Ford building new BEV F-150 facility

[Trailhiker]

32 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

How old is that map? 470 was complete in the early 80's and 3/4 of those railroads don't exist. 

I think I can still see a few wagon trails.

[jasonj80]

2 minutes ago, Trailhiker said:

I think I can still see a few wagon trails.

Well to be fair most U.S. routes do follow old wagon/native trails. 

[HotRunrGuy]

42 minutes ago, akirby said:

Ranger.  Escape, Corsair, F-150, SuperDuty, Transit, Continental?, Ecosport, Focus (ROW), Edge/Nautilus refresh, Navigator, Expedition

 

To be fair to CAP, which of those product launches above involved shutting down a high volume, in-production plant, clearing it out to the bare walls, and re-starting with a completely new platform/architecture, within the span of 31 days?

 

HRG

[fuzzymoomoo]

15 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

To be fair to CAP, which of those product launches above involved shutting down a high volume, in-production plant, clearing it out to the bare walls, and re-starting with a completely new platform/architecture, within the span of 31 days?

 

HRG

They did it at both Dearborn and Kansas City for 2015 F-150. 

[akirby]

39 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

To be fair to CAP, which of those product launches above involved shutting down a high volume, in-production plant, clearing it out to the bare walls, and re-starting with a completely new platform/architecture, within the span of 31 days?

 

HRG

 

F150 as Fuzzy pointed out, but that wasn't the point.  The assertion was Ford could not do flawless launches which is patently false.

[AGR]

1 hour ago, jasonj80 said:

How old is that map? 470 was complete in the early 80's and 3/4 of those railroads don't exist. 

 

Not only that, but Fairfax Municipal Airport is long gone.(near the middle of the map). That is now where the aforementioned GM plant is located.

 

Fuzzy's post about the railroads was correct, except the CGW was bought by Chicago & North Western, now part of UP.

[jcartwright99]

32 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

To be fair to CAP, which of those product launches above involved shutting down a high volume, in-production plant, clearing it out to the bare walls, and re-starting with a completely new platform/architecture, within the span of 31 days?

 

HRG

 

This is just my opinion on what I've observed so take it or leave it. I've lived in Chicago area for almost 14 years. The mentality in this state with any type of union job, work as little as you can while taking as much as you can. Nobody is afraid of losing their job over bad performance because they know they are protected (doesn't matter if it is public or private union). This state is about as corrupt as you can get in the US and cronyism is alive and well. Unions vote for corrupt politicians, and then get taken care of. I think Illinois has a systemic problem with the population of these workers and CAP is just example of that worker population of screwing up Ford production. 

 

Anecdotal, but I've met a handful of CAP workers since I've been here. None of them had any pride in what they did. They didn't drive Ford products and said they would never buy one knowing how things get put together in CAP. They bragged about how little they did and how they abused the system with no repercussions. Maybe these were just bad apples, as every workplace has them? However, they echo the union work force in this state.

 

It was shocking to me that they had that outlook. I've worked at a Ford plant in Michigan, and while there was a fair share of idiots, a lot of folks took pride in their work and Ford products. This is why I think Ford should close CAP. The more I've learned about CAP and it's problems, it seems like this is indicative of the workforce gone bad. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

16 minutes ago, AGR said:

 

Not only that, but Fairfax Municipal Airport is long gone.(near the middle of the map). That is now where the aforementioned GM plant is located.

 

Fuzzy's post about the railroads was correct, except the CGW was bought by Chicago & North Western, now part of UP.

I'm a train nerd, what can I say. I missed that one on the map though. 
 

it's interesting that for all the talk about how the northeast corridor is so essential to the US railroad system yet Kansas City is Basically the hub for the entire country. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by fuzzymoomoo

[fuzzymoomoo]

12 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

Anecdotal, but I've met a handful of CAP workers since I've been here. None of them had any pride in what they did. They didn't drive Ford products and said they would never buy one knowing how things get put together in CAP. They bragged about how little they did and how they abused the system with no repercussions. Maybe these were just bad apples, as every workplace has them? However, they echo the union work force in this state.

