trucks at others sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, MKX1960 said: From what I've seen on Bronco6g, many believe Ford sanctioned most of the leaks from TFL. While it's true that TFL probably has a good idea where to find vehicles out testing, it's happened far too often with Bronco. In one video the 2 drivers actually wave to each other and the Bronco driver changes lanes many times to allow the TFL driver to get photos from all angles. All of the “leaks” were authorized except the ones of the front and rear locker switches and sway bar disconnect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, MKX1960 said: 766k do for sure and plenty of others that end up there because they've viewed trucks at others sites. So you’re one of the 766k - did you buy a truck in the last 12 months? Do you think all 766k bought a Ford? You’re dreaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, akirby said: So you’re one of the 766k - did you buy a truck in the last 12 months? Do you think all 766k bought a Ford? You’re dreaming. I am one of the 766k. I bought a Raptor in May of 2018 right before the fire at Ford's supplier and it delayed the build by 2 weeks. I'm not sure why you think I expect everyone that follows TFL would buy a Ford, since they review all brands? Since F-150 is the best selling truck, I'm sure they do have some influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 13 hours ago, MKX1960 said: I am one of the 766k. I bought a Raptor in May of 2018 right before the fire at Ford's supplier and it delayed the build by 2 weeks. I'm not sure why you think I expect everyone that follows TFL would buy a Ford, since they review all brands? Since F-150 is the best selling truck, I'm sure they do have some influence. I don’t think they have very much influence at all. Nor do the other blogs or websites or magazines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolScoop Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, akirby said: I don’t think they have very much influence at all. Nor do the other blogs or websites or magazines. I dismissed all of them years ago and put zero weight on what any of them report. If I followed their advice I would've missed out on a bunch of satisfying Ford ownership experiences over the years. I look past all of their petty personal opinions, do my own research, trust my gut feelings, then order exactly what I want sight unseen. Don't even bother to test drive them first and have never been disappointed. But I would have been disappointed many times had I listened to the self proclaimed experts. I had eight months of doom and gloom reporting to cancel our Aviator GT... sure glad I didn't listen, again!!! Edited July 12, 2020 by CoolScoop 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted July 12, 2020 Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) "The Gold Standard" I'd say the gold standard for truck testing and reviews was Mike Levine and his PUTC Shootouts that he started in 2008. Mark Williams took over and improved it in a lot of ways. But they both left and the site has been tanked by cars.com Extreme Traction-Control Test https://youtu.be/LFJI0tLMVpI Check out this early Raptor review by TFL. They have since upgraded their production but they are not what pickuptrucks.com once was. TFLcar.com - First Drive: Ford 2010 F-150 SVT Raptor https://youtu.be/0wqvyN4wcbM Michael Coles9 years ago All I can say is wow. This is supposed to be a review from "automotive journalists"? Thank goodness FORD wasn't listening to the "automotive journalists when they decided to build the Raptor. Journalist are supposed to report facts and factory claims, review the vehicle and then report on whether the product lives up to those facts/claims. Opinion is fine as long as it's educated. Know the product you're reviewing, THEN give us you're opinion. Edited July 12, 2020 by Bryan1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, CoolScoop said: I dismissed all of them years ago and put zero weight on what any of them report. If I followed their advice I would've missed out on a bunch of satisfying Ford ownership experiences over the years. I look past all of their petty personal opinions, do my own research, trust my gut feelings, then order exactly what I want sight unseen. Don't even bother to test drive them first and have never been disappointed. But I would have been disappointed many times had I listened to the self proclaimed experts. I had eight months of doom and gloom reporting to cancel our Aviator GT... sure glad I didn't listen, again!!! The only reason I ever do a test drive is just to kill time while the dealer preps the paperwork. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 4 hours ago, Bryan1 said: I'd say the gold standard for truck testing and reviews was Mike Levine and his PUTC Shootouts that he started in 2008. Mark Williams took over and improved it in a lot of ways. But they both left and the site has been tanked by cars.com Well it worked out for Mike, he works for Ford now.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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