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Edge/Nautilus Dead for '23

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1 hour ago, akirby said:

Despite the ST being only 10% of sales now there are a lot of ST and Sport owners who are passionate about their Edges and performance on the 2.7Leb.

 

Ford Edge is not a vehicle that evokes any sort of passion. In ST or Sport form, it's quick but still boring.

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14 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Ford Edge is not a vehicle that evokes any sort of passion. In ST or Sport form, it's quick but still boring.


Edge forum members who actually own and modify them say differently.

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3 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Ford Edge is not a vehicle that evokes any sort of passion. In ST or Sport form, it's quick but still boring.

 

So you don't like it, therefore boring and doesn't evoke passion.

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5 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Ford Edge is not a vehicle that evokes any sort of passion. In ST or Sport form, it's quick but still boring.

My wife loves her Edge. 

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7 hours ago, akirby said:


Despite the ST being only 10% of sales now there are a lot of ST and Sport owners who are passionate about their Edges and performance on the 2.7Leb.  A smaller Explorer would have solved that problem but Ford doesn’t seem to want to continue the 2.7L V6 in transverse form with C2 maxing out at 2.3L in the Corsair.

The ST is developed and available, so Ford will probably continue selling it for as long as practical.

I anticipate that Edge sales will putter along until the plant shuts down for change over.

Similarly, I don’t see Ford widening Edge, it’s just easier and less costly to do nothing now and let

the BEVs roll in and have improved space as a key feature.

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3 hours ago, rmc523 said:

So you don't like it, therefore boring and doesn't evoke passion.

 

No sir. I like Ford Edge, it works well as an appliance like crossover vehicle. Edge is very competent and very unassuming, and one of Ford's better products in that respect.

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25 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

No sir. I like Ford Edge, it works well as an appliance like crossover vehicle. Edge is very competent and very unassuming, and one of Ford's better products in that respect.

 

Quite the left handed compliment...

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35 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

No sir. I like Ford Edge, it works well as an appliance like crossover vehicle. Edge is very competent and very unassuming, and one of Ford's better products in that respect.

 

Since all the other manufacturers have performance variants of their midsize crossovers......oh, they don't.

 

I considered the Edge Sport and later the ST with the refresh, but am going with Bronco instead.  I liked performance of Edge ST, but I wanted something more unique style wise (I have a Flex, so I like something different from the crowd).  I think "appliance" is a bridge too far to describe Edge, though.

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On 9/13/2021 at 10:36 PM, akirby said:


Actually most people who are looking at Edges don’t want 3 rows or the bigger vehicle regardless of price.

On the Lincoln side of things, that is exactly my quandary. Corsair's too small, I do not want 3 rows, and currently can't consider a BEV (no overnight charging availability). Therefore, when my Nautilus lease is done, I'll either be buying it out or buying (or leasing) a MB GLE or Genesis GV80.

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16 hours ago, rmc523 said:

I think "appliance" is a bridge too far to describe Edge, though.

 

2nd gen Ford Edge is a crossover that gets people and their stuff from Point A to Point B comfortably, safely, and with minimum of fuss. With Sport or ST models, quickly too. Passion or excitement is not part of the experience though, either when looking at the vehicle or driving it. That's what makes Edge work well as an appliance.

Edited by rperez817

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40 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

2nd gen Ford Edge is a crossover that gets people and their stuff from Point A to Point B comfortably, safely, and with minimum of fuss. With Sport or ST models, quickly too. Passion or excitement is not part of the experience though, either when looking at the vehicle or driving it. That's what makes Edge work well as an appliance.


You don’t get to define what other people find exciting so knock it off.

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4 hours ago, akirby said:


You don’t get to define what other people find exciting so knock it off.

Exactly, what is passion anyway? My family takes care of our explorer, we care enough about it to change the oil every 1,500-2,000 miles, hand wash it frequently etc. Not to mention we're thinking about buying some aftermarket parts for it. So while it clearly isn't a traditional enthusiasts car, my family is still clearly passionate about it, and view it as being far more than just an appliance. Is my explorer a more passionate product then a mustang that rots in a garage neglected for 50 years? It's debatable, but you could argue yes, yes it is. Passion is relative in most instances. Many people are passionate about jobs that other people would hate.

