jasonj80 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 hour ago, FordBuyer said: I would still say the Sport is priced too high. I've been in a Renegade many times and owned a Limited Crosstrek that stickered for $27,000. With the Crosstrek, I lived on a rustic part of Michigan for the first few months on a rocky dirt road that was often rutted and flooded and the Crosstrek had no problem with it. Again, the Sport is priced too high and will be a problem as in huge rebates to move them. So if it doesn't sell they put rebates; if it does they get higher ATPs. Ford isn't trying to fill the factory with just Bronco Sport though, they will also be assembling the new small pickup. It is about profit and if people can't afford or don't want to pay the price there are other vehicles out there. Jeep also makes the Renegade in Italy for US/EU consumption with the Euro exchange rate at close to $1.20 i'd be shocked if Jeep is really making any profit on lower end Renegade's at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 27 minutes ago, jasonj80 said: So if it doesn't sell they put rebates; if it does they get higher ATPs. Ford isn't trying to fill the factory with just Bronco Sport though, they will also be assembling the new small pickup. It is about profit and if people can't afford or don't want to pay the price there are other vehicles out there. Jeep also makes the Renegade in Italy for US/EU consumption with the Euro exchange rate at close to $1.20 i'd be shocked if Jeep is really making any profit on lower end Renegade's at this time. Come on now......Ford's plan is to up charge up to $6,000 more than competition and throw big rebates if customers resist? That is poor way to do business. I believe the Sport is probably a better vehicle than the Renegade, but probably not $6,000 better. And I know it's not $4,000 better than the Subaru Crosstrek. No way. Ford messed up pricing on the 2020 Explorer and had to correct. It had to correct overpricing on the Escape with huge rebates. Ditto for Ecosport. Now here comes the overpriced Sport. The Sport is basically a subcompact cuv and priced like a compact cuv. I know I cross shopped the Escape Hybrid against the Rav4 and Crv and got the deal I wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Fixed that for you. Brain fart. I meant China. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 15 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: Come on now......Ford's plan is to up charge up to $6,000 more than competition and throw big rebates if customers resist? That is poor way to do business. I believe the Sport is probably a better vehicle than the Renegade, but probably not $6,000 better. And I know it's not $4,000 better than the Subaru Crosstrek. No way. Ford messed up pricing on the 2020 Explorer and had to correct. It had to correct overpricing on the Escape with huge rebates. Ditto for Ecosport. Now here comes the overpriced Sport. The Sport is basically a subcompact cuv and priced like a compact cuv. I know I cross shopped the Escape Hybrid against the Rav4 and Crv and got the deal I wanted. Stop reading internet propaganda. A loaded renegade trail hawk with a 1.3L turbo MSRP is $34,500. Bronco Sport badlands trim with the 2.0L ecoboost is $36K. They’ll have no problem selling Bronco Sports for the first year or so. They’ll probably add some rebates later on. And Renegade has $5250 in rebates right now. Yes you read that right. Ford is not going to go head to head on a price war. That is the recipe for disaster. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, FordBuyer said: Come on now......Ford's plan is to up charge up to $6,000 more than competition and throw big rebates if customers resist? That is poor way to do business. I believe the Sport is probably a better vehicle than the Renegade, but probably not $6,000 better. And I know it's not $4,000 better than the Subaru Crosstrek. No way. Ford messed up pricing on the 2020 Explorer and had to correct. It had to correct overpricing on the Escape with huge rebates. Ditto for Ecosport. Now here comes the overpriced Sport. The Sport is basically a subcompact cuv and priced like a compact cuv. I know I cross shopped the Escape Hybrid against the Rav4 and Crv and got the deal I wanted. You know it's better than a Crosstrek even though you haven't seen a BS in person? Ok. You keep comparing it to Renegade only and I'm not sure why. The true competitor in the Jeep lineup is the Compass, and the difference isn't what you quoted if you compare them - still more, but not as big. And, the reality is, Jeep has 3 products in the same general space - Renegade, Compass, and Cherokee, and they'll all be cross-shopped. Edited August 31, 2020 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 2 hours ago, FordBuyer said: Come on now......Ford's plan is to up charge up to $6,000 more than competition and throw big rebates if customers resist? That is poor way to do business. I believe the Sport is probably a better vehicle than the Renegade, but probably not $6,000 better. And I know it's not $4,000 better than the Subaru Crosstrek. No way. Ford messed up pricing on the 2020 Explorer and had to correct. It had to correct overpricing on the Escape with huge rebates. Ditto for Ecosport. Now here comes the overpriced Sport. The Sport is basically a subcompact cuv and priced like a compact cuv. I know I cross shopped the Escape Hybrid against the Rav4 and Crv and got the deal I wanted. Why are you comparing it to Renegade when it is the same size as Compass? Also, Bronco Sport is not a subcompact, it is compact. You know, like Compass and Crosstrek ? Subaru is probably under-pricing Crosstrek because it is a lifted Impreza. They have to consider the sales leakage to less profitable Impreza if they make Crosstrek more expensive, even though empirical evidence suggests people will probably pay slightly more for a Crosstrek in isolation. I think Subaru will separate Impreza and Crosstrek into