I doubt it's a few bad apples myself. Look at some of the stuff @Decker posts in the employee forum. It's unbelievable. 

[HotRunrGuy]

21 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I'm a train nerd, what can I say. I missed that one on the map though. 
 

it's interesting that for all the talk about how the northeast corridor is so essential to the US railroad system yet Kansas City is Basically the hub for the entire country. 

 

UP Big Boy # 4014 was in my town for 2-3 days last year, that's one big SOB,,,,,

 

https://www.up.com/heritage/steam/4014/index.htm

 

HRG

[jasonj80]

14 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

This is just my opinion on what I've observed so take it or leave it. I've lived in Chicago area for almost 14 years. The mentality in this state with any type of union job, work as little as you can while taking as much as you can. Nobody is afraid of losing their job over bad performance because they know they are protected (doesn't matter if it is public or private union). This state is about as corrupt as you can get in the US and cronyism is alive and well. Unions vote for corrupt politicians, and then get taken care of. I think Illinois has a systemic problem with the population of these workers and CAP is just example of that worker population of screwing up Ford production. 

 

Anecdotal, but I've met a handful of CAP workers since I've been here. None of them had any pride in what they did. They didn't drive Ford products and said they would never buy one knowing how things get put together in CAP. They bragged about how little they did and how they abused the system with no repercussions. Maybe these were just bad apples, as every workplace has them? However, they echo the union work force in this state.

 

It was shocking to me that they had that outlook. I've worked at a Ford plant in Michigan, and while there was a fair share of idiots, a lot of folks took pride in their work and Ford products. This is why I think Ford should close CAP. The more I've learned about CAP and it's problems, it seems like this is indicative of the workforce gone bad. 

Well there was a reason that everyone that worked at Ford wanted an Atlanta built Taurus vs a Chicago built one. Chicago's quality numbers were always at the bottom of the barrel while Atlanta's were at the top. It was the late 90's/early 2000's when I would go the difference in worker attitude and plant maintenance was night and day and that's not touching the illegal activity (gambling, drug dealing, sexual harassment, selling pirate copy media, etc) that used to take place on the Chicago plant floor that was just ignored, sure some of it went on in other plants but wouldn't be so obvious.

That plant should have closed 15 years ago, problem with plant closing is that on top of logistics and quality Ford land /legal get involved with what the property is worth and what political power can they extrude from that. That has an impact so Chicago land has no value, and significantly higher political capital so you keep it open as Atlanta has huge land value and less political capital. 

[jasonj80]

55 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I'm a train nerd, what can I say. I missed that one on the map though. 
 

it's interesting that for all the talk about how the northeast corridor is so essential to the US railroad system yet Kansas City is Basically the hub for the entire country. 

It is very sad how we decimated the railroads of the county to cater to the trucking industry. Everyday it seems a line is being ripped up and converted to a trail, then people complain there is too much truck traffic and congestion. Growing up there used to be a train every 5-10 min in Wyandotte, or every hour or two for the $1.00 shots at HRI, now it seems if one goes by when I'm there it is rare.   Granted when I was younger I was at HRI a lot more...

[fuzzymoomoo]

46 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

UP Big Boy # 4014 was in my town for 2-3 days last year, that's one big SOB,,,,,

 

https://www.up.com/heritage/steam/4014/index.htm

 

HRG

I would love to see 4014 live. I followed along with its restoration intently since they announced the program. I haven't heard of any plans of it coming to Michigan though. Even if it did the governor would find a way to shut it down I'm sure. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by fuzzymoomoo

[fuzzymoomoo]

11 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

It is very sad how we decimated the railroads of the county to cater to the trucking industry. Everyday it seems a line is being ripped up and converted to a trail, then people complain there is too much truck traffic and congestion. Growing up there used to be a train every 5-10 min in Wyandotte, or every hour or two for the $1.00 shots at HRI, now it seems if one goes by when I'm there it is rare.   Granted when I was younger I was at HRI a lot more...

CN is rumored to be considering selling the line heading south out of Flat Rock Yard.