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5 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

2nd gen Ford Edge is a crossover that gets people and their stuff from Point A to Point B comfortably, safely, and with minimum of fuss. With Sport or ST models, quickly too. Passion or excitement is not part of the experience though, either when looking at the vehicle or driving it. That's what makes Edge work well as an appliance.

I mean, it is a pretty sharp looking suv (so temped to say it looks edgy, but I'll refrain from using puns, but I kinda just did). Plus the edge st can probably keep up with a mustang V6 from just a few years ago, and handle quite well for what it is. I'd argue that in st trim at least, the edge is a passion product. It appeals to people who are passionate enough about cars to want something sporty, yet need the practicality of a crossover.

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15 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

I mean, it is a pretty sharp looking suv (so temped to say it looks edgy, but I'll refrain from using puns, but I kinda just did). Plus the edge st can probably keep up with a mustang V6 from just a few years ago, and handle quite well for what it is. I'd argue that in st trim at least, the edge is a passion product. It appeals to people who are passionate enough about cars to want something sporty, yet need the practicality of a crossover.

The Edge is a solid product looks better than the Escape to me!!  I’m biased though I make them, too bad Ford is abandoning ship on them! They should at least bring the Evos to N/A since they’re killing the Edge. The Evos is a stellar looking product. I thinking the ST LINE Edges and Titanium’s look great. Ford is just intentionally killing the product since it has no future in their line up with there glut of crossovers. 

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19 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

The Edge is a solid product looks better than the Escape to me!!  I’m biased though I make them, too bad Ford is abandoning ship on them! They should at least bring the Evos to N/A since they’re killing the Edge. The Evos is a stellar looking product. I thinking the ST LINE Edges and Titanium’s look great. Ford is just intentionally killing the product since it has no future in their line up with there glut of crossovers. 

 

What glut of crossovers? GM and Jeep have a glut of crossovers, but not Ford. Now with Edge and Ecosport with no future, even less. Nothing so far in subcompact  segment to compete with Trax, Trailblazer, and Renegade. And nothing to compete with the Blazer and Grand Cherokee once Edge is gone.

 

I know Ford has the Mach E now, but sales volume is about 2,000/month. Best month is 3,000. Not enough to make up loss of Edge. Ford needs more CUVs, not less. It's now pickups, vans, and CUVs only for Ford.

 

So Ford needs a competitive CUV in every segment. Ecosport is not competitive. Again, Maverick is not a CUV. Most CUV buyers like myself are not interested in an open pickup bed, even with 4 doors. Now that could be proven wrong down the road IF sales are super robust for Maverick and Santa Fe Cruz. But that remains to be seen.

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6 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

2nd gen Ford Edge is a crossover that gets people and their stuff from Point A to Point B comfortably, safely, and with minimum of fuss. With Sport or ST models, quickly too. Passion or excitement is not part of the experience though, either when looking at the vehicle or driving it. That's what makes Edge work well as an appliance.

 

You can say that about just about any car.

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10 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

So Ford needs a competitive CUV in every segment. 


But why?  Even if they aren’t profitable and other vehicles are?

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35 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

You can say that about just about any car.

 

Not the 2 ST passenger cars that Ford previously offered in the U.S. market (Fiesta and Focus). Those cars had a raw, fun to drive demeanor, both on public roads and in a track environment. That's something that goes beyond "automobile as an appliance".

 

Edge ST by contrast is about practicality, not athleticism.

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39 minutes ago, akirby said:


But why?  Even if they aren’t profitable and other vehicles are?

 

So a base price $20,000 Maverick is profitable with more complicated hybrid powertrain, but a Puma in that price range would not using 1.5 L turbo? Give that engine to the Puma and keep the Maverick powertrain for Escape and BS. So Maverick and Puma become the most affordable nameplates giving the Koreans a run for their money. Maverick and Puma in $20,000-$30,000 price range and Escape/BS in $30,000-$40,000 price range. Problem solved :).

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1 hour ago, akirby said:


But why?  Even if they aren’t profitable and other vehicles are?

 

I'm going to give a bit of push back here.  I get what you're saying, but Ford's been cutting to profitability for decades.  We are seeing additional products coming, but that always seems to be the case - just when they get things sorted out, they blow it up and start over again.  I know the whole argument of starting people at the bottom of the lineup and moving them up as they get older is debatable, but I do think there's something too that.  If they cut out too many segments, that's not good.