two completely separate model next time to avoid this problem. The had the same issue back in the day with Legacy and Outback and the solution was to kill the Legacy wagon altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, bzcat said: Why are you comparing it to Renegade when it is the same size as Compass? Also, Bronco Sport is not a subcompact, it is compact. You know, like Compass and Crosstrek ? Subaru is probably under-pricing Crosstrek because it is a lifted Impreza. They have to consider the sales leakage to less profitable Impreza if they make Crosstrek more expensive, even though empirical evidence suggests people will probably pay slightly more for a Crosstrek in isolation. I think Subaru will separate Impreza and Crosstrek into two completely separate model next time to avoid this problem. The had the same issue back in the day with Legacy and Outback and the solution was to kill the Legacy wagon altogether. I owned a Crosstrek and it had about 50 cubic feet of cargo space, about the same as the Ecosport. My new Escape has 60 cubic ft of cargo space and takes up more space in garage as it's wider and longer. So my Escape is a compact and my Crosstrek was noticeably smaller. My Crosstrek AWD Limited cost $27,000 new. My new Escape hybrid, fwd SE with premium packsge cost $32,000 not counting sales tax and licensing fees. I'm happy with the 50mpg and no awd since FL has good roads and no snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 4 hours ago, FordBuyer said: I owned a Crosstrek and it had about 50 cubic feet of cargo space, about the same as the Ecosport. My new Escape has 60 cubic ft of cargo space and takes up more space in garage as it's wider and longer. So my Escape is a compact and my Crosstrek was noticeably smaller. My Crosstrek AWD Limited cost $27,000 new. My new Escape hybrid, fwd SE with premium packsge cost $32,000 not counting sales tax and licensing fees. I'm happy with the 50mpg and no awd since FL has good roads and no snow. Escape and Crosstrek are both classes as compacts, you've discovered the difference between efficient boxy design and the more swept back style of a Crosstrek. When it comes to space, the Ecosport punches above its weight division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Not totally related to this thread, but I have mentioned my car in here so I'll post it. This is my first trip to the mountains with the Fusion hybrid, and it's not so good. It's mostly due to the stupid CVT. On upgrades, the engine keeps revving higher and higher, with no downshifts. That's just annoying. On downgrades, it's worse. There's a "L" button on the transmission dial that's set TOO low. So your other option to hold speeds down(other than the stupid way) is the regen braking, but once the battery pack is full, that's not an option. It was a not fun descent on US 14-Alt over the Bighorn Mountains in Wyoming. That road has 13 miles of mostly 10% grade, and it was white knuckle all the way down. I didn't want to cook the brakes(the aforementioned stupid way), so went down it a little faster than I really wanted. That was the first and last time on that road for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 On 8/31/2020 at 5:41 PM, akirby said: Brain fart. I meant China. hahaha its ok...I knew what you ment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) It will be interesting to see actual ordering levels for Bronco Sport, Ford has been less forthcoming about buyer interest compared to the larger Bronco. I hope it does well but until we see actual sales figures and impact on Escape there are some questions. Edited September 2, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 19 hours ago, AGR said: Not totally related to this thread, but I have mentioned my car in here so I'll post it. This is my first trip to the mountains with the Fusion hybrid, and it's not so good. It's mostly due to the stupid CVT. On upgrades, the engine keeps revving higher and higher, with no downshifts. That's just annoying. On downgrades, it's worse. There's a "L" button on the transmission dial that's set TOO low. So your other option to hold speeds down(other than the stupid way) is the regen braking, but once the battery pack is full, that's not an option. It was a not fun descent on US 14-Alt over the Bighorn Mountains in Wyoming. That road has 13 miles of mostly 10% grade, and it was white knuckle all the way down. I didn't want to cook the brakes(the aforementioned stupid way), so went down it a little faster than I really wanted. That was the first and last time on that road for me. Ford fixed the downhill problem with the new Escape hybrid. On my Escape there is a little car hill icon that lights up when going down a grade that controls the speed. Pretty cool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 54 minutes ago, jpd80 said: It will be interesting to see actual ordering levels for Bronco Sport, Ford has been less forthcoming about buyer interest compared to the larger Bronco. I hope it does well but until we see actual sales figures and impact on Escape there are some questions. The Bronco Sport has replaced an PHEV Escape as our top pick for a new vehicle. We had planned on buying this year, but put the purchase off a year, once the Broncos were unveiled. Of course, i have to sit in and test drive the Bronco Sport first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passis Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Does anoyone what the projected annual production of Bronco Sport and Maverick (compared to Fusion/MKZ) as well as total capacity at Hermosillo are? Could Fusion active get squeezed in now that CX758 seems to be frozen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, mackinaw said: The Bronco Sport has replaced an PHEV Escape as our top pick for a new vehicle. We had planned on buying this year, but put the purchase off a year, once the Broncos were unveiled. Of course, i have to sit in and test drive the