 

I live near those lines you’re talking about, the closest one to me is the NS line that runs parallel to old Fort. Pre covid I would hear a train about once every hour to hour and a half. Now I'm lucky to hear 2 a day. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by fuzzymoomoo

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

This is just my opinion on what I've observed so take it or leave it. I've lived in Chicago area for almost 14 years. The mentality in this state with any type of union job, work as little as you can while taking as much as you can. Nobody is afraid of losing their job over bad performance because they know they are protected (doesn't matter if it is public or private union). This state is about as corrupt as you can get in the US and cronyism is alive and well. Unions vote for corrupt politicians, and then get taken care of. I think Illinois has a systemic problem with the population of these workers and CAP is just example of that worker population of screwing up Ford production. 

 

Anecdotal, but I've met a handful of CAP workers since I've been here. None of them had any pride in what they did. They didn't drive Ford products and said they would never buy one knowing how things get put together in CAP. They bragged about how little they did and how they abused the system with no repercussions. Maybe these were just bad apples, as every workplace has them? However, they echo the union work force in this state.

 

It was shocking to me that they had that outlook. I've worked at a Ford plant in Michigan, and while there was a fair share of idiots, a lot of folks took pride in their work and Ford products. This is why I think Ford should close CAP. The more I've learned about CAP and it's problems, it seems like this is indicative of the workforce gone bad. 

 

Its interesting making observations about work forces depending on what part of the country your from. I've heard several stories about different things going on in different places from employees that transferred from the Edison plant in NJ to other plants. 

 

• When Twin Cities was open-they would be virtually shut down the first day of hunting season due to unexcused absences -this shocked people who came from Edison
• There was undercover FBI agents that said they worked at Edison when people went to Kansas City Assembly to shut down a drug ring that was at the plant

I've also heard stories from friends who worked down south-the worked doing telecom stuff and they said they where doing an average of 5 jobs a day to the local guys only doing 2-3 a day. I get the North East can be a high pressure place and that is reflected in work ethic with some people, but other places are sure more laid back then we are. 

[jasonj80]

12 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

CN is rumored to be considering selling the line heading south out of Flat Rock Yard.

 

I live near those lines you’re talking about, the closest one to me is the NS line that runs parallel to old Fort. Pre covid I would hear a train about once every hour to hour and a half. Now I'm lucky to hear 2 a day. 

 Flat Rock is a fraction of what it used to be, especially after Henry Ford built it.  Was looking into the yard from 75 and it is all but abandoned. I think CN own the line to the NS mainline by Wauseon after that it is Indiana and Ohio (G&W) maybe they are going to take over the yard as well. Seems the Class 1 only want to do long distance travel and don't want to serve any local customers. 

[Decker]

42 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I doubt it's a few bad apples myself. Look at some of the stuff @Decker posts in the employee forum. It's unbelievable. 

 

We, those at CAP are a small group and getting smaller everyday that take pride in what and how we do our assignments. Accountability is only applied to this small group, that is one reason the group is getting smaller.

 

2020 CAP  Launch was a complete disaster. Not a single edge storm front by any description.

1) three different salaried launch leads

2) not one VOME support member with any experience with a launch

3) production salaried members refusing to engage with any launch processes

4) hourly and process coaches with at best months of manufacturing experience

5) manufacturing plan changes from the beginning (from one facility to two after start of MP1)

6) communication was non existent from NMPD stage on

7) 3 plant managers

8) 5 assistant/off shift managers

9) 4 -1/2 pages of hourly launch DROT members (9 members with prior launch experience) (untold number of assembler classification members)

10) ego`s from MAP, KTP, LAP and KC (all with a plan) (cooperate, work together, not so much) (begging whoever to not have to stay)

11) no CAP work force at the Chicago SHO Center (imagine 95K PHEV 611`s being assembled by ???)

12) SHO Center being managed by never before process coach's and those managers that lets just say was on the 2020 launch

Etc, Etc. Etc.