 

27 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Not the 2 ST passenger cars that Ford previously offered in the U.S. market (Fiesta and Focus). Those cars had a raw, fun to drive demeanor, both on public roads and in a track environment. That's something that goes beyond "automobile as an appliance".

 

Edge ST by contrast is about practicality, not athleticism.

 

Really not giving up are you lol.  The regular Fiesta and Focus are definitely appliance cars.  The ST models aren't.  Not sure why that can't apply to Edge too.  Is it applicable to Explorer as well?

 

19 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 

So a base price $20,000 Maverick is profitable with more complicated hybrid powertrain, but a Puma in that price range would not using 1.5 L turbo? Give that engine to the Puma and keep the Maverick powertrain for Escape and BS. So Maverick and Puma become the most affordable nameplates giving the Koreans a run for their money. Maverick and Puma in $20,000-$30,000 price range and Escape/BS in $30,000-$40,000 price range. Problem solved :).

 

I think the big component here is production space, as we've discussed.  Margins are likely slim down at that price level, and throwing in European production and shipping likely kills that, with there not being room at any NA plants for it.

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2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

What glut of crossovers? GM and Jeep have a glut of crossovers, but not Ford. Now with Edge and Ecosport with no future, even less. Nothing so far in subcompact  segment to compete with Trax, Trailblazer, and Renegade. And nothing to compete with the Blazer and Grand Cherokee once Edge is gone.

 

I know Ford has the Mach E now, but sales volume is about 2,000/month. Best month is 3,000. Not enough to make up loss of Edge. Ford needs more CUVs, not less. It's now pickups, vans, and CUVs only for Ford.

 

So Ford needs a competitive CUV in every segment. Ecosport is not competitive. Again, Maverick is not a CUV. Most CUV buyers like myself are not interested in an open pickup bed, even with 4 doors. Now that could be proven wrong down the road IF sales are super robust for Maverick and Santa Fe Cruz. But that remains to be seen.

What are they gonna replace them with?? EVs right??? So they don’t have a glut but they’re getting rid of edge and stupid Ecosport. What’s coming EVs, maybe fusion active puma who the fuck knows right?? They have to replace those with something. 

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

I'm going to give a bit of push back here.  I get what you're saying, but Ford's been cutting to profitability for decades.  We are seeing additional products coming, but that always seems to be the case - just when they get things sorted out, they blow it up and start over again.  I know the whole argument of starting people at the bottom of the lineup and moving them up as they get older is debatable, but I do think there's something too that.  If they cut out too many segments, that's not good.


I agree with the starting over and throwing away previous stuff - the entire cd4 program was a disaster from that perspective.

 

But Ford is following through replacing products - Maverick and Bronco Sport and Mach-E.  I’d be shocked if the new BEVs fall through.

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1 hour ago, FordBuyer said:

 

So a base price $20,000 Maverick is profitable with more complicated hybrid powertrain, but a Puma in that price range would not using 1.5 L turbo? Give that engine to the Puma and keep the Maverick powertrain for Escape and BS. So Maverick and Puma become the most affordable nameplates giving the Koreans a run for their money. Maverick and Puma in $20,000-$30,000 price range and Escape/BS in $30,000-$40,000 price range. Problem solved :).


Maverick and Bronco Sport are unique and have very little direct competition.  That keeps incentives low or non existent.  There is nothing special about a Puma and it would end up competing on price and that’s a recipe for low profit.

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38 minutes ago, akirby said:


Maverick and Bronco Sport are unique and have very little direct competition.  That keeps incentives low or non existent.  There is nothing special about a Puma and it would end up competing on price and that’s a recipe for low profit.

How do you feel about that Chinese Evos that likely won’t see the light of day?? That would be nice in North America. Maverick is great and I like the bronco sport it’s solid  it just reminds me of original escape although it’s better than that obviously.

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13 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

How do you feel about that Chinese Evos that likely won’t see the light of day?? That would be nice in North America. Maverick is great and I like the bronco sport it’s solid  it just reminds me of original escape although it’s better than that obviously.


I like it and think it would do ok.  But something would have to get compromised to do it and Ford apparently doesn’t think it’s worth it.

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