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Stray Kat

The New 6.8L V8 Thread

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I don't think a Godzilla-based 6.8 will ever see service in Mustang/F150.   

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3 hours ago, ESP08 said:

I don't think a Godzilla-based 6.8 will ever see service in Mustang/F150.   

Never is a long time, but I tend to agree. I think it being based on Godzilla makes it possible, but it doesn't seem probable.

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1 hour ago, SoonerLS said:

Never is a long time, but I tend to agree. I think it being based on Godzilla makes it possible, but it doesn't seem probable.


Being Godzilla based it was makes me doubt it will happen.   
 

Had it been a high-performance Boss-derived Predator replacement I could see it.  

 

A Godzilla based 6.8 doesn’t fit in the line up, it will get embarrassed by the HiPo 3.5 EcoBoost and will garner a ton of bad press if it goes into half-ton.   
 

It’ll be the “Ford Valdez” all over again

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3 hours ago, ESP08 said:


Being Godzilla based it was makes me doubt it will happen.   
 

Had it been a high-performance Boss-derived Predator replacement I could see it.  

 

A Godzilla based 6.8 doesn’t fit in the line up, it will get embarrassed by the HiPo 3.5 EcoBoost and will garner a ton of bad press if it goes into half-ton.   
 

It’ll be the “Ford Valdez” all over again

I doubt it will be that bad.  Let’s see the details first.  As it stands now, though, it doesn’t appear to bring anything to the table if it is simply a smaller displacement Godzilla.  Just use a lower output 7.3 in the super duty and continue with the Coyote in light duty applications.  So, unless this thing has some new whiz bang tech, it appears to be another boondoggle.

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11 hours ago, ESP08 said:

I don't think a Godzilla-based 6.8 will ever see service in Mustang/F150.   

A lot has changed in the past two years and look how Farley has drawn back from new ICE projects. So it wouldn’t surprise me if ideas of replacing the SC 5.2 have hit the bin and relocating the high performance line is an easier option. Ther may still be a 6.8 V8 option for super duty trucks to replace the 6.2 but beyond that, maybe BEV development is now way more important to Ford.

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From todays Ford Authority...

 

Sources tell us that the 2023 Ford Super Duty 6.8L V8 gasoline engine will boast Dual Equal Variable Camshaft Timing (DEVCT) technology as well as port fuel injection. Ford enthusiasts may note that these technologies are already found on the Ford 7.3L V8 Godzilla engine that is offered on the current model.

DEVCT is an engine timing technique in which the intake and exhaust strokes are equally phase-shifted in relation to crankshaft position at any given time. This configuration helps improve fuel economy by essentially running the engine at part-load under certain operating conditions since operation is kept as efficient as possible. This is accomplished by using electronically controlled hydraulic valves that direct the high-pressure flow of engine oil into the camshaft phaser cavity, changing the valve timing by slightly rotating the camshaft depending on RPM and engine load.

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I bet one crisp dollar that the 6.8 will be coupled to a Powerboost system similar to the 3.5 Powerboost. 
 

 

I know I know you heard me pining for that combination in the Raptor R. No such luck. 
 

 

I can’t think of a more dynamite combination of a brawny V8 given the opportunity to get diesel like fuel mileage while at the same time becoming the ultimate work truck/over lander/ race car or toy hauler. 
 

What if? What if Ford gives us an F250/350 with all that capability?

 

Not only that an electrified Super Duty will be able to skirt that California ban on ICE vehicle sales. 

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I don't think a Powerboost/hybrid Super Duty is in the cards.  For one thing hybirds do not 'skirt' the eventual ICE ban at all.  I agree such a truck would be interesting though.

 

I will be very surprised if the 6.8L is nothing more than a slightly smaller 7.3L, if it is I can see no reason for it.  I expect it will feature some technological advance, be it AFM/cylinder modulation or maybe dual (port/direct) injection.

 

Another thought is the 6.8L will simply be an aluminum block 7.3L.  Slightly smaller displacement to give it thicker cylinder walls.

Edited by 7Mary3

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I honestly don't think we will ever see a 6.8L Godzilla V8....I believe that ship has sailed. I hope I am wrong.

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2 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

I don't think a Powerboost/hybrid Super Duty is in the cards.  For one thing hybirds do not 'skirt' the eventual ICE ban at all.  I agree such a truck would be interesting though.

 

I will be very surprised if the 6.8L is nothing more than a slightly smaller 7.3L, if it is I can see no reason for it.  I expect it will feature some technological advance, be it AFM/cylinder modulation or maybe dual (port/direct) injection.

 

Another thought is the 6.8L will simply be an aluminum block 7.3L.  Slightly smaller displacement to give it thicker cylinder walls.

A couple things here. The block is made out of iron on the 6.8. I’m almost certain of that. 
 