Bronco Sport first. This is going to happen alot. Ford will have to put cash on the hood to move (at least) the non-hybrid Escapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 3 hours ago, passis said: Does anoyone what the projected annual production of Bronco Sport and Maverick (compared to Fusion/MKZ) as well as total capacity at Hermosillo are? Could Fusion active get squeezed in now that CX758 seems to be frozen? Keep in mind the Transit Connect is also going to Hermosillo So figure 100K Bronco Sport 80-100k Maverick 45k for the Transit Connect (NA production-not sure about SA) I think the Bronco Sport might sell closer to 120K mark and the Maverick might be a suprise...so Ford has enough room to jiggle those three pretty effectively. I think Oakville will get the Fusion Active or whatever its called, if the Union negotiations work out. I think its a better fit and would replace the MKT/Flex production...hopefully it sells better then them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 2 hours ago, CKNSLS said: This is going to happen alot. Ford will have to put cash on the hood to move (at least) the non-hybrid Escapes. Depends-the Escape is 8 inches longer and has more legroom in the adjustable second row vs the Bronco Sport and might be a bit cheaper since it comes in FWD variants. Styling is debatable on the Escape-IMO most of B/C lineup is too bland looking to me..the Escape looks better in person, but EU Focus and Fiesta do zero for me. I think the Transit Connect has the best look overall out all of them for the front end treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 6 hours ago, FordBuyer said: Ford fixed the downhill problem with the new Escape hybrid. On my Escape there is a little car hill icon that lights up when going down a grade that controls the speed. Pretty cool. My car has that button, too. I surmise that it is a single button that activates the "Low" and the "Eco" (increased regen braking) functions. It didn't really work too well for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 2 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Keep in mind the Transit Connect is also going to Hermosillo So figure 100K Bronco Sport 80-100k Maverick 45k for the Transit Connect (NA production-not sure about SA) I think the Bronco Sport might sell closer to 120K mark and the Maverick might be a suprise...so Ford has enough room to jiggle those three pretty effectively. I think Oakville will get the Fusion Active or whatever its called, if the Union negotiations work out. I think its a better fit and would replace the MKT/Flex production...hopefully it sells better then them. I’m hoping that Jim Farley is more aggressive and uses Hackett’s ground work to do more and adds in a few more products that are nice to have but not essential, those decisions usually increase foot traffic through dealers an tend to benefit all models. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passis Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Keep in mind the Transit Connect is also going to Hermosillo 45k for the Transit Connect (NA production-not sure about SA) It's good that NA production of Transit is not affected by VW. But I thought the EV versions would take the vans next to the Mach E. If they were smart regarding SA (a big if) they would bring Transits and try to replace some of the trucks market, which they left recently. As a side note, truck production here is in high demand, due to Covid-driven deliveries. Edited September 3, 2020 by passis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 16 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Keep in mind the Transit Connect is also going to Hermosillo So figure 100K Bronco Sport 80-100k Maverick 45k for the Transit Connect (NA production-not sure about SA) I think the Bronco Sport might sell closer to 120K mark and the Maverick might be a suprise...so Ford has enough room to jiggle those three pretty effectively. I think Oakville will get the Fusion Active or whatever its called, if the Union negotiations work out. I think its a better fit and would replace the MKT/Flex production...hopefully it sells better then them. I think Ford will be expecting volume increase on Transit Connect if it is made in Mexico. No more Chicken Tax and shorter supply chain means Ford will open the flood gates on order combinations to suit the fleet demands. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, bzcat said: I think Ford will be expecting volume increase on Transit Connect if it is made in Mexico. No more Chicken Tax and shorter supply chain means Ford will open the flood gates on order combinations to suit the fleet demands. Not to mention that Ford likely loses its shirt on every Connect sold now due to the tax. They limit the sales just because of that. Edited September 3, 2020 by ausrutherford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 6 hours ago, bzcat said: I think Ford will be expecting volume increase on Transit Connect if it is made in Mexico. No more Chicken Tax and shorter supply chain means Ford will open the flood gates on order combinations to suit the fleet demands. They actually dropped the SWB version this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 On 9/4/2020 at 3:56 AM, bzcat said: I think Ford will be expecting volume increase on Transit Connect if it is made in Mexico. No more Chicken Tax and shorter supply chain means Ford will open the flood gates on order combinations to suit the fleet demands. I've heard the TC production at Mexico is cancelled, VW alliance is supplying Caddy based TC with AV versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 2 hours ago, jpd80 said: I've heard the TC production at Mexico is cancelled, VW alliance is supplying Caddy based TC with AV versions. I could have sworn that the Ford-VW deal said "Caddy 5". VW just debuted the Caddy 4, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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