 

eliminated from webex access, removed from planning meetings, after expressing some very costly short comings in floor plan layout and stating every operation was over cycle, not getting H&S, ERGO, Standards buy off

44years in one plant in one department, instructing in and producing positive results in 19 launch processes, this old long hair stood corrected. "they do not want anything different here at CAP and now the Chicago SHO Center".

 

Illinois like so many other certain group controlled states is in the same boat as other like minded governed states. Illinois`s protests don`t rival other certain group controlled states but Illinois's mind set is completely the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

3 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

 Flat Rock is a fraction of what it used to be, especially after Henry Ford built it.  Was looking into the yard from 75 and it is all but abandoned. I think CN own the line to the NS mainline by Wauseon after that it is Indiana and Ohio (G&W) maybe they are going to take over the yard as well. Seems the Class 1 only want to do long distance travel and don't want to serve any local customers. 

The yard has been much more empty than usual since March. Even the trains that cross over Fort Street and Allen Road are much less common than they were. I can't remember the last time I was stopped by one. 

[AGR]

32 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I would love to see 4014 live. I followed along with its restoration intently since they announced the program. I haven't heard of any plans of it coming to Michigan though. Even if it did the governor would find a way to shut it down I'm sure. 

 

I drove out to Cheyenne last May for its inaugural run when it was double heading with UP #844. Then it passed through Central Iowa twice last summer. It was awesome! 

[tbone]

1 hour ago, jcartwright99 said:

 

This is just my opinion on what I've observed so take it or leave it. I've lived in Chicago area for almost 14 years. The mentality in this state with any type of union job, work as little as you can while taking as much as you can. Nobody is afraid of losing their job over bad performance because they know they are protected (doesn't matter if it is public or private union). This state is about as corrupt as you can get in the US and cronyism is alive and well. Unions vote for corrupt politicians, and then get taken care of. I think Illinois has a systemic problem with the population of these workers and CAP is just example of that worker population of screwing up Ford production. 

 

Anecdotal, but I've met a handful of CAP workers since I've been here. None of them had any pride in what they did. They didn't drive Ford products and said they would never buy one knowing how things get put together in CAP. They bragged about how little they did and how they abused the system with no repercussions. Maybe these were just bad apples, as every workplace has them? However, they echo the union work force in this state.

 

It was shocking to me that they had that outlook. I've worked at a Ford plant in Michigan, and while there was a fair share of idiots, a lot of folks took pride in their work and Ford products. This is why I think Ford should close CAP. The more I've learned about CAP and it's problems, it seems like this is indicative of the workforce gone bad. 

Which is exactly why I’m leaving this state permanently in eight days. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

3 minutes ago, AGR said:

 

I drove out to Cheyenne last May for its inaugural run when it was double heading with UP #844. Then it passed through Central Iowa twice last summer. It was awesome! 

Not gonna lie, when UP posted the video of 4014 sounding her whistle under her own steam for the first time in 60 years I about cried. 

[AGR]

44 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

It is very sad how we decimated the railroads of the county to cater to the trucking industry. Everyday it seems a line is being ripped up and converted to a trail, then people complain there is too much truck traffic and congestion. Growing up there used to be a train every 5-10 min in Wyandotte, or every hour or two for the $1.00 shots at HRI, now it seems if one goes by when I'm there it is rare.   Granted when I was younger I was at HRI a lot more...

What has made this worse recently is Precision Scheduled Railroading. Instead of 2-3 "normal" trains, they'll have one monster 2 or 3 mile long train, with remotely operated locomotives in the middle and end of the train in addition to the ones up front.

[AGR]

Sort of back on topic,. For the joint Ford-Rivian product, will that be built at Normal or at a Ford factory?

[fuzzymoomoo]

3 minutes ago, AGR said:

What has made this worse recently is Precision Scheduled Railroading. Instead of 2-3 "normal" trains, they'll have one monster 2 or 3 mile long train, with remotely operated locomotives in the middle and end of the train in addition to the ones up front.

I think you see that more out west in the middle of nowhere rather than anywhere near a city. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

Just now, AGR said:

Sort of back on topic,. For the joint Ford-Rivian product, will that be built at Normal or at a Ford factory?

Probably at the Rivian plant if I had to guess.