Second, as I came to discover from a talk on TFL it is an actual fact that an electrified vehicle like a hybrid will be legal in post ICE California. 
 

For how long that’s another matter. 
 

See the thing is lots of F250’s and 350’s are sold for consumer use which would give Ford a huge incentive to offer an “electrified” Super Duty. 

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1 hour ago, twintornados said:

I honestly don't think we will ever see a 6.8L Godzilla V8....I believe that ship has sailed. I hope I am wrong.

You will see a 6.8 Godzilla 

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Also 7Mary3 what makes you think the cylinder walls in a 7.3 aren’t thick?

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2 hours ago, twintornados said:

I honestly don't think we will ever see a 6.8L Godzilla V8....I believe that ship has sailed. I hope I am wrong.

The 2023 Super Duty is being introduced Sept 27. We should know then. 

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2 hours ago, Stray Kat said:

Also 7Mary3 what makes you think the cylinder walls in a 7.3 aren’t thick?

Well said…

There was a good shot of the block with top deck cut showing the cylinders below

 

 

BFFAA135-BD9D-44CC-ADC5-96C65DCCB0C5.webp

Edited by jpd80

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Playing around with some data and working out possible 6.8 torque figures,

just a thumbnail based on some 6.2 & 7.3 data but makes for an interesting 

conversation about a bigger slightly more agricultural engine that would seem

more at home in an F250 than the OHC VCT 6.2…….this is about torque not horsepower.
 

F250 torque

RPM………….6.2 V8…………..7.3 V8……………6.8 V8 (calculated from 7.3)

1,500……..……300………………335………………..312

2,000…………..355…….……….390…………………360

2,500……………385………………425………………..395

3,000……………410………………445………………..414

3,500……………420……….…….460………………..428

4,000……….….430…………..….475………….…….442

4,500…………..420………………470…………………437

5,000…………..400………………450…………………419

5,500…………..370………………410………………..381

 

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/curve/2021/3068315/ford_f-250_super_duty_4x2_super_cab_swb_6_2-liter_v-8.html
 

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/curve/2021/3067955/ford_f-250_super_duty_4x2_crew_cab_swb_7_3-liter_v-8.html

 

 

 

Edited by jpd80

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13 hours ago, twintornados said:

I honestly don't think we will ever see a 6.8L Godzilla V8....I believe that ship has sailed. I hope I am wrong.

There's apparently a business case for the 6.2 in the SuperDuty or they'd have dropped it like a hot rock when they axed it from the F-150. Assuming that's true, there's a better business case for consolidating two engine lines into one, but who knows what'll happen.

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Sometimes, UAW contracts limit what companies can do to optimize their cost structure.

Continuation  of the 6.2 may be one of these items until contract runs out or replacements are found or plant gets closed.

Seems that the 6.2 SOC V8 was practically dead on arrival as IC engines go.

The 6.8 is Ford’s answer to the GM 6.6 V8 and maybe nothing more.

It would be easy to do a 5.8 version of the Coyote 5.0 at about 600 hp for Mustang.

edselford

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2 hours ago, edselford said:

 

It would be easy to do a 5.8 version of the Coyote 5.0 at about 600 hp for Mustang.

 

I'm going to assume it would need new heads and it would be too wide to fit into a Mustang at that point. 

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2 hours ago, edselford said:

Sometimes, UAW contracts limit what companies can do to optimize their cost structure.

Continuation  of the 6.2 may be one of these items until contract runs out or replacements are found or plant gets closed.

Seems that the 6.2 SOC V8 was practically dead on arrival as IC engines go.

The 6.8 is Ford’s answer to the GM 6.6 V8 and maybe nothing more.

It would be easy to do a 5.8 version of the Coyote 5.0 at about 600 hp for Mustang.

edselford


They do things that aren't outlined in the contract all the time. Remember the twice announced "electric and autonomous vehicle center" at flat rock? That was never officially part of any UAW agreement. 

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2 hours ago, edselford said:

Sometimes, UAW contracts limit what companies can do to optimize their cost structure.

Continuation  of the 6.2 may be one of these items until contract runs out or replacements are found or plant gets closed.

Seems that the 6.2 SOC V8 was practically dead on arrival as IC engines go.

The 6.8 is Ford’s answer to the GM 6.6 V8 and maybe nothing more.

It would be easy to do a 5.8 version of the Coyote 5.0 at about 600 hp for Mustang.

edselford

It amazes me that some say it is not going to happen when they have in fact announced it!  As  I said like a week ago.....

Assuming Ram and GM sales appeal to a large number of buyers who want gas but also the simplicity that gives them a comfort level over a complicated OHC engine regardless if that comfort level is justified....

 

Then the 6.8 would do well in 150 and the base 250 GVW ratings.  It would be the absolute "king" when it came to capability and would better both the Ram and GM gas offerings and I think would keep a lot of defections to those brands in check.

And to those who  say.."150 is the leader -look at the numbers", I say "look over your shoulder, the other guys seem to be gaining ground".

 

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40 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

It amazes me that some say it is not going to happen when they have in fact announced it!  As  I said like a week ago.....

Assuming Ram and GM sales appeal to a large number of buyers who want gas but also the simplicity that gives them a comfort level over a complicated OHC engine regardless if that comfort level is justified....

 

Then the 6.8 would do well in 150 and the base 250 GVW ratings.  It would be the absolute "king" when it came to capability and would better both the Ram and GM gas offerings and I think would keep a lot of defections to those brands in check.

And to those who  say.."150 is the leader -look at the numbers", I say "look over your shoulder, the other guys seem to be gaining ground".

 

 

Regarding F150, the (rumored) port-injected 6.8 won't do anything a 3.5 EB won't and there's always the Raptor HiPO 3.5 ready to go.

 

The 6.8 will add nose weight and return much worse fuel economy in the EPA test loop even if "real world" towing mileage is somewhat comparable... that really doesn't matter for half-ton, IMO.  

 

    

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I guess we will have to Wait to see if 6.8 only has port injection????

I do not disagree with your statements on RAM, or 6.8 in F150.

RAM has been the big winner so far based on volume increases versus just a few years ago.

At first, I thought the volume was coming out of Chevy/GMC. It may warrant a closer look with F150 volumes too.

Also before the Coyote 5.0 V8 came out, there was a prior generation 5.8 DOC V8 in the Mustang., talk deck 5.4 bored out to 93.5mm in aluminum with PWT bore coating.

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17 hours ago, Stray Kat said:

Also 7Mary3 what makes you think the cylinder walls in a 7.3 aren’t thick?

 

They are not.  First video at 13:25  Brian Wolfe states .020" is the maximum overbore he has tried.  Second video shows the tight bore spacing and cooling slots at 2:29 and shows a cut block at 8:58.  If I had to guess I would say Ford is using some 6.2L tooling to produce the 7.3L and that dictated the bore spacing.  If Ford was to make an aluminum Godzilla I would think they would have to tighten up the bore to accommodate iron sleeves.  A PWT coating might require thicker cylinder walls as well.    

 

 

Edited by 7Mary3

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On 9/14/2022 at 1:57 PM, SoonerLS said:

It doesn't make sense to build an identical engine with reduced displacement (although Ford does have the 400/351M in its history), but if you can use a smaller block with a lot of shared components, you get an engine that's maybe only marginally less expensive than the 7.3, but significantly less expensive than the 6.2 it'll replace--and it will at least have the potential of being used in the F-150 and Mustang. It's kind of the inverse of the 302/351 Windsors, where the 351 came from the 302. 

 

If it's going in the SuperDuty, chances of it having an aluminum block would seem very low, although a variant for F-150 and/or Mustang would almost require one. 

 I see this more along the lines of the old 385 series big blocks. The 429 and 460 shared the same bore size but used different crankshaft stroke dimensions. I also don't think we can dismiss the fact that the 6.2L Boss uses the same bore spacing and main bearing journal sizes as the 7.3L Godzilla. It would seem to be almost too easy to say you could simply use the 6.2 crank in a 7.3 block. BTW, that does result in 6.8L of displacement assuming you do not change the bore diameter of the 7.3 block. The only argument against a 6.8L in that configuration might be that big bore/short stroke engines have historically not been the best way to produce good low rpm torque which is what you would probably prefer for a truck application. 

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1 hour ago, ESP08 said:

 

Regarding F150, the (rumored) port-injected 6.8 won't do anything a 3.5 EB won't and there's always the Raptor HiPO 3.5 ready to go.

 

The 6.8 will add nose weight and return much worse fuel economy in the EPA test loop even if "real world" towing mileage is somewhat comparable... that really doesn't matter for half-ton, IMO.  

 

    

No argument.  I never said the 3.5 was NOT capable.  My point is that many diehards have an aversion to complicated engines. A pushrod whether it is by design more durable or not, to many is a less complicated motor-"therefore it has to  be more durable".  Regardless if it is  or isn't, we are talking perception and from a marketing point of view that is what counts IMO.  And you can't ignore the fact that a pushrod design has to  be less costly from a manufacturing viewpoint

 

Back to the 3.5, my oldest has a '15 150 3.5.  Pulls a 30' box trailer and a 23' Mako.  Truck has over 145m on it.   I  drove it the other day and again, just like my old SHO, cruising on secondary  roads the tach is reading like  1200-1500!  Again my argument IS the 6.8 will appeal to a lot of buyers who are turned off by an OHC V-8.  And GM and Ram offer good alternatives,

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